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javeajag

Doolan

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1 minute ago, Woodstock Jag said:

Caldwell should have given him 10 minutes on Saturday.

Ideally, he should have had a candid conversation about his plans with Doolan before the season’s end.

The Club should have allowed him to tell his family before telling the public.

Given his length of service they should have allowed him, formally and on the website itself, to put his thanks to the fans on the record and in his own words.

They should have shown a bit of ****ing empathy.

That’s a reasonable answer....

im not really fussed about the 10 minute tbh I think it’s overdone.....the other two points are reasonable 

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2 minutes ago, javeajag said:

The relevance is that a football club also employs people like Doolan for example and in plenty places I have worked they announced people were leaving weeks before they actually left  .....I can just as easily see the club being criticised for not announcing it and then social media is covered with rumours

so what us wrong about announcing it before he has physically left the club ? Happens all the time in football ...x is leaving at the end of the season 

Indeed there are plenty of announcements of players leaving at the end of the season. Usually on a pre contract to someone else or of their own volition. Not when you are told that you aren't being offered a contract and then booted out of the club the same morning and announcing it before he left the ground or could digest it all. It is very clear that Caldwell knew he wasn't going to keep him

 Why not intimate that before QOS game?.

He didn't play him after all. Completely classless.

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2 minutes ago, Garscube Road End said:

Why not intimate that before QOS game?.

Because we might have been in the playoffs ?!

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1 minute ago, javeajag said:

Because we might have been in the playoffs ?!

So you suspect that Doolan would have downed tools if we had been and he might have been picked? Clearly you can't see what a mess the club have made of this.

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1 hour ago, Lenziejag said:

Before I get shot down in flames again. The way it has been handled is terrible. BUT, it shouldn’t have been a total shock to him. Archie showed loyalty when offered the Shrewsbury job and got fired a few months later. Doolan didn’t just stay out of loyalty. He enjoyed working at Thistle. There is no loyalty from football clubs

Though I’m sidetracking a bit He didn’t turn down Shrewsbury by the time the club gave permission to talk to them it was already too late as Shrewsbury had got someone else. I’m afraid the turning down Shrewsbury is a myth

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4 minutes ago, Garscube Road End said:

So you suspect that Doolan would have downed tools if we had been and he might have been picked? Clearly you can't see what a mess the club have made of this.

I never said any of that....I simply stated a fairly obvious reason why you wouldn’t tell players their contractual situation till after the season ends.....don’t make things up please 

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19 minutes ago, javeajag said:

I never said any of that....I simply stated a fairly obvious reason why you wouldn’t tell players their contractual situation till after the season ends.....don’t make things up please 

It is important javea. The implication (even if you don’t think Doolan would ever down tools) is that Caldwell thinks he would.

Thats actually more insulting to a guy like Kris.

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6 minutes ago, Woodstock Jag said:

It is important javea. The implication (even if you don’t think Doolan would ever down tools) is that Caldwell thinks he would.

Thats actually more insulting to a guy like Kris.

There is no evidence for any of that ....it was my suggestion that you wouldn’t tell players their contractual position till after the season ends not Caldwell’s ! And I don’t think Caldwell thought that of  Doolan ....your speculating that’s the reason then behaving as though it’s true !

 

 

 

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I don't believe that they didn't announce Doolan's departure before the QOS game because they feared Doolan would down tools. I think they didn't announce it because in a week that the squad was asked to pick the team they couldn't afford the negative publicity ahead of such a big game. They knew that if they did it in the close season there would be no opportunity for fans to voice their displeasure until pre-season and hopefully by then the anger would have reduced.

In my opinion Caldwell didn't put Doolan on for the last 10 as firstly he hadn't told him it was over and secondly he wanted the only story to be of Caldwell's success in keeping Thistle in the league

At no point was there thinking ever about Kris or how best to treat an employee that had been very loyal to the club.

They could have sat down with Kris on Sunday told him that it was over and came up with a joint statement that best helped both parties. For example if the statement had been emphasing the testimonial arrangements as an opportunity for the fans to say goodbye properly. Perhaps even announce a couple of big names that would play in the testimonial.

Yesterday's statement read like it had been hammered out on Monday with input from our chairwoman and manager alone. They've learned nothing from how they misshandled Erskine leaving.

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Paying tribute to the Thistle number nine, Chairman, Jacqui Low said:

“Kris is, and always will be, a legend at Partick Thistle Football Club. Legend is an overused word but he has earned that title. The service he has given to the Club both on and off the pitch is almost unmatched.

“From his debut in red and yellow through to his first steps into coaching, Kris deserves an inordinate amount of credit and his efforts will not be forgotten.

“On behalf of everyone at Partick Thistle, I would like to put on record my sincere thanks to him for his service as a player. But I’d personally also like to thank him as a person for all he did for the Club off the pitch. Kris will always be welcome here and we wish him all the very best for the future.”

Jags manager, Gary Caldwell, said:

“From the first day I came into the football club, Kris has been a consummate professional and I can’t fault him. The contribution he has made to Partick Thistle will likely never again be matched and his achievements speak for themselves. He has scored some vital goals this season and he leaves with the best wishes of me and everyone at the football club.”

 

Nice words from our chairman and manager. Good luck Kris. 

 

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1 hour ago, Woodstock Jag said:

Caldwell should have given him 10 minutes on Saturday.

Ideally, he should have had a candid conversation about his plans with Doolan before the season’s end.

The Club should have allowed him to tell his family before telling the public.

Given his length of service they should have allowed him, formally and on the website itself, to put his thanks to the fans on the record and in his own words.

They should have shown a bit of ****ing empathy.

This in spades. 

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Some people here are trying to defend the indefensible; let’s agree Dools is a Thistle legend and that his departure could have been managed with more respect & tact.

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8 minutes ago, AlwaysOutnumbered... said:

Paying tribute to the Thistle number nine, Chairman, Jacqui Low said:

“Kris is, and always will be, a legend at Partick Thistle Football Club. Legend is an overused word but he has earned that title. The service he has given to the Club both on and off the pitch is almost unmatched.

“From his debut in red and yellow through to his first steps into coaching, Kris deserves an inordinate amount of credit and his efforts will not be forgotten.

“On behalf of everyone at Partick Thistle, I would like to put on record my sincere thanks to him for his service as a player. But I’d personally also like to thank him as a person for all he did for the Club off the pitch. Kris will always be welcome here and we wish him all the very best for the future.”

Jags manager, Gary Caldwell, said:

“From the first day I came into the football club, Kris has been a consummate professional and I can’t fault him. The contribution he has made to Partick Thistle will likely never again be matched and his achievements speak for themselves. He has scored some vital goals this season and he leaves with the best wishes of me and everyone at the football club.”

 

Nice words from our chairman and manager. Good luck Kris. 

 

False flag.

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4 minutes ago, laukat said:

I don't believe that they didn't announce Doolan's departure before the QOS game because they feared Doolan would down tools. I think they didn't announce it because in a week that the squad was asked to pick the team they couldn't afford the negative publicity ahead of such a big game. They knew that if they did it in the close season there would be no opportunity for fans to voice their displeasure until pre-season and hopefully by then the anger would have reduced.

In my opinion Caldwell didn't put Doolan on for the last 10 as firstly he hadn't told him it was over and secondly he wanted the only story to be of Caldwell's success in keeping Thistle in the league

At no point was there thinking ever about Kris or how best to treat an employee that had been very loyal to the club.

They could have sat down with Kris on Sunday told him that it was over and came up with a joint statement that best helped both parties. For example if the statement had been emphasing the testimonial arrangements as an opportunity for the fans to say goodbye properly. Perhaps even announce a couple of big names that would play in the testimonial.

Yesterday's statement read like it had been hammered out on Monday with input from our chairwoman and manager alone. They've learned nothing from how they misshandled Erskine leaving.

Can't argue with much of this. Releasing the news on Twitter at pretty much the same time as Doolan was informed was clearly an attempt to manage the story. I don't agree that it was 'mishandled' or 'amateurish': it was a very deliberate attempt to handle what was clearly going to be a train wreck for the club. The comments from the chairman and the manager we're obviously prepared in advance. There are not stupid people: all of the alternatives, from offering a contract to discussing the move in advance, would have been considered. This was the direction they chose to go. It was cold blooded. I think the manager and the chair will be judged by the same standards in the future. Either they bring the club success, or they go. No room for emotion, eh?

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7 minutes ago, Firhillista said:

Can't argue with much of this. Releasing the news on Twitter at pretty much the same time as Doolan was informed was clearly an attempt to manage the story. I don't agree that it was 'mishandled' or 'amateurish': it was a very deliberate attempt to handle what was clearly going to be a train wreck for the club. The comments from the chairman and the manager we're obviously prepared in advance. There are not stupid people: all of the alternatives, from offering a contract to discussing the move in advance, would have been considered. This was the direction they chose to go. It was cold blooded. I think the manager and the chair will be judged by the same standards in the future. Either they bring the club success, or they go. No room for emotion, eh?

In my view emotion is earned. Kris Doolan earned the right to have his feelings taking into consideration when dealing with his departure.

Caldwell has done nothing so far that will make me upset should results next season lead to his departure. The way he's going they might be able to sell tickets for that day.

Who is holding Low to account? What targets have they set her and how do we know if she has achieved them?

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25 minutes ago, sandy said:

Some people here are trying to defend the indefensible; let’s agree Dools is a Thistle legend and that his departure could have been managed with more respect & tact.

Put aside whether Doolan's time as a Jags player was over or not and turn above around. If anybody feels his departure was handled well I'd be interested to know why they're of that opinion. The more that agree it was all handled fine the less we have to worry about the Club being run poorly.

Edited by lady-isobel-barnett

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There is a lot of steam being let off in the direction of the Chair and the Manager in this matter. There is, however, one senior member of PTFC who is conspicuous by his silence.

Et tu Britton?

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8 hours ago, Jaggernaut said:

I wrote on another thread that last season I didn't get a season ticket for the first time in many years.

I was thinking about renewing for the season ahead, even though I probably won't get to any games.

But that money will now get spent on other things.

I've been feeling a disconnect with the club of late that has been getting bigger and bigger. 

Me too. Said it already that there is a huge disconnect with the club and fans. Feel so sad about that but do remember it being the same in the past under people like Miller Reid. So I guess the small crumb of comfort is that nothing lasts forever and one day in the near future there'll be a new manager, new coaching staff, new chief exec, new board, new chairperson, and even sooner new players.

Having had last night to seeth and digest, I guess dools leaving was always going to happen at some point and although my initial anger was at him being allowed to leave/thrown out/discarded, it's really anger about how the club now goes about it's business.

It's been done, if the stories are true, in a very cold hearted manner, and does not paint a favourable picture of jlow, Britton nor Caldwell.

I have decided not to get season tickets for us this coming season. Nor will there be any sponsorship from us. Why would I when I don't feel part of the club

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2 hours ago, Garscube Road End said:

After digesting this news and reading this particular page on the forum it is clear that it has divided opinion rather violently. I would say more people are upset than are bothered about it. I don't think the issue is all about the fact that Doolan was released, it was the way it was handled, similar to the Erskine move. Totally inept and amateurish. The main three protagonists at the club, Low, Britton and Caldwell have shown a distinct lack of class over these issues and a few more. That is the worrying thing for me about this particular season. Since the new year Low and Britton have largely been hiding. The promised regular communication never materialising.

On the Doolan issue we have lost an upstanding g member of the whole Scottish football community. A guy who us clearly respected by his fellow professionals. I have no doubt wherever he goes he will be an asset to them and may come back to haunt us. Such as the man he is he will have no hesitation in banging in the goals against us if we come up to face him, a true professional.

The fact we talk about Boyd and Miller being linked rather irks in that I believe they are spent forces in the game and would only be disruptive characters in the dressing room.

Let's hope we can move on and be successful. I am holding my breath.

 

2 hours ago, javeajag said:

This seems to be the key issue : what was the right way to handle it ?

Couldn't agree more, it shows the disconnection between club and fans just now. No place for board fan alignment (no place on board or any committee. Totalitarianism  in the raw 

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5 minutes ago, MMCF said:

There is a lot of steam being let off in the direction of the Chair and the Manager in this matter. There is, however, one senior member of PTFC who is conspicuous by his silence.

Et tu Britton?

Could be he is on holiday and the chairman covering for him. I do mind Maxwell being away at this time as it makes sense to be around from the beginning of June onwards. just saying, but the silence is deafening.

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The club has wanted rid of the ‘ cuddly ,slightly eccentric ‘ image that is often portrayed by the media . Well they have certainly done this with how they have treated Kris.

Cold hearted ruthlessness now describes how our club is run. Loyalty is scorned. 

Hang your heads in shame Lowe , Caldwell & Britton.

 

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21 minutes ago, MMCF said:

There is a lot of steam being let off in the direction of the Chair and the Manager in this matter. There is, however, one senior member of PTFC who is conspicuous by his silence.

Et tu Britton?

Its certainly a legitimate question to ask if Gerry was involved and if not why not

However if our chairwoman and manager need the Chief exec around to show them how to manage this situation does it not further question Low and Caldwell's abilities?

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23 minutes ago, laukat said:

Its certainly a legitimate question to ask if Gerry was involved and if not why not

However if our chairwoman and manager need the Chief exec around to show them how to manage this situation does it not further question Low and Caldwell's abilities?

Yesterday between 8;30 - 10;30 our Chairman ( as she prefers to be called )  was giving a Breakfast talk at a Law Firm on "Partick Thistle on and off the pitch " - it was very insightful & entertaining according to those who attended  

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Kris Doolan has been binned because he doesn't fit with the direction that Gary Caldwell (with Jacqui Low's approval - and perhaps also Gerry Britton's) wants to take the Club in.

So Doolan doesn't fit with this new direction.

But does the conduct of those in charge fit with the direction that the Club's supporters (from occasional pay-at-the-gate fans all the way up to major sponsors) want to see the Club taken in?

The Club's support, under the present regime, are beginning to feel alienated from the Club. It's been fiasco after fiasco this season. The fare on the pitch hasn't been great, but anyone who's supported Thistle for any length of time has seen that many times before - but we keep coming back because we love the Club, its identity, and what it stands for. It's the other stuff. The SAS training farce, the treatment of Chris Erskine, the training ground saga, envelope-gate, the monthly updates, and - to top all of those - the shoddy treatment of the Club's most distinguished player of recent times.

This is dangerous stuff.

The Board and management have been extremely - let's be kind - accident-prone in this last year. The place just doesn't feel like it's in safe hands.

 

Edited by ScottyDFA

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It would probably do some at the club no harm to read the article in the link below and take on board the advice offered

https://www.coachesvoice.com/gary-caldwell-on-managing-wigan-athletic-chesterfield/

In particular I would highlight the following

"At Chesterfield, I wasn’t one of them. I needed to connect with the players more. Connect with the fans quicker. I needed to let them know who I was as quickly as possible, so they could buy into what I was trying to do.

That relationship with the fans can buy you time. In the beginning, that’s what you’re trying to do. Every result buys you another week. You try to keep adding those up to get you more time. But you can’t build anything unless you get that initial period to connect."

"Second, I wouldn’t change as many players. That might sound contradictory, given what I’ve just said. And we made some really good signings – Dan Burn, Nick Powell, Nathan Byrne – but by bringing them in it upset the group we had and the spirit we’d created.

I should have just brought in one or two, stuck with the rest until January and done it all a bit more slowly."

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