Third Lanark Posted April 13, 2019 Report Share Posted April 13, 2019 7 minutes ago, Auld Jag said: We didn't get here because of Caldwell. I disagree first 10 games 7 defeats, 5 points if he was an interim manager he would never have got the job with those stats. No doubt since January we have improved vastly. But we still find ourselves at the bottom of the league. If we go down it is Caldwells fault. A double relegation is both managers fault I’d say AJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Col Posted April 13, 2019 Report Share Posted April 13, 2019 4 minutes ago, javeajag said: I can’t agree......if you think the squad Archie left him with is better than the squad we have now your wrong .....it was utter utter pish which is why we brought in so many players which has led to improvement .....we got here because of Archie and the board first of all Totally agree that Archibald’s squad was utter pish. But funny how you mention improvement on the day we hit bottom spot in the league. There have been too many disappointments with Caldwell - draws against Falkirk, capitulation against Ross County when 2 goals up, a draw with Dunfermline, abject performances, mind boggling lineups, negative tactics. And his signings haven’t been that much better than AA - Harkins? Mansell? He took over with 27 games of the season left and has taken us to the bottom of the league and potentially League 1. Thats not improvement in my eyes - it’s further proof that he’s a serial loser and should never have been anywhere near Firhill. If we go down, it’s his fault and the BoD. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Third Lanark Posted April 13, 2019 Report Share Posted April 13, 2019 16 minutes ago, Big Col said: The fans have been behind the team since the first day. The team have let us down. The BoD have let us down with the 2 managers they have employed this season. Those 2 managers have let us down with their signings and tactics. We really don’t need to be patronised by telling us to get out and support the team. Out of likes Colin but agree completely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted April 13, 2019 Report Share Posted April 13, 2019 1 minute ago, Big Col said: Totally agree that Archibald’s squad was utter pish. But funny how you mention improvement on the day we hit bottom spot in the league. There have been too many disappointments with Caldwell - draws against Falkirk, capitulation against Ross County when 2 goals up, a draw with Dunfermline, abject performances, mind boggling lineups, negative tactics. And his signings haven’t been that much better than AA - Harkins? Mansell? He took over with 27 games of the season left and has taken us to the bottom of the league and potentially League 1. Thats not improvement in my eyes - it’s further proof that he’s a serial loser and should never have been anywhere near Firhill. If we go down, it’s his fault and the BoD. Our results since January have improved whether they have improved enough we can debate shortly .....if you accept the squad was pish then you logically accept it was unlikely results would improve till the squad changed so your 27 games point is misleading .....if you don’t think Macdonald , Cardle , Anderson , Saunders, McMillan etc aren’t better that then melbourne, Keown, ntwambe etc your on drugs 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted April 13, 2019 Report Share Posted April 13, 2019 19 minutes ago, javeajag said: I can’t agree......if you think the squad Archie left him with is better than the squad we have now your wrong .....it was utter utter pish which is why we brought in so many players which has led to improvement .....we got here because of Archie and the board first of all But we are 2 places lower in the league under Caldwell. Discuss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted April 13, 2019 Report Share Posted April 13, 2019 7 minutes ago, Third Lanark said: Out of likes Colin but agree completely This too @Big Col Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted April 13, 2019 Report Share Posted April 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, sandy said: But we are 2 places lower in the league under Caldwell. Discuss. Sure don’t have Archie as manager , don’t let him assemble as squad of utter dross and we don’t have Caldwell and we aren’t bottom ....discuss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAG1970 Posted April 13, 2019 Report Share Posted April 13, 2019 Yes the team under AA was poor but the board would never have appointed Caldwell if they had known we’d end up bottom with just 4 games to go. We lost too much ground when Caldwell was unable to get more out of what he inherited before January. A shocking run. So his future will be decided on whether the board think the improved results since then sufficiently outweigh his earlier failure. Relegation of course will see him sacked. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld Jag Posted April 13, 2019 Report Share Posted April 13, 2019 29 minutes ago, javeajag said: I can’t agree......if you think the squad Archie left him with is better than the squad we have now your wrong .....it was utter utter pish which is why we brought in so many players which has led to improvement .....we got here because of Archie and the board first of all I did not say the squad Archie left him was better than the current one. I said if he was interim manager and lost 7 out of his first 10 games and only got 5 points in that time,he would not have been given the job. But you can't agree, so you would have given him a 2 year contract with that record. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Col Posted April 13, 2019 Report Share Posted April 13, 2019 13 minutes ago, javeajag said: Our results since January have improved whether they have improved enough we can debate shortly .....if you accept the squad was pish then you logically accept it was unlikely results would improve till the squad changed so your 27 games point is misleading .....if you don’t think Macdonald , Cardle , Anderson , Saunders, McMillan etc aren’t better that then melbourne, Keown, ntwambe etc your on drugs But Caldwell was employed on the basis that he had assessed all the players and knew what to do to Improve them. Which he didn’t. I accept that some of the players he signed have made the squad better than what started the season. But they’ve not been good enough. Roy? Mansell? Harkins? His lineups have been strange at times and in a lot of games you wouldn’t know that Archibald was away. If we go down, it’s down to Caldwell. And the BoD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted April 13, 2019 Report Share Posted April 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, Big Col said: But Caldwell was employed on the basis that he had assessed all the players and knew what to do to Improve them. Which he didn’t. I accept that some of the players he signed have made the squad better than what started the season. But they’ve not been good enough. Roy? Mansell? Harkins? His lineups have been strange at times and in a lot of games you wouldn’t know that Archibald was away. If we go down, it’s down to Caldwell. And the BoD. First of all you don’t what he said about the squad that’s just gossip and hearsay.......pep would have struggled to improve Archie’s squad ......we aren’t down yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Murray Posted April 13, 2019 Report Share Posted April 13, 2019 22 minutes ago, javeajag said: Our results since January have improved whether they have improved enough we can debate shortly .....if you accept the squad was pish then you logically accept it was unlikely results would improve till the squad changed so your 27 games point is misleading .....if you don’t think Macdonald , Cardle , Anderson , Saunders, McMillan etc aren’t better that then melbourne, Keown, ntwambe etc your on drugs You are arguing against the facts - we were clear of the relegation zone when Archie was sacked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted April 13, 2019 Report Share Posted April 13, 2019 6 minutes ago, Auld Jag said: I did not say the squad Archie left him was better than the current one. I said if he was interim manager and lost 7 out of his first 10 games and only got 5 points in that time,he would not have been given the job. But you can't agree, so you would have given him a 2 year contract with that record. Ah so you can predict what I would have done in a hypothetical situation can I have the euro millions numbers for next week ? heres what I would have done ....sack Archie after the Ross County game in February 2018 or sacked him after we got relegated both of which would have probably have avoided all this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted April 13, 2019 Report Share Posted April 13, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Alan Murray said: You are arguing against the facts - we were clear of the relegation zone when Archie was sacked. The issue is always your starting point and end point ......if we end up in ninth does that make Caldwell a success in your logic yes but not in mine.....if we had kept Archie and his squad we woukd have been promoted clearly Edited April 13, 2019 by javeajag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotterJag Posted April 13, 2019 Report Share Posted April 13, 2019 34 minutes ago, javeajag said: Our results since January have improved whether they have improved enough we can debate shortly .....if you accept the squad was pish then you logically accept it was unlikely results would improve till the squad changed so your 27 games point is misleading .....if you don’t think Macdonald , Cardle , Anderson , Saunders, McMillan etc aren’t better that then melbourne, Keown, ntwambe etc your on drugs Agree the results are better, as are the players. It's incredible how all of the bottom teams have improved since the New Year, whilst the middle / safe teams, have been dragged in to a relegation battle. Don't read other forums, but am guessing QOS and Morton fans will not be too happy. Would not be surprised if one or both of these teams filled the bottom two places come the end of season. Noticed the other day that if you take the first letter of the teams winning each division in Scotland, it spells our season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Col Posted April 13, 2019 Report Share Posted April 13, 2019 13 minutes ago, javeajag said: First of all you don’t what he said about the squad that’s just gossip and hearsay.......pep would have struggled to improve Archie’s squad ......we aren’t down yet The chairman told us what he said about the squad (below). It has turned out out to be bull. He didn’t improve the squad he took over and he hasn’t had a brilliant 2019 either. “We were blown away by Gary’s interview preparation and, in the space of a week, he had done an analysis of each player, identified a training schedule to deal with the fitness levels and pulled together a vision of how to get Thistle playing well enough to secure promotion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld Jag Posted April 13, 2019 Report Share Posted April 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Third Lanark said: A double relegation is both managers fault I’d say AJ I have never been a defender of Archie TL. Javeajag said we didn't get here because of Caldwell. That is what I disagree with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld Jag Posted April 13, 2019 Report Share Posted April 13, 2019 29 minutes ago, javeajag said: Ah so you can predict what I would have done in a hypothetical situation can I have the euro millions numbers for next week ? heres what I would have done ....sack Archie after the Ross County game in February 2018 or sacked him after we got relegated both of which would have probably have avoided all this Never said I could predict what you would have done in a hypothetical question. I asked if he was an interim manager with 7 defeats out of 10 games would you give him a 2 year contract. I cant be bothered with I said/you said type argument so best to agree to disagree. One thing I think we can agree on is we don't want Thistle to go down yet again this season. Also I would have sacked Archie after Kilmarnock beat us 2-0 at Firhill in October 2017, with their Youth manager in charge. After that game we then went on our best run of the season getting 17points from our next 13 games, which took us up to the winter break. When we came back after the break it all fell apart again. When he could have been sacked after a few terrible games. I said at the time sacking Archie might be the easiest bit, we had to make sure we got the right person in. I don't think we have done that, but I will be delighted if Caldwell keeps us up and then has us challenging next season for promotion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyMac Posted April 14, 2019 Report Share Posted April 14, 2019 To say that I was far from impressed when Gary Caldwell was appointed, would be an understatement. His period in charge up to Christmas was (as far as results went) truly terrible. I was feeling so negative about the manager, club etc that I decided to stop posting, as I was only ever making negative contributions. How do I feel now? I feel that Gary Caldwell and the team deserve great credit for getting us out of the tailspin we were in before Christmas. Yes, we may well be bottom of the league, but the form of Falkirk and Alloa has also vastly improved. I honestly thought that we would be stranded at the bottom by now. Will we go down? I really don't know, which for me is an improvement, because a few months ago I would have said we were certainties for bottom spot. We all need to bury the hatchet and pull together for the next few games. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Third Lanark Posted April 14, 2019 Report Share Posted April 14, 2019 17 minutes ago, AndyMac said: To say that I was far from impressed when Gary Caldwell was appointed, would be an understatement. His period in charge up to Christmas was (as far as results went) truly terrible. I was feeling so negative about the manager, club etc that I decided to stop posting, as I was only ever making negative contributions. How do I feel now? I feel that Gary Caldwell and the team deserve great credit for getting us out of the tailspin we were in before Christmas. Yes, we may well be bottom of the league, but the form of Falkirk and Alloa has also vastly improved. I honestly thought that we would be stranded at the bottom by now. Will we go down? I really don't know, which for me is an improvement, because a few months ago I would have said we were certainties for bottom spot. We all need to bury the hatchet and pull together for the next few games. Again out of likes Andy but your last paragraph in particular is so true 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thistle88 Posted April 14, 2019 Report Share Posted April 14, 2019 2 hours ago, Big Col said: Totally agree that Archibald’s squad was utter pish. But funny how you mention improvement on the day we hit bottom spot in the league. There have been too many disappointments with Caldwell - draws against Falkirk, capitulation against Ross County when 2 goals up, a draw with Dunfermline, abject performances, mind boggling lineups, negative tactics. And his signings haven’t been that much better than AA - Harkins? Mansell? He took over with 27 games of the season left and has taken us to the bottom of the league and potentially League 1. Thats not improvement in my eyes - it’s further proof that he’s a serial loser and should never have been anywhere near Firhill. If we go down, it’s his fault and the BoD. I can see your point and I've already said I don't like Caldwell, don't think he's the right fit for the club and I think he thinks he's better than he is. However the squad we had was an absolute ******* disaster not only was there too many duds signed but there was absolutely no balance to the squad either. Archie made am absolute **** of it. The Coulibaly signing should have showed we were serious contenders to go straight back up. I don't know what the script with lawless was but if it's true he didn't want to keep him that was a huge mistake also. The board ****** up also Keown, Storey and Barton not having relegation clauses was ridiculous. Keown looked a different person because he had a contract sorted, when he was only on a short term deal he looked as if he would jump In front of a missile to protect our goal. What a difference a year makes, if you asked any1 last season if we should keep either Keown or Devine everyone including myself would have put Devine straight on the chopping block yet he seems to have actually performed pretty well for dunfermline this season, the fact they have 2 players we deemed not good enough just shows how quickly things change. I like the players Caldwell has brought in I feel there is a like for like improved in most of them.. but remember he probably didn't have a great deal of money to play with there must have been money wasted with Ntwambe and Mutombo. He's managed to bring in Anderson and McDonald (imo our 2 most influential players) and offload Keown and Bell until the end of the season. Harkins was a brain fart signing, not been overly impressed with McMillan but he's a better defensive option than we had before. Spittal has improved massively since Caldwell came in since Caldwell came in. My only other qualm with him is Fitzpatrick not starting more games.. he is young and maybe Caldwell thinks playing him is risky but he's the kind of player that can win a game on his own. I'm no happy clapper for Caldwell but there is definitely improvement in our squad. I hope he keeps us up and he change my dislike of him next season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garscube Road End Posted April 14, 2019 Report Share Posted April 14, 2019 A draw up there ordinarily is a good result, but we need wins. Caldwell hasn't got a clue. He may have bolstered the defence, but he did not address our failings in midfield. That has been a problem for the defence as they have had no protection. They are always on the back foot. The galling thing about all of this is that we have players who can win us games in which is a dreadful league, but our last 2 managers have been and are hopeless. This all lands at that incompetent bunch in the boardroom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted April 14, 2019 Report Share Posted April 14, 2019 7 hours ago, Auld Jag said: I have never been a defender of Archie TL. Javeajag said we didn't get here because of Caldwell. That is what I disagree with. I think if I put the word just before Caldwell you would get the point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted April 14, 2019 Report Share Posted April 14, 2019 7 hours ago, Auld Jag said: Never said I could predict what you would have done in a hypothetical question. I asked if he was an interim manager with 7 defeats out of 10 games would you give him a 2 year contract. I cant be bothered with I said/you said type argument so best to agree to disagree. One thing I think we can agree on is we don't want Thistle to go down yet again this season. Also I would have sacked Archie after Kilmarnock beat us 2-0 at Firhill in October 2017, with their Youth manager in charge. After that game we then went on our best run of the season getting 17points from our next 13 games, which took us up to the winter break. When we came back after the break it all fell apart again. When he could have been sacked after a few terrible games. I said at the time sacking Archie might be the easiest bit, we had to make sure we got the right person in. I don't think we have done that, but I will be delighted if Caldwell keeps us up and then has us challenging next season for promotion. Agreed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KemoAvdiu Posted April 14, 2019 Report Share Posted April 14, 2019 (edited) There’s been improvement since January but we are bottom of the league with four games to go. Caldwell has managed us for the vast majority of games this season. How on earth people can credibly try to shift the majority of the buck from him is genuinely bizarre. You can think Archie assembled a crap squad and simultaneously think Caldwell has made an absolute mess of things. Those two positions aren’t mutually exclusive. Edited April 14, 2019 by KemoAvdiu 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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