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javeajag
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21 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

I accept that there are good & bad business people out there - but currently Im not convinced we have anywhere near replaced the Business Acumen of Billy Allan - Greig Brown and David Beattie or there Contacts - and in a small Club having experience is key 

A good grasp of the language would be essential one would have thought, in business that is  or have you suffered from predictive text angst like me

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19 hours ago, kevin energy said:

I Would lend to Thistle with no interest

I would give to thistle. No lending. No loaning. Just give it. Anonymously so as to avoid hassle.

JJ makes unfair point about prop co, they were at the helm during faily good times, but that was it. THEY DID NOT take us to premier nor to top 6. They just happened to be there when it happened. With the logic of Jordan hill we should celebrate Miller Reid, Jim Oliver, brown mcmaster.

Simple fact is all people in business are in it to make money. End of. Anyone who suggests they are not is imho a liar liar pants on fire

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1 hour ago, Thistleberight said:

I would give to thistle. No lending. No loaning. Just give it. Anonymously so as to avoid hassle.

JJ makes unfair point about prop co, they were at the helm during faily good times, but that was it. THEY DID NOT take us to premier nor to top 6. They just happened to be there when it happened. With the logic of Jordan hill we should celebrate Miller Reid, Jim Oliver, brown mcmaster.

Simple fact is all people in business are in it to make money. End of. Anyone who suggests they are not is imho a liar liar pants on fire

You are talking complete nonsense - when they took over we were in dire financial straights - running out of cash - there was a presentation to circa 200 Fans in the Aitken Suite going through the detial - the same people took us from the First Divsion to Top 6 Premier - thats a statement of fact - in addition the put in significant cash injections via there own & business connections - again a statement of fact - I accept Propco was wrong - but you cant detract from the position they took over from where they left us -your statement regards them "happening to be there " is nonsense  

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2 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

You are talking complete nonsense - when they took over we were in dire financial straights - running out of cash - there was a presentation to circa 200 Fans in the Aitken Suite going through the detial - the same people took us from the First Divsion to Top 6 Premier - thats a statement of fact - in addition the put in significant cash injections via there own & business connections - again a statement of fact - I accept Propco was wrong - but you cant detract from the position they took over from where they left us -your statement regards them "happening to be there " is nonsense  

Sorry, typing error unfair was supposed to be fair, fair point you were making. It completely changed the tone of the post. 

 

Yes I, like many others present at that time know exactly what happened, exactly the position we were in, exactly what was needed. Like you I was present during several meetings designed to get fans to buy in to save the club and associated with one local business owner who was right in the mix with the rest of them. As a fan I am very grateful for all they did, and proud that I and many other "ordinary" fans dug deep for the cause. Yes, dug deep, many gave out money they never expected not wanted to see again as long as it saved their beloved club.

Then again, there were others who saw an opportunity. An opportunity to save "their club" granted, but my point was that those same people were/are business people and also saw potential for profit. That's what business is. That's the whole point of a business person surely, to make money  if you think otherwise jordanhill then imo you are very naive, and I suspect you are not naive.

To my other point, those business men, cos they were all men, did not coach. They did not manage. They did not play ergo they did not win any matches. They might, nae, they did create a situation, or were part of the solution to create a situation where success could be achieved but don't suggest it was because of them we had success on the pitch. Successful business model for sure. And propco are charlatans no matter what you suggest. Scotty is spot on in his assessment of them.

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On 4/10/2019 at 1:45 PM, Thistleberight said:

I would give to thistle. No lending. No loaning. Just give it. Anonymously so as to avoid hassle.

JJ makes unfair point about prop co, they were at the helm during faily good times, but that was it. THEY DID NOT take us to premier nor to top 6. They just happened to be there when it happened. With the logic of Jordan hill we should celebrate Miller Reid, Jim Oliver, brown mcmaster.

Simple fact is all people in business are in it to make money. End of. Anyone who suggests they are not is imho a liar liar pants on fire

Jim Oliver invested a fortune into the club, took us from nowhere and a part-time team playing at a ramshackle run down Firhill to premier league, full time in a completely re-vamped stadium and also wrote of a huge debt the club owed him during Save The Jags, without that we wouldn’t have a club today. He’s our honorary chairman for a reason, yet our current have never invited him to the club.

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I've heard it all now. Jim Oliver when he was at the helm was hugely unpopular. A few of you are rewriting history here. 

And also for Norge to claim we have went back over a decade off the park? What absolute nonsense. I like to read some of Norge's posts as he is usually one of the most knowledgeable guys on here but he is WAY off the mark with that assertion. Thistle have came a long way since the Save the Jags days and we are light years ahead now. 

Again it seems people are having a go at Jacqui Low who, in my opinion, hasn't done a lot wrong. Yes her communication could be better after all of her promises but the level of criticism she takes is laughable compared to other chairmen in years gone by. 

 

Anyway, Happy birthday to Gary Caldwell! 

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I may be wrong, but I feel some people's thoughts about the board depends on how the team is doing on the park. Team doing well,means the board have the right man in charge, fans happy,good crowds. Team doing badly the board have the wrong man in charge crowds probably not good. Our current board have brought in a manager who has totally failed his main objective, getting promotion and could lead us to a relegation instead. We were also told there would be monthly updates. As far as I know we have had known this year. So to put it mildly not the best start for this current regime.

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30 minutes ago, AlwaysOutnumbered... said:

I've heard it all now. Jim Oliver when he was at the helm was hugely unpopular. A few of you are rewriting history here. 

And also for Norge to claim we have went back over a decade off the park? What absolute nonsense. I like to read some of Norge's posts as he is usually one of the most knowledgeable guys on here but he is WAY off the mark with that assertion. Thistle have came a long way since the Save the Jags days and we are light years ahead now. 

Again it seems people are having a go at Jacqui Low who, in my opinion, hasn't done a lot wrong. Yes her communication could be better after all of her promises but the level of criticism she takes is laughable compared to other chairmen in years gone by. 

 

Anyway, Happy birthday to Gary Caldwell! 

I was with you for Para's 1 and 2. Jlow gets the criticism she deserves on here. Her and her boards performance since taking over has been very very poor, as has been recorded by many posts on here. The list is very long Always, to suggest she has done little wrong is, well, wrong

 

Happy birthday feck all. I'll wish him well when he gets us success or leaves

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2 hours ago, AlwaysOutnumbered... said:

I've heard it all now. Jim Oliver when he was at the helm was hugely unpopular. A few of you are rewriting history here. 

And also for Norge to claim we have went back over a decade off the park? What absolute nonsense. I like to read some of Norge's posts as he is usually one of the most knowledgeable guys on here but he is WAY off the mark with that assertion. Thistle have came a long way since the Save the Jags days and we are light years ahead now. 

Again it seems people are having a go at Jacqui Low who, in my opinion, hasn't done a lot wrong. Yes her communication could be better after all of her promises but the level of criticism she takes is laughable compared to other chairmen in years gone by. 

 

Anyway, Happy birthday to Gary Caldwell! 

Oliver May not have been popular and I’m old enough to remember the chants from the Shed, the subsequent letter from the board to the “boo boys” and the response from the shed, but he invested in us, he professionalized the running and appearance of the club.

A decade ago we had just exited the bunnet era and Mccall had the team, this was the start of the rise of Thistle that peaked May 2017 and has been going down quickly since then.

A decade ago the board was transitioning from Cowan , Hughes etc with poor communication and little engagement operating at a loss onto the tenure of Allan, Beattie etc, and they brought us financial stability and safety prior to the Weirs money.

So yes I’d say we’re back to where we were a decade ago.

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On 4/12/2019 at 3:54 PM, Norgethistle said:

Oliver May not have been popular and I’m old enough to remember the chants from the Shed, the subsequent letter from the board to the “boo boys” and the response from the shed, but he invested in us, he professionalized the running and appearance of the club.

A decade ago we had just exited the bunnet era and Mccall had the team, this was the start of the rise of Thistle that peaked May 2017 and has been going down quickly since then.

A decade ago the board was transitioning from Cowan , Hughes etc with poor communication and little engagement operating at a loss onto the tenure of Allan, Beattie etc, and they brought us financial stability and safety prior to the Weirs money.

So yes I’d say we’re back to where we were a decade ago.

Fair point very well made. Let's not forget the one armed lesbian saxophone player comment towards, was it chairman gill. Very embarrassing at the time, he'd get absolutely slaughtered today. So he was both good and bad.

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On 4/10/2019 at 8:57 PM, javeajag said:

Propco must rank as one of the poorest investments ever 

Absolutely spot on.

What kind of 'investor' would substantially over pay for an immovable liability, incapable of achieving any kind of planning permission and tie up his capital for an indefinite period on the 'promise' (with no guarantees) of an insignificant return with absolutely no liquidity or prospect of ever being able to recall the capital at any time in the future?

I doubt that anyone ever has so much money that they just want to give it away regardless of how well off other people may consider them to be.  Receiving 'free money' makes the recipient careless and reckless (just look at what governments do with other people's freely given money).  There should always be a consequence and that drives responsibility.

Right deal or wrong deal, it's the deal that was made at the time and I'd wager that it ranks right up there alongside the poorest investments those guys have made with their own money.

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9 hours ago, AlgarveJag said:

Absolutely spot on.

What kind of 'investor' would substantially over pay for an immovable liability, incapable of achieving any kind of planning permission and tie up his capital for an indefinite period on the 'promise' (with no guarantees) of an insignificant return with absolutely no liquidity or prospect of ever being able to recall the capital at any time in the future?

I doubt that anyone ever has so much money that they just want to give it away regardless of how well off other people may consider them to be.  Receiving 'free money' makes the recipient careless and reckless (just look at what governments do with other people's freely given money).  There should always be a consequence and that drives responsibility.

Right deal or wrong deal, it's the deal that was made at the time and I'd wager that it ranks right up there alongside the poorest investments those guys have made with their own money.

Maybe that is all accurate. Maybe the guys had enough money and wanted to do something to keep the club afloat, knowing full well that it wasn't an investment likely to bring much or any financial gain.

Many of us have bought shares in PTFC. Nobody would call it an investment.

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7 hours ago, Jaggernaut said:

Maybe that is all accurate. Maybe the guys had enough money and wanted to do something to keep the club afloat, knowing full well that it wasn't an investment likely to bring much or any financial gain.

Many of us have bought shares in PTFC. Nobody would call it an investment.

'Nail' and 'Head', Jaggernaut!

Supporters like you buy shares that they will never sell and season tickets that they seldom use and others provide capital for projects like Propco or a new training ground on extremely favourable terms (writing off loans at other times) when there is a multitude of better things they could be doing with their money if they were looking for an 'investment'.  

All of these people give selflessly and certainly don't deserve to be viewed as pariahs or sharks.

Its disrespectful to suggest otherwise of fellow supporters.

We buy 50:50 tickets knowing that we are donating funds to the club but are we less worthy if we win and accept the prize?  I think not!

 

 

Online Dictionary Definition "INVESTMENT" - "a thing that is worth buying because it may become profitable or more valuable in the future"

 

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Not sure if there’s another thread on this but...

what haapened to the promised ongoing communication updates we were promised by Low back in Dec? Maybe I missed them or is she hiding? Doesn’t exactly fill me with a sense of trust going forward as we enter what might be a very difficult period for the club..,

I was at hospitality for the Dundee Utd game and asked GB what was the latest regarding the training ground. He said we’d “hit the buffers” with the council. He said it was nothing to do with finances or our league position. Unfortunately others were clamouring for his attention and I didn’t get the opportunity to ask more. I’ve always found Gerry to be very approachable but I really think the board have cocked up with their “ongoing communication “ with the fans and he unfortunately has to take some of the blame. 

If we go down this season then the board (not for the first time in my near 50 years supporting the club) will have p•ssed some goodwill up the wall. 

Just to add insult to injury, I emailed the club about buying a couple of tiles. Still waiting for a reply two months later.. must be awash with funds..

all in all, really makes me wonder about buying another ST, or stopping my monthly CF, half time tickets, programme, shop merchandise, hospitality... just saying f•ck it, fed up being treated like a fool..

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The Propco investment wasn’t ever meant to be a long term with little return investment. It was expected that planning permission would be given and the land would quickly be turned around, ensuring relatively quick sale of flats and return on investment. That the deal hit the buffers is a matter of circumstances (and terrible planning) rather than the original investment plan.

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4 hours ago, JAG1970 said:

Not sure if there’s another thread on this but...

what haapened to the promised ongoing communication updates we were promised by Low back in Dec? Maybe I missed them or is she hiding? Doesn’t exactly fill me with a sense of trust going forward as we enter what might be a very difficult period for the club..,

I was at hospitality for the Dundee Utd game and asked GB what was the latest regarding the training ground. He said we’d “hit the buffers” with the council. He said it was nothing to do with finances or our league position. Unfortunately others were clamouring for his attention and I didn’t get the opportunity to ask more. I’ve always found Gerry to be very approachable but I really think the board have cocked up with their “ongoing communication “ with the fans and he unfortunately has to take some of the blame. 

If we go down this season then the board (not for the first time in my near 50 years supporting the club) will have p•ssed some goodwill up the wall. 

Just to add insult to injury, I emailed the club about buying a couple of tiles. Still waiting for a reply two months later.. must be awash with funds..

all in all, really makes me wonder about buying another ST, or stopping my monthly CF, half time tickets, programme, shop merchandise, hospitality... just saying f•ck it, fed up being treated like a fool..

Unfortuneately you are not the only one with the same feelings,i have nearly 60 years of supporting this club and they are severely trying my patience,i don't think that anyone on the Board are intending to do our club  harm,its just they are becoming increasingly apart from the support.

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9 hours ago, AlgarveJag said:

'Nail' and 'Head', Jaggernaut!

Supporters like you buy shares that they will never sell and season tickets that they seldom use and others provide capital for projects like Propco or a new training ground on extremely favourable terms (writing off loans at other times) when there is a multitude of better things they could be doing with their money if they were looking for an 'investment'.  

All of these people give selflessly and certainly don't deserve to be viewed as pariahs or sharks.

Its disrespectful to suggest otherwise of fellow supporters.

We buy 50:50 tickets knowing that we are donating funds to the club but are we less worthy if we win and accept the prize?  I think not!

 

 

Online Dictionary Definition "INVESTMENT" - "a thing that is worth buying because it may become profitable or more valuable in the future"

 

You are right AlgarveJag. I’d hate to count up how much I have donated to the Club this season. Season tickets, player sponsorship etc

I even offered to buy shares, not as an investment, but to show my commitment to the Club I love. But apparently the Club has none available to sell. So even when I wanted to give them more, they couldn’t find a mechanism to take it.

Next season I’ll probably use that money on other non-Thistle things, sadly. 

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6 hours ago, JAG1970 said:

all in all, really makes me wonder about buying another ST, or stopping my monthly CF, half time tickets, programme, shop merchandise, hospitality... just saying f•ck it, fed up being treated like a fool..

Sadly this too, for me.

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18 hours ago, falklandal1 said:

Unfortuneately you are not the only one with the same feelings,i have nearly 60 years of supporting this club and they are severely trying my patience,i don't think that anyone on the Board are intending to do our club  harm,its just they are becoming increasingly apart from the support.

Ran outta likes. Agree wholeheartedly with your posts, mirrors my frustration.

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