This season vs. last season

[Jaggernaut]

Which has been worse?

Or is is still too early to say.......

[Jaggernaut]

OK, having thought about it, I'll answer my own question.

This season is worse.

Yes, we got relegated last year, almost without even a whimper. But let's face it, we are not really a Premiership team, and maybe never will be. We are merely occasional visitors to the top level, but when we are there we offer absolutely nothing except easy points for the "real" Premiership teams.

Now almost 50 years since we even got to a major final. 

So, after many decades of supporting PTFC, I've come to the conclusion that we are a 2nd rate outfit at best, and that is our destiny. And that is why this season has been much, much worse than last season. We are not even competing at the lower level where we're currently playing, and we are in serious danger of dropping to the 3rd level. But maybe that is in fact where we belong. Let's join the part-time Clydes etc, and leave the serious stuff to the real teams.

Discuss. 

[jlsarmy]

1 hour ago, Jaggernaut said:

OK, having thought about it, I'll answer my own question.

This season is worse.

Yes, we got relegated last year, almost without even a whimper. But let's face it, we are not really a Premiership team, and maybe never will be. We are merely occasional visitors to the top level, but when we are there we offer absolutely nothing except easy points for the "real" Premiership teams.

Now almost 50 years since we even got to a major final. 

So, after many decades of supporting PTFC, I've come to the conclusion that we are a 2nd rate outfit at best, and that is our destiny. And that is why this season has been much, much worse than last season. We are not even competing at the lower level where we're currently playing, and we are in serious danger of dropping to the 3rd level. But maybe that is in fact where we belong. Let's join the part-time Clydes etc, and leave the serious stuff to the real teams.

Discuss. 

We shouldn’t be in the position that we’re in just now , that in my opinion is down to mismanagement, the fan base is there , on Saturday there was 3500 Thistle fans for a game against Ayr United .  The people in charge of our Club have the right intentions but not necessarily the right skill sets to make this happen.

The intentions are good , let’s build a training facility without really looking into the cost of running said facility if we’re not in the SPFL, that I believe now is on the back burner despite the fan fare to the fans and the media.

Lets have an Academy and coach and promote young players to our first team , that sounds a good idea ,the reality is over the last 7 years only 2 players have come through Liam Lindsey and James Penrice , that now becomes a costly exercise regardless of where the money comes from.

The key thing in my opinion is to have all supporters onside  at a Club at our level ( Community Club etc ) , just now that is not happening because of the decisions that are getting made within the Club which breeds a lack of confidence between the supporters and Board  of Directors. 

If we’re going to run an Academy ,do it properly and give young players a pathway to the first team , we’ve got to have the right people in charge from Academy staff to the first team manager , everything should be joined up and part of the managers remit should be bringing young players through and giving them a chance at first team level .

We should be competing with St Mirren , Dundee , Hamilton, St Johnstone , Livingston and Motherwell.

We had a great chance 2 years ago to cement our place in the SPFL but we blew it due to mismanagement , not recruiting properly at first team level , making big decisions about Alan Archibald’s tenure before it was too late 

Hopefully we can turn things around and we’re not talking about 3rd tier football.

[javeajag]

Ok fact check .....

where is your evidence the club have not looked at or worked out the cost if running the training centre.....?

where is your evidence the training centre is in the back burner after the CEO said last month it wasn’t ...?

Aidan Fitzpatrick came through the academy and others have featured .....evidence for only two ?

where is your evidence the academy is not joined up .... ? 

So e of your opinions I don’t disagree with but don’t make stuff up 

[allyo]

This season is worse.

Last season was probably always going to happen at some point. No outsider last season was saying, have you seen the state of Partick Thistle? They are now.

 

[jlsarmy]

8 minutes ago, javeajag said:

Ok fact check .....

where is your evidence the club have not looked at or worked out the cost if running the training centre.....?

where is your evidence the training centre is in the back burner after the CEO said last month it wasn’t ...?

Aidan Fitzpatrick came through the academy and others have featured .....evidence for only two ?

where is your evidence the academy is not joined up .... ? 

So e of your opinions I don’t disagree with but don’t make stuff up 

There is no stuff made up , there will be no Training Academy in the near future, in my opinion the only first team regulars in the last 7 years are Liam Lindsey and James Penrice.

Your’re quite right about Aidan Fitzpatrick, I’m sure in time he will become a first team regular, he isn’t at this moment, whether it’s 2 or 3 players over the last 7 years , is that enough to justify an Academy?

[ARu-Strathbungo]

2 hours ago, Jaggernaut said:

OK, having thought about it, I'll answer my own question.

This season is worse.

Yes, we got relegated last year, almost without even a whimper. But let's face it, we are not really a Premiership team, and maybe never will be. We are merely occasional visitors to the top level, but when we are there we offer absolutely nothing except easy points for the "real" Premiership teams.

Now almost 50 years since we even got to a major final. 

So, after many decades of supporting PTFC, I've come to the conclusion that we are a 2nd rate outfit at best, and that is our destiny. And that is why this season has been much, much worse than last season. We are not even competing at the lower level where we're currently playing, and we are in serious danger of dropping to the 3rd level. But maybe that is in fact where we belong. Let's join the part-time Clydes etc, and leave the serious stuff to the real teams.

Discuss. 

I am in agreement to some of your points, but just to clarify:- With a SPL of 12 teams, a Championship of 10 teams and Div. 1 of 10 teams I think we are firmly a Championship team. Within that league we play well, score goals, entertain and will always [this season being a horrible, horrible exception] be top 4 or there about. Last time we were promoted, although I was happy and proud of the team I did realise the exciting football I had become used to in the Championship was probably going to be replaced by a very few wins and nail-biting 'backs to the wall' play. Premier League football was going to be about survival, especially in the first season

If however those 3 leagues were rearranged [I know … were getting into the realms of fantasy here] to be two leagues of 16, I would always consider us to be a team that should be in the top group.

Last year was pathetic, the game against Livingston was one that I simply endured. I would class that game as 90 minutes of my life I will never get back.

This year has been much worse as it has been one of pure frustration … example, I feel we have maybe 4 or 5 players at Firhill who could walk into the Ross County team, but I would only want 2 of the RC team to play for Thistle. The potential is there, but we just have not played well as a unit for the whole season.

[Garscube Road End]

3 hours ago, Jaggernaut said:

OK, having thought about it, I'll answer my own question.

This season is worse.

Yes, we got relegated last year, almost without even a whimper. But let's face it, we are not really a Premiership team, and maybe never will be. We are merely occasional visitors to the top level, but when we are there we offer absolutely nothing except easy points for the "real" Premiership teams.

Now almost 50 years since we even got to a major final. 

So, after many decades of supporting PTFC, I've come to the conclusion that we are a 2nd rate outfit at best, and that is our destiny. And that is why this season has been much, much worse than last season. We are not even competing at the lower level where we're currently playing, and we are in serious danger of dropping to the 3rd level. But maybe that is in fact where we belong. Let's join the part-time Clydes etc, and leave the serious stuff to the real teams.

Discuss. 

After spending nigh on 70 years in the top flight unbroken we were an 'established' club. Those days are long gone. I'm afraid we need to accept that we are a 2nd class outfit and will to and fro between 2nd and third tier with the occasional soiree into the top flight. 

[jaf]

This season is worse.

I think we are about 14th/15th team in Scotland if one explores our history. (this equates to what a few have said above)

Therefore, in top division, we were overachieving versus our past.

This season we are underperforming on that same measure.

I agree with jlsarmy re the Board and CEO and think various things have been done that has not helped in unifying the club and supporters. But that's all for another day.

 

[mulguy jag]

1 hour ago, jlsarmy said:

We shouldn’t be in the position that we’re in just now , that in my opinion is down to mismanagement, the fan base is there , on Saturday there was 3500 Thistle fans for a game against Ayr United .  The people in charge of our Club have the right intentions but not necessarily the right skill sets to make this happen.

The intentions are good , let’s build a training facility without really looking into the cost of running said facility if we’re not in the SPFL, that I believe now is on the back burner despite the fan fare to the fans and the media.

Lets have an Academy and coach and promote young players to our first team , that sounds a good idea ,the reality is over the last 7 years only 2 players have come through Liam Lindsey and James Penrice , that now becomes a costly exercise regardless of where the money comes from.

The key thing in my opinion is to have all supporters onside  at a Club at our level ( Community Club etc ) , just now that is not happening because of the decisions that are getting made within the Club which breeds a lack of confidence between the supporters and Board  of Directors. 

If we’re going to run an Academy ,do it properly and give young players a pathway to the first team , we’ve got to have the right people in charge from Academy staff to the first team manager , everything should be joined up and part of the managers remit should be bringing young players through and giving them a chance at first team level .

We should be competing with St Mirren , Dundee , Hamilton, St Johnstone , Livingston and Motherwell.

We had a great chance 2 years ago to cement our place in the SPFL but we blew it due to mismanagement , not recruiting properly at first team level , making big decisions about Alan Archibald’s tenure before it was too late 

Hopefully we can turn things around and we’re not talking about 3rd tier football.

Spot on .

[laukat]

Comparing this season to last season is difficult.

Last season it was clear that there was problems between the manager and players behind the scenes. It was frustrating because it was avoidable and there were quite a few opportunities for the board to act to prevent being dragged into the playoffs. However we were always likely to be in a bottom 6 that season and a relegation battle and we almost managed to make it even though so much was wrong

This season we have one of the biggest budgets in the league so a reasonable expectation was to be around the top 3 but at least playoffs. However at no point have we ever looked likely to get close to that. In my opinion we've had the playing squad to be in the top 4 (even under Archie) but due to complete miss management have got ourseleves in a right mess. So to me this season is worse as we are so far away from what was reasonably expected.

By they way I don't get this idea that we should accept that we are 2nd rate team and should accept only 4/5 seasons in the SPL. The size and budget of the club compares with St Johnstone, Motherwell, Hamilton and St Mirren. How many of their fans would accept that they should expect more seasons out of the top league than in it? To my mind we have a long term problem at Firhill of accepting second best which translates into results.

[Lenziejag]

22 minutes ago, Garscube Road End said:

After spending nigh on 70 years in the top flight unbroken we were an 'established' club. Those days are long gone. I'm afraid we need to accept that we are a 2nd class outfit and will to and fro between 2nd and third tier with the occasional soiree into the top flight. 

Come on GRE. How many of those 70 years were in a league of 18 ?

[javeajag]

2 hours ago, jlsarmy said:

There is no stuff made up , there will be no Training Academy in the near future, in my opinion the only first team regulars in the last 7 years are Liam Lindsey and James Penrice.

Your’re quite right about Aidan Fitzpatrick, I’m sure in time he will become a first team regular, he isn’t at this moment, whether it’s 2 or 3 players over the last 7 years , is that enough to justify an Academy?

Ok you made most of it up.... your opinion isn’t a fact 

[jlsarmy]

10 minutes ago, javeajag said:

Ok you made most of it up.... your opinion isn’t a fact 

What bit is made up , the training centre that was going to be ready for June ? , all these wonderful talents that have been brought through in the last 7 years ?

Pretty sure these are facts not opinions 

[lady-isobel-barnett]

2 hours ago, jaf said:

This season is worse.

I think we are about 14th/15th team in Scotland if one explores our history. (this equates to what a few have said above)

Therefore, in top division, we were overachieving versus our past.

This season we are underperforming on that same measure.

I agree with jlsarmy re the Board and CEO and think various things have been done that has not helped in unifying the club and supporters. But that's all for another day.

 

I'll take that as accurate, jaf. The inane league set up we have in Scotland dictates that a good few traditional 1st division clubs of similar size to us will be in the 2nd tier at any given time. As I pointed out last year the season after we won the League Cup we finished the league with 12 clubs above us and thus under the present system we would have been relegated. Memory is foggy at my age but I can't remember anyone calling for Davie McParland to be fired or indeed any serious disgruntlement at our league position back then.  So I agree that we were overachieving for four recent seasons or at worst marking time in a reasonable position in the top division.

The manner of our relegation last season may have been verging on a disgrace but finding ourselves in the 2nd tier isn't. There's a good few examples of clubs bigger than ourselves being stuck in this division for more than one season. The Dundee clubs and Hibs being prime examples (I've left out Hearts & sevco as there were there due to financial difficulties). Other similar sized clubs like St Mirren, Morton & Falkirk have spent many seasons out of the top division.

So the answer to the OP is this season is far worse than last season. I doubt even the most pessimistic on here would've been expecting us to be relying on Alloa not winning an away match 12 months on.

[Auld Jag]

This season is by far worse than last season. Most of our seasons in the premier league not getting relegated is a success. In this league we should imo be top 4. Also when you see Hamilton getting just over 1100 for an important game, is it really being over ambitious to think why could we not compete with them.

[Garscube Road End]

4 hours ago, Lenziejag said:

Come on GRE. How many of those 70 years were in a league of 18 ?

That doesn't matter. That's the way it was. Still a fact we spent nigh on 70 years there. 

[One t in Scotland]

3 hours ago, jlsarmy said:

all these wonderful talents that have been brought through in the last 7 years ?

Why bother? They'll just get sold on for buttons a la Lindsay.

[javeajag]

3 hours ago, jlsarmy said:

What bit is made up , the training centre that was going to be ready for June ? , all these wonderful talents that have been brought through in the last 7 years ?

Pretty sure these are facts not opinions 

There was an update on the training centre given last month : the cost had risen to £5m but was still going ahead , the delay was due to the council and junction works required and as a result it was unlikely to meet the June date ..... what facts do you have ?

facts on the club not working out the running costs of the training centre ?

[jlsarmy]

34 minutes ago, javeajag said:

There was an update on the training centre given last month : the cost had risen to £5m but was still going ahead , the delay was due to the council and junction works required and as a result it was unlikely to meet the June date ..... what facts do you have ?

facts on the club not working out the running costs of the training centre ?

The delay is not at the council end , it’s at our end , there has been no planning application submitted, therefore the Council can hardly object to a hypothetical application.

Check East Dunbartonshire’s website for pending planning applications 

[Lenziejag]

1 hour ago, Garscube Road End said:

That doesn't matter. That's the way it was. Still a fact we spent nigh on 70 years there. 

It does matter. You might think we are 2nd rate, but not because we spent 70 years in a much bigger league.

[sandy]

5 hours ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

I'll take that as accurate, jaf. The inane league set up we have in Scotland dictates that a good few traditional 1st division clubs of similar size to us will be in the 2nd tier at any given time. As I pointed out last year the season after we won the League Cup we finished the league with 12 clubs above us and thus under the present system we would have been relegated. Memory is foggy at my age but I can't remember anyone calling for Davie McParland to be fired or indeed any serious disgruntlement at our league position back then.  So I agree that we were overachieving for four recent seasons or at worst marking time in a reasonable position in the top division.

The manner of our relegation last season may have been verging on a disgrace but finding ourselves in the 2nd tier isn't. There's a good few examples of clubs bigger than ourselves being stuck in this division for more than one season. The Dundee clubs and Hibs being prime examples (I've left out Hearts & sevco as there were there due to financial difficulties). Other similar sized clubs like St Mirren, Morton & Falkirk have spent many seasons out of the top division.

So the answer to the OP is this season is far worse than last season. I doubt even the most pessimistic on here would've been expecting us to be relying on Alloa not winning an away match 12 months on.

This and from a measured poster too.

[javeajag]

2 hours ago, jlsarmy said:

The delay is not at the council end , it’s at our end , there has been no planning application submitted, therefore the Council can hardly object to a hypothetical application.

Check East Dunbartonshire’s website for pending planning applications 

Ok the CEO is lying 

[Norgethistle]

16 minutes ago, javeajag said:

Ok the CEO is lying 

Check the councils planning application website

[javeajag]

19 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

Check the councils planning application website

I get it....the CEO is lying