sandy Posted April 17, 2019 Report Share Posted April 17, 2019 4 hours ago, BowenBoys said: When the date was decided I think there was a chance we could still have been in the Champions League. What, back in Tenerife? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted April 17, 2019 Report Share Posted April 17, 2019 9 hours ago, Barney Rubble said: Because Ayr have a fixture on Friday night. Were Ayr allowed to refuse to play ? I am sure other teams have played Tuesday/Friday and the gap is no different from playing Saturday/Tuesday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Rubble Posted April 17, 2019 Report Share Posted April 17, 2019 55 minutes ago, Lenziejag said: Were Ayr allowed to refuse to play ? I am sure other teams have played Tuesday/Friday and the gap is no different from playing Saturday/Tuesday. There was a post on here some while back that confirmed clubs have the right to turn down a Tuesday fixture when they have a fixture on the following Friday, and Ayr invoked that rule this week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted April 17, 2019 Report Share Posted April 17, 2019 2 hours ago, Barney Rubble said: There was a post on here some while back that confirmed clubs have the right to turn down a Tuesday fixture when they have a fixture on the following Friday, and Ayr invoked that rule this week. I wonder what the logic is for that ? No matter when you play midweek you are going to play either 3 days from your last game or 3 days until the next game at most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy McD Posted April 17, 2019 Report Share Posted April 17, 2019 Is it just me or are Ayr on the telly every Friday night??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 17, 2019 Report Share Posted April 17, 2019 Yes but only if they play the bast@$d arabs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld Jag Posted April 17, 2019 Report Share Posted April 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Jimmy McD said: Is it just me or are Ayr on the telly every Friday night??? Friday night Sprtscene should be renamed to Ayr TV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted April 17, 2019 Report Share Posted April 17, 2019 2 hours ago, Lenziejag said: I wonder what the logic is for that ? No matter when you play midweek you are going to play either 3 days from your last game or 3 days until the next game at most. "logic"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted April 17, 2019 Report Share Posted April 17, 2019 28 minutes ago, allyo said: "logic"... Logic maybe isn’t the right word, but there has to be a reason ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted April 17, 2019 Report Share Posted April 17, 2019 Logic and reasoning are not exactly qualities Doncaster and the SPFL are renown for. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if which week a weekday fixture is scheduled for is determined by whatever colour of wheelie bin goes out that week. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emsca Posted April 17, 2019 Report Share Posted April 17, 2019 19 hours ago, Thistleberight said: Your first part, Yes, if something clearly isn't working, you have to change it, to keep going and hoping against hope is foolish. You keep changing until you get it right. Within sensible boundries of course. To your second question, if that happened? it's hard, it really is. Foolishly by me, I've never met the guy, but I just don't rate him. This is based on his tactics, formations and in game decision making. Oh, and his pre and post match meanderings. After the county game I wanted him gone, right away. Not even keep him on to clean the toilets. After the DUFC game i changed my mind to the extent of his being allowed to save us from disaster. It's so up and down being a jaggy this season. For the long term benefit of the club and not ong term benefit of Caldwell, yes, I'd get rid. IMHO he is not the long term answer. Even if he gets 7 points from 9. He told us he'd get us up. Had he taken us to 5th, 6th and just missing out on play offs I'd probably go with keeping him and giving him a chance, but facts are facts, he hasn't, he's a failure in my opinion. We need to STOP rewarding failure or we will continue to be a yo yo club. I appreciate your honest and reasoned reply and largely I agree with you. I have never met or spoken to the guy either but I agree he comes across as a bit of a knob and some of his team selections are difficult to fathom- particularly not playing Fitzpatrick often enough but persevering with Storey. My concern is the notion that if after changing manager you do not get (immediate) success, you change again and again. History has shown that the clubs that are successful over the long term tend to be well run clubs that have a stable and cosistant management structure. I take the point that if the man in place is not the right one he needs to be moved on, but at some point in time you need to back your judgement and give a manager a sufficient time to put proper long term structures in place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld Jag Posted April 17, 2019 Report Share Posted April 17, 2019 4 minutes ago, Emsca said: I appreciate your honest and reasoned reply and largely I agree with you. I have never met or spoken to the guy either but I agree he comes across as a bit of a knob and some of his team selections are difficult to fathom- particularly not playing Fitzpatrick often enough but persevering with Storey. My concern is the notion that if after changing manager you do not get (immediate) success, you change again and again. History has shown that the clubs that are successful over the long term tend to be well run clubs that have a stable and cosistant management structure. I take the point that if the man in place is not the right one he needs to be moved on, but at some point in time you need to back your judgement and give a manager a sufficient time to put proper long term structures in place. The manager we have in charge ,will have been in charge of Thistle for 3/4 of the season when we play our last league game. If we were to go down I would not want to give him more time in the job. Quite simply I have no faith in him to be able to build a winning team. His record at Chesterfield, for a good bit at Wigan and if we were to go down his record with Thistle would simply say to me he is a serial loser and should not be a manager at a football club that wants to go forward. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted April 17, 2019 Report Share Posted April 17, 2019 This AJ. We have rumbled him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld Jag Posted April 17, 2019 Report Share Posted April 17, 2019 13 minutes ago, sandy said: This AJ. We have rumbled him Pity the board didn't rumble him at the interview. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dl1971 Posted April 17, 2019 Report Share Posted April 17, 2019 3 hours ago, Emsca said: I appreciate your honest and reasoned reply and largely I agree with you. I have never met or spoken to the guy either but I agree he comes across as a bit of a knob and some of his team selections are difficult to fathom- particularly not playing Fitzpatrick often enough but persevering with Storey. My concern is the notion that if after changing manager you do not get (immediate) success, you change again and again. History has shown that the clubs that are successful over the long term tend to be well run clubs that have a stable and cosistant management structure. I take the point that if the man in place is not the right one he needs to be moved on, but at some point in time you need to back your judgement and give a manager a sufficient time to put proper long term structures in place. Sensible comments. The key question is define sufficient time in modern football terms. Is it 5 games, 10 games, half a season or one season. It varies. I'm not overly impressed by Caldwell and that is to do with football tactics. His personality is of no great interest to me and nor should it. It's results and the picture moving forward. If we stay up the board will stick with him and all the ire and fire of a few on here won't change that. If we go down he will be binned. I still get the feeling that a precious few would accept going down if it meant Caldwell was sacked. That's something I can't ever understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld Jag Posted April 17, 2019 Report Share Posted April 17, 2019 10 minutes ago, dl1971 said: Sensible comments. The key question is define sufficient time in modern football terms. Is it 5 games, 10 games, half a season or one season. It varies. I'm not overly impressed by Caldwell and that is to do with football tactics. His personality is of no great interest to me and nor should it. It's results and the picture moving forward. If we stay up the board will stick with him and all the ire and fire of a few on here won't change that. If we go down he will be binned. I still get the feeling that a precious few would accept going down if it meant Caldwell was sacked. That's something I can't ever understand. I would never want Thistle relegated no matter who the manager was. I would be delighted and more than happy to eat humble pie if he kept us up this season and we were challenging for promotion next season. Even though that would be a season later than we were lead to expect we would be doing it. I do think his personality is important, because that will impact on the playing squad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garscube Road End Posted April 18, 2019 Report Share Posted April 18, 2019 8 hours ago, dl1971 said: Sensible comments. The key question is define sufficient time in modern football terms. Is it 5 games, 10 games, half a season or one season. It varies. I'm not overly impressed by Caldwell and that is to do with football tactics. His personality is of no great interest to me and nor should it. It's results and the picture moving forward. If we stay up the board will stick with him and all the ire and fire of a few on here won't change that. If we go down he will be binned. I still get the feeling that a precious few would accept going down if it meant Caldwell was sacked. That's something I can't ever understand. Any supposed Jags fan would never want Thistle to be relegated. Relegation this season would put the club in real peril. I am desperate to see Thistle stay up. I don't want the club I have loved for 50 years to crash and burn. If we stay up, utterly fantastic. But I would still want Caldwell punted. He does not inspire confidence in his management skills. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARu-Strathbungo Posted April 18, 2019 Report Share Posted April 18, 2019 1 hour ago, Garscube Road End said: Any supposed Jags fan would never want Thistle to be relegated. Relegation this season would put the club in real peril. I am desperate to see Thistle stay up. I don't want the club I have loved for 50 years to crash and burn. If we stay up, utterly fantastic. But I would still want Caldwell punted. He does not inspire confidence in his management skills. My best case scenario is to see us finish 8th, punt Caldwell and appoint Jim Goodwin. I feel with that guy we will have the chance to challenge again for promotion playoffs. Give JG 3 years at the club he would have us playing better with younger players scouted from the Scottish lower leagues and juniors. It would have our support happy in that we would see young Scottish talent learning and playing well for the best community orientated club in Glasgow. Well I can dream. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emsca Posted April 18, 2019 Report Share Posted April 18, 2019 58 minutes ago, ARu-Strathbungo said: My best case scenario is to see us finish 8th, punt Caldwell and appoint Jim Goodwin. I feel with that guy we will have the chance to challenge again for promotion playoffs. Give JG 3 years at the club he would have us playing better with younger players scouted from the Scottish lower leagues and juniors. It would have our support happy in that we would see young Scottish talent learning and playing well for the best community orientated club in Glasgow. Well I can dream. I would be more than happy if that scenario came to fruition. I have highlighted in bold the bit I am not sure of. If JG came in; put out a younger team; explained to the fans what he was trying to achieve and how - but did not get results. I severely doubt he would be given anything like 3 years. There would be calls on here within half a season for him to be punted. Which is my point. In answer to the question- how long is sufficient time in modern football- I would say realistically 2 full seasons and you would expect to see signs of real improvement in the second season. Anything less than this and it is knee jerk stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARu-Strathbungo Posted April 18, 2019 Report Share Posted April 18, 2019 (edited) 7 hours ago, Emsca said: I would be more than happy if that scenario came to fruition. I have highlighted in bold the bit I am not sure of. If JG came in; put out a younger team; explained to the fans what he was trying to achieve and how - but did not get results. I severely doubt he would be given anything like 3 years. There would be calls on here within half a season for him to be punted. Which is my point. In answer to the question- how long is sufficient time in modern football- I would say realistically 2 full seasons and you would expect to see signs of real improvement in the second season. Anything less than this and it is knee jerk stuff. I think if you were appoint someone like JG and explain to the support that promotion to the Premiership is not the first priority, but rather the building of a good set of youngsters blended with the support of a few good experienced player that can compete in the Championship with a good level of competence and success, the majority of the support would accept that a 'long view' strategy is a better way to approach an eventual return to the Premier League. We are not the sort of team that can buy success [IMO we never want to be that sort of team anyway] so bringing on our own players through a well run academy and a well run reserve team is our best option. I don't think Gary Caldwell is the sort manager to establish the infrastructure required by a football academy that feeds quality players through to the first team, I believe he sees the Thistle appointment as a means to sorting his tarnished managerial reputation … end of By the end of the season GC will have managed the team for about 3/4 of a season, I would not class changing him out for someone with a vision that stretches beyond simple personal gain as a knee-jerk reaction, I would call that an act of self preservation Edited April 18, 2019 by ARu-Strathbungo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyprusjag Posted April 18, 2019 Report Share Posted April 18, 2019 The only thing I would add is that we put an emphasis on attack.Attacking teams attract more fans. Quote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld Jag Posted April 18, 2019 Report Share Posted April 18, 2019 3 hours ago, ARu-Strathbungo said: I think if you were appoint someone like JG and explain to the support that promotion to the Premiership is not the first priority, but rather the building of a good set of youngsters blended with the support of a few good experienced player that can compete in the Championship with a good level of competence and success, the majority of the support would accept that a 'long view' strategy is a better way to approach an eventual return to the Premier League. We are not the sort of team that can buy success [IMO we never want to be that sort of team anyway] so bringing on our own players through a well run academy and a well run reserve team is our best option. I don't thing Gary Caldwell is the sort manager to establish the infrastructure required by a football academy that feeds quality players through to the first team, I believe he sees the Thistle appointment as a means to sorting his tarnished managerial reputation … end of By the end of the season GC will have managed the team for about 3/4 of a season, I would not class changing him out for someone with a vision that stretches beyond simple personal gain as a knee-jerk reaction, I would call that an act of self preservation Agree. Would also add not rewarding failure by sacking a manager who gets us relegated, who was hired to get us promotion is not knee jerk. Anyway Caldwell might apply for the Scotland job again. He could tell them Thistle's current league position is irrelevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semi Nurainen Posted April 18, 2019 Report Share Posted April 18, 2019 6 hours ago, ARu-Strathbungo said: My best case scenario is to see us finish 8th, punt Caldwell and appoint Jim Goodwin. I feel with that guy we will have the chance to challenge again for promotion playoffs. Give JG 3 years at the club he would have us playing better with younger players scouted from the Scottish lower leagues and juniors. It would have our support happy in that we would see young Scottish talent learning and playing well for the best community orientated club in Glasgow. Well I can dream. + 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 18, 2019 Report Share Posted April 18, 2019 20 hours ago, Emsca said: I appreciate your honest and reasoned reply and largely I agree with you. I have never met or spoken to the guy either but I agree he comes across as a bit of a knob and some of his team selections are difficult to fathom- particularly not playing Fitzpatrick often enough but persevering with Storey. My concern is the notion that if after changing manager you do not get (immediate) success, you change again and again. History has shown that the clubs that are successful over the long term tend to be well run clubs that have a stable and cosistant management structure. I take the point that if the man in place is not the right one he needs to be moved on, but at some point in time you need to back your judgement and give a manager a sufficient time to put proper long term structures in place. I agree emsca, your point of well run clubs with a long term appointment strategy (of the team manager) is well made and the history of the game is littered with such successful boards who back their appointment and ultimately have long term success. Brian clough, Bobby Robson at Ipswich, ferguson of course, being the most obvious. More locally Jim McLean, list is of course endless and is more evidence to your main point. But, there's never going to be examples of boards who support the wrong manager long term because of course that club would have dismissed them before that. Of course the game is littered with managers who are moved on post haste because it is glaringly obvious that the club had appointed the wrong guy. We have many in our past like that, sandy Clark, Derek johnstone and of course several examples of some who got longer than they should have, murdo, Lamont, big Peter. If Caldwell keeps us up and is here next season and turns us into a promotion chasing team I'll quickly admit I got it wrong and will be mightily relieved to confirm to myself I know feck all about football and am a complete diddy who hides on forums spouting p1sh to pass the time of day Mon jags, intae this part time p1ss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weebaw1 Posted April 18, 2019 Report Share Posted April 18, 2019 If we go down, punt him. If we stay up he’ll have done an excellent job. The only good players we have are MCDonald and Penrice. He signed one and developed the other. Several others have played better under Caldwell but will never be good players. Having watched the Livvy debacle I suggested we get rid of nearly the whole bunch of bottlers. Archie retained most of the worst ones and signed a bunch oh haddies. Of the few I would have retained Erskine and Doolan failed badly. Since New Year McDonald and a few others have made an impact and we should stay up. If so Caldwell should be praised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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