This season vs. last season

[Norgethistle]

1 hour ago, javeajag said:

I get it....the CEO is lying

That’s your call to make not mine.

 

What happened as has been stated many a time is below

We were told it would be finished by the summer 2019

We were told planning permission would be easy 

We were then told there was some clarifications (Around December) but all was on track and was councils fault with delays

We were told last month ( Or Jags Trust were) there was an issue on access road, but still going ahead.

There are 26 issues, most minor but one major 

Planning permission was submitted on 21st August 2018

Council gave its decision (with issues / objections) on 11th September 2018

No appeal has been sought 

No new application or update has been submitted 

Close season (Summer for the club) starts (hopefully) on Sunday

 

Its all here in link below

http://planning.eastdunbarton.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?keyVal=PDT351GJ01N00&activeTab=summary

 

[javeajag]

44 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

That’s your call to make not mine.

 

What happened as has been stated many a time is below

We were told it would be finished by the summer 2019

We were told planning permission would be easy 

We were then told there was some clarifications (Around December) but all was on track and was councils fault with delays

We were told last month ( Or Jags Trust were) there was an issue on access road, but still going ahead.

There are 26 issues, most minor but one major 

Planning permission was submitted on 21st August 2018

Council gave its decision (with issues / objections) on 11th September 2018

No appeal has been sought 

No new application or update has been submitted 

Close season (Summer for the club) starts (hopefully) on Sunday

 

Its all here in link below

http://planning.eastdunbarton.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?keyVal=PDT351GJ01N00&activeTab=summary

 

So what’s your point ... the update last month is true or isn’t ? 

[CotterJag]

16 hours ago, Jaggernaut said:

We are merely occasional visitors to the top level, but when we are there we offer absolutely nothing except easy points for the "real" Premiership teams.

Now almost 50 years since we even got to a major final. 

 

Fair enough, but you're describing the majority of teams in world football.

It's an elitist sport and you can pretty much name the top 5 from any league in the world.

There are many clubs 5 times the size of Thistle that relate to the above statements.

We and their supporters, follow our teams through thick and thin (mostly thin), in the hope that our special day in the sun will come.

In the meantime, we'll feed off crumbs, listen to tales of yesteryear and feel proud to support a team we wouldn't swap for the world.

A massive percentage of our overall support travel to watch our team each week and it feels great to be a Jag despite the result.

I've said myself that I wished I supported Barcelona and Germany but who really wishes they supported any of the successful teams in Scotland?

Not anyone wearing Red and Yellow, that's for sure. 

[jlsarmy]

30 minutes ago, CotterJag said:

Fair enough, but you're describing the majority of teams in world football.

It's an elitist sport and you can pretty much name the top 5 from any league in the world.

There are many clubs 5 times the size of Thistle that relate to the above statements.

We and their supporters, follow our teams through thick and thin (mostly thin), in the hope that our special day in the sun will come.

In the meantime, we'll feed off crumbs, listen to tales of yesteryear and feel proud to support a team we wouldn't swap for the world.

A massive percentage of our overall support travel to watch our team each week and it feels great to be a Jag despite the result.

I've said myself that I wished I supported Barcelona and Germany but who really wishes they supported any of the successful teams in Scotland?

Not anyone wearing Red and Yellow, that's for sure. 

We should be getting to Cup finals every now and again, over the last 25 years we’ve seen teams like Ross County, Inverness, Livingston, Motherwell, St Mirren , Falkirk, Dunfermline, St Johnstone and Queen of South all get to compete and sometimes win at major Cup finals .

There is absolutely no reason why we shouldn’t be part of that group of teams , maybe we’ll get our day in the sun one day if possibly the  “that’s the level we’re at syndrome changes “

[Auld Jag]

17 hours ago, Jaggernaut said:

OK, having thought about it, I'll answer my own question.

This season is worse.

Yes, we got relegated last year, almost without even a whimper. But let's face it, we are not really a Premiership team, and maybe never will be. We are merely occasional visitors to the top level, but when we are there we offer absolutely nothing except easy points for the "real" Premiership teams.

Now almost 50 years since we even got to a major final. 

So, after many decades of supporting PTFC, I've come to the conclusion that we are a 2nd rate outfit at best, and that is our destiny. And that is why this season has been much, much worse than last season. We are not even competing at the lower level where we're currently playing, and we are in serious danger of dropping to the 3rd level. But maybe that is in fact where we belong. Let's join the part-time Clydes etc, and leave the serious stuff to the real teams.

Discuss. 

If we take that attitude we will at best end up playing Clyde, Forfar etc or even go out of business. We should be higher and challenging in the Championship. The reason we are not  imo  we waited to long before we got rid of Archie and we then employed the wrong man(willing to be proven wrong with that one). We will bounce back hopefully. How long it will take is anybody's guess.

[Norgethistle]

8 hours ago, javeajag said:

So what’s your point ... the update last month is true or isn’t ? 

Ask yourself why no written update has been given on the progress of the training center on the official site?

Id be more worried about our rumoured need to ask for a sub from Colin Weir on a monthly basis to balance the books after already eating through the £900k parachute payment

[javeajag]

1 hour ago, Norgethistle said:

Ask yourself why no written update has been given on the progress of the training center on the official site?

Id be more worried about our rumoured need to ask for a sub from Colin Weir on a monthly basis to balance the books after already eating through the £900k parachute payment

The trouble with rumour and gossip is that often they are not true and not in the interest of the club 

[jaf]

7 hours ago, Norgethistle said:

Ask yourself why no written update has been given on the progress of the training center on the official site?

Id be more worried about our rumoured need to ask for a sub from Colin Weir on a monthly basis to balance the books after already eating through the £900k parachute payment

There is only one crime worse than appointing wrong managers and overseeing under performance, and that crime is surely financial mismanagement.

A worrying rumour. If true, it is great for us that CW is willing to assist thanks to his ties to the club, and the relationships which exist, however I would much rather we ran a sustainable club.

 

[Jordanhill Jag]

19 hours ago, javeajag said:

Ok the CEO is lying 

We havent actually had a proper update from the Club - we have recieved second hand information given to small groups of people - so no one is in a position to acertian exactly what the position is beyond the fact there is No Planning Application on the Councils website - given we have a PR Guru as Chairman - a Lwayer as CEO and two Full Time Communications employees it strikes me as a bit odd there is no Official Update from the Club and we are operating on third party information  

[ARu-Strathbungo]

8 hours ago, Norgethistle said:

Ask yourself why no written update has been given on the progress of the training center on the official site?

Id be more worried about our rumoured need to ask for a sub from Colin Weir on a monthly basis to balance the books after already eating through the £900k parachute payment

Thistle have been lucky to have the Weirs bankroll them in the academy and perhaps a new training ground someday in the future. If you look across the river to Morton, they are looking precarious in that the football club debts are rumoured to be circa £2.5 / £2.8 million by the end of this season, and worryingly for the 'ton, it appears the Rae family are on the verge of selling off their interests.

Hopefully our business model is better than Mortons!

[Jordanhill Jag]

7 hours ago, javeajag said:

The trouble with rumour and gossip is that often they are not true and not in the interest of the club 

So why not give a formal update on the Training Centre and kill any rumours - they were all over it for months when it was announced with regular updates ? 

[javeajag]

36 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

We havent actually had a proper update from the Club - we have recieved second hand information given to small groups of people - so no one is in a position to acertian exactly what the position is beyond the fact there is No Planning Application on the Councils website - given we have a PR Guru as Chairman - a Lwayer as CEO and two Full Time Communications employees it strikes me as a bit odd there is no Official Update from the Club and we are operating on third party information  

I was operating on the update given to the jags trust by the CEO 

[Norgethistle]

2 hours ago, ARu-Strathbungo said:

Thistle have been lucky to have the Weirs bankroll them in the academy and perhaps a new training ground someday in the future. If you look across the river to Morton, they are looking precarious in that the football club debts are rumoured to be circa £2.5 / £2.8 million by the end of this season, and worryingly for the 'ton, it appears the Rae family are on the verge of selling off their interests.

Hopefully our business model is better than Mortons!

The problem with any business relying on one backer or one customer is when they can’t or won’t keep investing serious problems occur.

The Weirs money should have been used to grow the club on a mid to long term timescale (academy) with the money saved from that used to ensure our balance sheet stays in the positive whilst trying to grow our income via sponsorship, ambassadors, and viable sellable revenue streams (Decent Jagszone, rental of conference facilities, good merchandise  etc)  whilst also engaging with current customer (fan base) to ensure the retention is high and looking to add to that.

[Jordanhill Jag]

5 hours ago, javeajag said:

I was operating on the update given to the jags trust by the CEO 

Again - its via a third party - verbal - why No formal Update - why all this verbal small Group stuff - strange way to communicate something they had hyped way beyond what it was ref the future of the Club ?  

[CotterJag]

23 hours ago, jlsarmy said:

We should be getting to Cup finals every now and again, over the last 25 years we’ve seen teams like Ross County, Inverness, Livingston, Motherwell, St Mirren , Falkirk, Dunfermline, St Johnstone and Queen of South all get to compete and sometimes win at major Cup finals .

There is absolutely no reason why we shouldn’t be part of that group of teams , maybe we’ll get our day in the sun one day if possibly the  “that’s the level we’re at syndrome changes “

Agree jls and I start every season thinking this could be our year.

Other than the current year, where the team wasn't up to it, we normally get some stinking cup draws, while others get home ties year in and year out.

With an improved team and some draws like this year, it could well be our turn in the coming years.

[sandy]

18 hours ago, Norgethistle said:

Ask yourself why no written update has been given on the progress of the training center on the official site?

Id be more worried about our rumoured need to ask for a sub from Colin Weir on a monthly basis to balance the books after already eating through the £900k parachute payment

I wouldn’t be surprised if our finances for this year are dreadful when accounts are published. Attendances down, money splurged at Christmas window. Nothing in terms of getting near a return through promotion. 

We are living beyond our means surely?

[Third Lanark]

36 minutes ago, sandy said:

I wouldn’t be surprised if our finances for this year are dreadful when accounts are published. Attendances down, money splurged at Christmas window. Nothing in terms of getting near a return through promotion. 

We are living beyond our means surely?

Yo my missed out money splurged on chancers in the summer, plus also spending money on paying Archibald and Paterson when they were let go

adds more to the living off our means. Now Barnsley are back in the championship will they hold onto Lindsay as this maybe our one major source of income if they sell him 

[Muscat Jag]

On 4/29/2019 at 3:04 PM, Garscube Road End said:

That doesn't matter. That's the way it was. Still a fact we spent nigh on 70 years there. 

Actually it does matter. Many times in the 70 years you refer to we finished outside the top 10 or 12. The structure of Scottish Football changed radically with reorganisation in the 70s and it's completely irrelevant to compare our recent history with that period. During those 70 years we won one major trophy, less than the likes of Clyde or East Fife, so perhaps we've never been very good. No matter, I'll be there on Saturday. 

[ARu-Strathbungo]

11 hours ago, sandy said:

I wouldn’t be surprised if our finances for this year are dreadful when accounts are published. Attendances down, money splurged at Christmas window. Nothing in terms of getting near a return through promotion. 

We are living beyond our means surely?

I would wager that our wages bill [including the previous management team] and the running costs of the club would amount to more than our income this year, simply as the business plan for season 2018 / 2019 assumed at least top 4 status, then play-offs and hopefully promotion back to the Premiership. We know that is what Alan Archibald wanted, and Gary Caldwell was hired in on that basis, and both AA and GC would have been allowed a budget to bring in players that would have 'guaranteed' a top 4 place.

Obviously the season has not panned out as anyone connected to PTFC would have wanted, survival in the Championship is completely crucial to us remaining a top flight club and although we might deride the Division 1 as 'seaside league / bucket and spade league' and consider it as being beneath us, if it has both Raith Rovers and Falkirk in it, it wont be the easiest league to win.

I think we may have lived beyond our means this season, so I sincerely hope the commercial management team at the club are fully committed to hiring out the facilities at Firhill to create an income stream away from football. It's my feeling that rich benefactors should not be depended on for the basics!

[Jaggernaut]

1 hour ago, ARu-Strathbungo said:

 

I think we may have lived beyond our means this season, so I sincerely hope the commercial management team at the club are fully committed to hiring out the facilities at Firhill to create an income stream away from football. It's my feeling that rich benefactors should not be depended on for the basics!

They should offer to hire it to the SAS, who can lay booby traps all over the place for their mates to find, or they can try to defend the bing against would-be invaders.... all exercises followed by lovely Powerpoint-enriched debriefings.

[ThistleBunnet]

Re. previous posts above about the training ground. I do believe as per the last update that it will go ahead. Yeah, it may be quite some time in the future but until I see anything but conjecture by some of the members of this forum who appear to just want to find something else to moan about then there is no evidence that the project has been binned!

From the Planning site it looks like we did submit a notice of intent and duly received comments back from the Council.

My understanding is that the major sticking point is regarding the junction of the access road where it meets the main road. T

In my professional experience I would think that the problem is that the current speed limit is 60mph but that the Council will require the 30mph limit to be extended from the edge of the built up area. This is not insurmountable but can take much time as various applications and public consultations have to be made.

Personally, I think that the club is probably taking things under advisement and looking for a get a round. In any case, once the dust settles over this hard season I would hope that there will be some sort of up-date from the club advising of revised timescale.

Note: if you are familiar with the Hummel Centre (Rangers Training Ground) I would suspect that they might have had same problem with speed limit coming into Milngavie and they managed to get round it.

[scotty]

2 hours ago, ThistleBunnet said:

Re. previous posts above about the training ground. I do believe as per the last update that it will go ahead. Yeah, it may be quite some time in the future but until I see anything but conjecture by some of the members of this forum who appear to just want to find something else to moan about then there is no evidence that the project has been binned!

From the Planning site it looks like we did submit a notice of intent and duly received comments back from the Council.

My understanding is that the major sticking point is regarding the junction of the access road where it meets the main road. T

In my professional experience I would think that the problem is that the current speed limit is 60mph but that the Council will require the 30mph limit to be extended from the edge of the built up area. This is not insurmountable but can take much time as various applications and public consultations have to be made.

Personally, I think that the club is probably taking things under advisement and looking for a get a round. In any case, once the dust settles over this hard season I would hope that there will be some sort of up-date from the club advising of revised timescale.

Note: if you are familiar with the Hummel Centre (Rangers Training Ground) I would suspect that they might have had same problem with speed limit coming into Milngavie and they managed to get round it.

The speed limit was moved about a couple of hundred metres in the last year or so when new housing development started on the site of Rob Roy's ground.  It will probably take the council years to do it again. ( I'm not sure but I've got it somewhere in my mind that changing the national speed limit boundarties is not in the council's remit).  At Rangers training ground there was a set of lights put in for a pedestrian crossing but I wouldn't think that would be necessary at the Kirkintilloch site as the footpath is only on one side of the road on the same side as the proposed training ground.

[ThistleBunnet]

1 hour ago, scotty said:

The speed limit was moved about a couple of hundred metres in the last year or so when new housing development started on the site of Rob Roy's ground.  It will probably take the council years to do it again. ( I'm not sure but I've got it somewhere in my mind that changing the national speed limit boundarties is not in the council's remit).  At Rangers training ground there was a set of lights put in for a pedestrian crossing but I wouldn't think that would be necessary at the Kirkintilloch site as the footpath is only on one side of the road on the same side as the proposed training ground.

Apparently council want training ground serviced by bus with a stop both sides of road and that therefore pedestrian crossing required.

[scotty]

24 minutes ago, ThistleBunnet said:

Apparently council want training ground serviced by bus with a stop both sides of road and that therefore pedestrian crossing required.

There are bus stops within a few minutes walk but it wouldn't surprise me coming from a council which designed Kirkintilloch town centre's shared space!

[sandy]

On 5/1/2019 at 10:58 AM, ARu-Strathbungo said:

I would wager that our wages bill [including the previous management team] and the running costs of the club would amount to more than our income this year, simply as the business plan for season 2018 / 2019 assumed at least top 4 status, then play-offs and hopefully promotion back to the Premiership. We know that is what Alan Archibald wanted, and Gary Caldwell was hired in on that basis, and both AA and GC would have been allowed a budget to bring in players that would have 'guaranteed' a top 4 place.

Obviously the season has not panned out as anyone connected to PTFC would have wanted, survival in the Championship is completely crucial to us remaining a top flight club and although we might deride the Division 1 as 'seaside league / bucket and spade league' and consider it as being beneath us, if it has both Raith Rovers and Falkirk in it, it wont be the easiest league to win.

I think we may have lived beyond our means this season, so I sincerely hope the commercial management team at the club are fully committed to hiring out the facilities at Firhill to create an income stream away from football. It's my feeling that rich benefactors should not be depended on for the basics!

This in (buckets and) spades