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Caldwell Like or Loathe


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7 hours ago, dl1971 said:

Who knows. Right now I want st mirren down. They along with Dundee are in freefall. Much like us last year. Hate to say it but Dundee United up probably improves our chances. So who will be challenging next year? Ayr likely to be weakened as Shankland and a few others away. Inverness probably a strong contender. Morton and Dunfermline. Doubt it. QOS if they survive? Dobbie one year older. Don't see it. Alloa? No chance barring a miracle. In my opinion a great chance next year. 

A great point 1971. A reasonable arguement on all the teams mentioned.

I've a sneaky that ICT will beat DUFC. St midden are far stronger than they were at the turn of the year but I suspect ICT will sweep them aside like livvy did to us. ICT are a big strong team and st Mirren have struggled against such teams this season. No excuse next season for your bestie GC? Straight promotion or will you allow a play off place?

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2 minutes ago, Fawlty Towers said:

My opinion for what it is worth is that Caldwell should be our manager next season. Does that mean I think he is the messiah - of course not. However taking everything in to consideration I think that he has done enough to start next season. Personally I am interested to see how he goes about pre season and what his plans are for recruitment. I know others feel differently but all I would ask is that we unite behind who ever is manager next season (if the Board decide to make a change then I will have to suck it up and get behind the new guy) because the greater good of Partick Thistle is what matters not who can shout the loudest because they did not get what they wanted.

Here here.

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Next season will be a big season for Caldwell as the team we start with will be his team. No excuse of having  to make do with the previous managers players until the next transfer window. Lets hope he gets it right and we are up at the top end of the league challenging.

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2 minutes ago, Auld Jag said:

Next season will be a big season for Caldwell as the team we start with will be his team. No excuse of having  to make do with the previous managers players until the next transfer window. Lets hope he gets it right and we are up at the top end of the league challenging.

The nucleus of the team are still Alan Archibald’s team 

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14 minutes ago, Auld Jag said:

Next season will be a big season for Caldwell as the team we start with will be his team. No excuse of having  to make do with the previous managers players until the next transfer window. Lets hope he gets it right and we are up at the top end of the league challenging.

 

10 minutes ago, jlsarmy said:

The nucleus of the team are still Alan Archibald’s team 

This transfer window will be the one that truly defines Caldwell as a Thistle manager. We have a good spine but there's an awful lot of players moving on.

Yes the nucleus is still players from the mccall/mcnamara/AA team but they are now singing and dancing to caldwells tune. He alone will be responsible for every player, team, formation etc. I sure hope he brings success to us, I really do.

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32 minutes ago, Auld Jag said:

Next season will be a big season for Caldwell as the team we start with will be his team. No excuse of having  to make do with the previous managers players until the next transfer window. Lets hope he gets it right and we are up at the top end of the league challenging.

Just surmising but we could be in a league that say contains the two Dundee clubs (one parachute loaded, the other seemingly money sound) , St Mirren (parachute loaded), Dunfermline (getting stronger financially year on year). Add the customary dark horse (eg like Ayr this season) into the fray and it's quite possible that we could improve significantly in form yet struggle to get a better place finish. I suppose I'm saying in a kind of way that a period of consolidation next season might not be viewed as a disappointment. 

What we need to see is progress, even if it's not as fast as we'd all like. Not faulting Caldwell's signings of the likes of Anderson, McDonald, Harkins, Saunders and Cardle in any way but it's not just experienced rabbits out the hat we'll be needing next season. We have to get the age of the starting XI down considerably. Plan for the future rather than a quick fix. I've no idea whatsoever whether Caldwell will be the man to carry that out.  

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2 hours ago, Thistleberight said:

A great point 1971. A reasonable arguement on all the teams mentioned.

I've a sneaky that ICT will beat DUFC. St midden are far stronger than they were at the turn of the year but I suspect ICT will sweep them aside like livvy did to us. ICT are a big strong team and st Mirren have struggled against such teams this season. No excuse next season for your bestie GC? Straight promotion or will you allow a play off place?

Lol. I think that depends on how we play and the quality of the other teams. Let's be honest if GC doesn't have the team challenging at the top he will be under pressure from the get go. As always the first 10 games crucial. 

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37 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

What we need to see is progress, even if it's not as fast as we'd all like. Not faulting Caldwell's signings of the likes of Anderson, McDonald, Harkins, Saunders and Cardle in any way but it's not just experienced rabbits out the hat we'll be needing next season. We have to get the age of the starting XI down considerably. Plan for the future rather than a quick fix. I've no idea whatsoever whether Caldwell will be the man to carry that out.  

This.

The winter transfer window was crying out for a quick fix. Not only did Caldwell have to clear out the utter garbage that Archie signed, but change the soft centre and mental weakness that saw us bottle so many leads and fail in crunch games. That was never going to happen overnight but progress has been made; the analogy about turning round an oil tanker is valid in our case. 

In this context I think he’s done ok but been harmed by the aiming for promotion sound bites when first appointed. Was never going to happen. I counter that with caution over some of the sh*te he comes out with and bizarre team selections at times. Equally he can make refreshingly bold subs and tactical switches to correct his initial mistakes!

So in summary, deserves the chance to build further over the summer and into next season imo and not deserving of the some of the constant whining and abuse dished out. 

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51 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

Just surmising but we could be in a league that say contains the two Dundee clubs (one parachute loaded, the other seemingly money sound) , St Mirren (parachute loaded), Dunfermline (getting stronger financially year on year). Add the customary dark horse (eg like Ayr this season) into the fray and it's quite possible that we could improve significantly in form yet struggle to get a better place finish. I suppose I'm saying in a kind of way that a period of consolidation next season might not be viewed as a disappointment. 

What we need to see is progress, even if it's not as fast as we'd all like. Not faulting Caldwell's signings of the likes of Anderson, McDonald, Harkins, Saunders and Cardle in any way but it's not just experienced rabbits out the hat we'll be needing next season. We have to get the age of the starting XI down considerably. Plan for the future rather than a quick fix. I've no idea whatsoever whether Caldwell will be the man to carry that out.  

Agree with all of the above, but also it's important to start well next season … always being regarded as relegation candidates started to get on everyone's nerves and although GC said differently, I am sure the players started to feel a bit hunted when we were either bottom or in the playoff position.

Only 70 days to go and we start the whole thing again … onwards and upwards!

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2 hours ago, Thistleberight said:

I'm more ambivalent to Caldwell now than I was and grudgingly agree he is worth being allowed a proper close season. For reasons posted before, we've strong spine, I'm looking forward to next season gar more than I expected. 

I do however disagree with your point that results since January have been excellent. That is, with respect, utter tosh. Dunfermline and Ross county were an utter shambles, proof alone in those two games we were far from excellent Mr Gary Caldwell in disguse

Apart from those two results and the Ayr home loss, we 've been good. Maybe not excellent. Stats for last ten games third best. 2 points behind inverness. If there is a form guide from January to yesterday I'm sure we will be 3rd or 4th at worse. If we take that form into next season id take that right now. Especially our away form. Improve our home form and hey presto we 'll be strong contenders. My last say on this as i realise im making the same point lol. Time to move on from boring stats :-)

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For three seasons (maybe even more?) in a row Thistle have had an absolutely horrendous opening few months, which seriously dents the confidence of the team and the supporters. If Caldwell (or whoever it is) can get us (looking like we are) in a strong position by Christmas next season, a lot more people will be feeling more positive about where we are going. Of course things can go wrong in the second half of the season and the atmosphere can change.... many Ayr fans have been having a right go at McCall lately, even though they've had a bad run of injuries to key players and have still qualified for the play-offs.

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The problem on this thread is that the people who want rid of Caldwell are painting those  who don't as accepting of mediocrity, or naive hero worshippers, when in fact most people who want Caldwell to stay are able to see the faults, are not 100% convinced, are disappointed with the season overall, but are realistic enough to know that he took over a team with problems and just think he has done enough to be given a chance. Very different.

There has to be more room for a bit of nuance, rather than this angry 'with us or against us' attitude, which dominates on most social media these days but I'd have thought we could get beyond on a Thistle fans' forum.

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10 minutes ago, allyo said:

The problem on this thread is that the people who want rid of Caldwell are painting those  who don't as accepting of mediocrity, or naive hero worshippers, when in fact most people who want Caldwell to stay are able to see the faults, are not 100% convinced, are disappointed with the season overall, but are realistic enough to know that he took over a team with problems and just think he has done enough to be given a chance. Very different.

There has to be more room for a bit of nuance, rather than this angry 'with us or against us' attitude, which dominates on most social media these days but I'd have thought we could get beyond on a Thistle fans' forum.

Well articulated sir. 

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10 minutes ago, allyo said:

The problem on this thread is that the people who want rid of Caldwell are painting those  who don't as accepting of mediocrity, or naive hero worshippers, when in fact most people who want Caldwell to stay are able to see the faults, are not 100% convinced, are disappointed with the season overall, but are realistic enough to know that he took over a team with problems and just think he has done enough to be given a chance. Very different.

There has to be more room for a bit of nuance, rather than this angry 'with us or against us' attitude, which dominates on most social media these days but I'd have thought we could get beyond on a Thistle fans' forum.

Agree there entirely.

Also if folk on here that criticise Caldwell were to support their argument with specifics as opposed to nebulous stats and subjective comment it would be more understandable. Believe me there's no shortage of material. Similarly those who defend him on every instance should do likewise.  Again there's positives to be taken from his tenure. 

Important questions should be...Has Caldwell learned from those specified mistakes? is there qualitative evidence of him improving as a manager? If the answers to these aren't affirmative then he should be shown the door today. My own opinion is there's signs of learning and improvement. A bit tentative but positives all the same. 

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11 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

Agree there entirely.

Also if folk on here that criticise Caldwell were to support their argument with specifics as opposed to nebulous stats and subjective comment it would be more understandable. Believe me there's no shortage of material. Similarly those who defend him on every instance should do likewise.  Again there's positives to be taken from his tenure. 

Important questions should be...Has Caldwell learned from those specified mistakes? is there qualitative evidence of him improving as a manager? If the answers to these aren't affirmative then he should be shown the door today. My own opinion is there's signs of learning and improvement. A bit tentative but positives all the same. 

You have quoted no specific qualitative evidence to support your subjective comment..........but I do agree with you!

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16 hours ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

Just surmising but we could be in a league that say contains the two Dundee clubs (one parachute loaded, the other seemingly money sound) , St Mirren (parachute loaded), Dunfermline (getting stronger financially year on year). Add the customary dark horse (eg like Ayr this season) into the fray and it's quite possible that we could improve significantly in form yet struggle to get a better place finish. I suppose I'm saying in a kind of way that a period of consolidation next season might not be viewed as a disappointment. 

What we need to see is progress, even if it's not as fast as we'd all like. Not faulting Caldwell's signings of the likes of Anderson, McDonald, Harkins, Saunders and Cardle in any way but it's not just experienced rabbits out the hat we'll be needing next season. We have to get the age of the starting XI down considerably. Plan for the future rather than a quick fix. I've no idea whatsoever whether Caldwell will be the man to carry that out.  

Great points, elegantly put. I fear not many football fans show enough patience with a long term plan but ours do. Our club is ripe for that type of strategy especially with (dare I mention it?), the new training ground pending. I'd be happy with an improved performance next season, say in the mix for play off place towards last round of games. I just don't want us fighting off relegation all season again. A good start is essential for any club in any league. Too often in recent times including seasons in the top league weve6been playing catch up, points and signing of players.

I get the impression Caldwell will be better organised in the signing department than AA and his team were. No knowledge to support that assertion, just a feeling.

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5 hours ago, allyo said:

The problem on this thread is that the people who want rid of Caldwell are painting those  who don't as accepting of mediocrity, or naive hero worshippers, when in fact most people who want Caldwell to stay are able to see the faults, are not 100% convinced, are disappointed with the season overall, but are realistic enough to know that he took over a team with problems and just think he has done enough to be given a chance. Very different.

There has to be more room for a bit of nuance, rather than this angry 'with us or against us' attitude, which dominates on most social media these days but I'd have thought we could get beyond on a Thistle fans' forum.

Totally agree.

I want him to be our manager next season buy I still have deep reservations about his management ability. These  viewpoints are not mutually exclusive as some seem to believe

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As the Massive 7 Days thread has now been locked, I just wanted to take this opportunity to say...

Sandy, Semi, Third Lanark, Javeajag, Dark Passenger, Thistleberight, Garscube Road End, Jordanhill Jag, the lot of ye... YEEZ ARE AW A BUNCH A' NUMPTEEZ!!!!

:music:

Edited by allyo
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On 5/5/2019 at 9:57 PM, lady-isobel-barnett said:

Just surmising but we could be in a league that say contains the two Dundee clubs (one parachute loaded, the other seemingly money sound) , St Mirren (parachute loaded), Dunfermline (getting stronger financially year on year). Add the customary dark horse (eg like Ayr this season) into the fray and it's quite possible that we could improve significantly in form yet struggle to get a better place finish. I suppose I'm saying in a kind of way that a period of consolidation next season might not be viewed as a disappointment. 

What we need to see is progress, even if it's not as fast as we'd all like. Not faulting Caldwell's signings of the likes of Anderson, McDonald, Harkins, Saunders and Cardle in any way but it's not just experienced rabbits out the hat we'll be needing next season. We have to get the age of the starting XI down considerably. Plan for the future rather than a quick fix. I've no idea whatsoever whether Caldwell will be the man to carry that out.  

Not according to this:

https://dafc.co.uk/story.php?t=DAFC_Board_Statement:_End_of_season_2018/19&ID=11232

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12 minutes ago, allyo said:

As the Massive 7 Days thread has now been locked, I just wanted to take this opportunity to say...

Sandy, Semi, Third Lanark, Javeajag, Dark Passenger, Thistleberight, Garscube Road End, Jordanhill Jag, the lot of ye... YEEZ ARE AW A BUNCH A' NUMPTEEZ!!!!

:music:

Cheers Allyo, we love you too ;)

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