jlsarmy Posted May 16, 2019 Report Share Posted May 16, 2019 5 minutes ago, east end jag said: What l took from last night was that he realised promotion wasn't going to happen very quickly after he was appointed. Knowing that, and identifying that the team needed a 'spine' to ensure we could better compete, he went to work on that. Part of the 'only spent a third' was put down to Gerry getting players out. He made a point of saying that player psychology is important in the modern game and on appointment our team was incredibly fragile. A significant element of the January recruitment seemed based on dealing with that and he mentioned Cardle, Anderson and McDonald as being good to have in the dressing room for dealing with this. My conclusion on this is that l don't think he ever thought one or two players would get us in a position to reach a play off position. He aimed for safety with his actions and anything else would have been a bonus. Personally think Gary would have been a fantastic politician as nothing is ever his fault, under Archibald those same fragile players were winning games and do you know most of these so called “ fragile players “ Bannigan, Slater, Mcginty Penrice ,Fitzpatrick are still at the Club or were till very recently Dools and Elliott and Storey moving on. It’s too simplistic to whitewash the first part of the season , the players who were moved on weren’t first team regulars . Probably a more pertinent reason is they couldn’t adapt to Caldwell’s new regime . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted May 16, 2019 Report Share Posted May 16, 2019 Just now, jlsarmy said: Personally think Gary would have been a fantastic politician as nothing is ever his fault, under Archibald those same fragile players were winning games and do you know most of these so called “ fragile players “ Bannigan, Slater, Mcginty Penrice ,Fitzpatrick are still at the Club or were till very recently Dools and Elliott and Storey moving on. It’s too simplistic to whitewash the first part of the season , the players who were moved on weren’t first team regulars . Probably a more pertinent reason is they couldn’t adapt to Caldwell’s new regime . This. Our manager blames everyone but himself. Remember he was skilled enough to impress the interview panel that he had a dossier on everyone of Archie’s signings, and knew how to get the best out of them! In Season 2019-20 he can’t have that excuse. He will stand or fall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Third Lanark Posted May 16, 2019 Report Share Posted May 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, sandy said: This. Our manager blames everyone but himself. Remember he was skilled enough to impress the interview panel that he had a dossier on everyone of Archie’s signings, and knew how to get the best out of them! In Season 2019-20 he can’t have that excuse. He will stand or fall. And you blame everything on the manager agree he will stand or fall next season- not that you will be worried since you claimed you were taking a break Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaf Posted May 16, 2019 Report Share Posted May 16, 2019 5 minutes ago, jlsarmy said: Personally think Gary would have been a fantastic politician as nothing is ever his fault, under Archibald those same fragile players were winning games and do you know most of these so called “ fragile players “ Bannigan, Slater, Mcginty Penrice ,Fitzpatrick are still at the Club or were till very recently Dools and Elliott and Storey moving on. It’s too simplistic to whitewash the first part of the season , the players who were moved on weren’t first team regulars . Probably a more pertinent reason is they couldn’t adapt to Caldwell’s new regime . Add to your list O'Ware will be coming back from injury, Sneddon who fought off GC's GK loan signing, and we have just signed Gordon (an Archie loan signing made permanent) I am not disagreeing with anyone who thinks otherwise, but it doesn't entirely stack up Brice however - oh yes, fragile! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted May 16, 2019 Report Share Posted May 16, 2019 1 minute ago, Third Lanark said: And you blame everything on the manager agree he will stand or fall next season- not that you will be worried since you claimed you were taking a break Oh Matt, please. I’m taking a break next season...which hasn’t started yet. Get with the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted May 16, 2019 Report Share Posted May 16, 2019 Just now, jaf said: Add to your list O'Ware will be coming back from injury, Sneddon who fought off GC's GK loan signing, and we have just signed Gordon (an Archie loan signing made permanent) I am not disagreeing with anyone who thinks otherwise, but it doesn't entirely stack up Brice however - oh yes, fragile! O’Ware should be immense, Sneddon has grown a pair. That’s good news. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Third Lanark Posted May 16, 2019 Report Share Posted May 16, 2019 Just now, sandy said: Oh Matt, please. I’m taking a break next season...which hasn’t started yet. Get with the game. The only game is your witch-hunt sandy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted May 16, 2019 Report Share Posted May 16, 2019 32 minutes ago, east end jag said: What l took from last night was that he realised promotion wasn't going to happen very quickly after he was appointed. Knowing that, and identifying that the team needed a 'spine' to ensure we could better compete, he went to work on that. Part of the 'only spent a third' was put down to Gerry getting players out. He made a point of saying that player psychology is important in the modern game and on appointment our team was incredibly fragile. A significant element of the January recruitment seemed based on dealing with that and he mentioned Cardle, Anderson and McDonald as being good to have in the dressing room for dealing with this. My conclusion on this is that l don't think he ever thought one or two players would get us in a position to reach a play off position. He aimed for safety with his actions and anything else would have been a bonus. Yet Britton was stating in January that promotion was the goal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaf Posted May 16, 2019 Report Share Posted May 16, 2019 1 minute ago, Third Lanark said: And you blame everything on the manager agree he will stand or fall next season- not that you will be worried since you claimed you were taking a break What will be judged as success or failure? Its likely to be a weak league - finishing above a Shankland-less Ayr, part time Arbroath and Alloa, a cash strapped Morton and Dunfermline, and a Dykes-less QOS should be a given I would say, which would leave us 4th at worst as par, so what does success look like - promoted, 1st, 2nd, 3rd? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Third Lanark Posted May 16, 2019 Report Share Posted May 16, 2019 1 minute ago, jaf said: What will be judged as success or failure? Its likely to be a weak league - finishing above a Shankland-less Ayr, part time Arbroath and Alloa, a cash strapped Morton and Dunfermline, and a Dykes-less QOS should be a given I would say, which would leave us 4th at worst as par, so what does success look like - promoted, 1st, 2nd, 3rd? Must make playoffs at very least imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted May 16, 2019 Report Share Posted May 16, 2019 1 minute ago, jaf said: What will be judged as success or failure? Its likely to be a weak league - finishing above a Shankland-less Ayr, part time Arbroath and Alloa, a cash strapped Morton and Dunfermline, and a Dykes-less QOS should be a given I would say, which would leave us 4th at worst as par, so what does success look like - promoted, 1st, 2nd, 3rd? Success - Promotion without bankrupting us Failure- No promotion with or without bankrupting us 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted May 16, 2019 Report Share Posted May 16, 2019 3 minutes ago, jaf said: Add to your list O'Ware will be coming back from injury, Sneddon who fought off GC's GK loan signing, and we have just signed Gordon (an Archie loan signing made permanent) I am not disagreeing with anyone who thinks otherwise, but it doesn't entirely stack up Brice however - oh yes, fragile! Didn’t mention Shea Gordon or Tam O’ware , knew they were injured and weren’t at Caldwell’s disposal when he took over but a lot of the so called “ fragile players “ are still there maybe Gary has made them less fragile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted May 16, 2019 Report Share Posted May 16, 2019 3 minutes ago, Norgethistle said: Yet Britton was stating in January that promotion was the goal They were still saying that in April 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted May 16, 2019 Report Share Posted May 16, 2019 9 minutes ago, Third Lanark said: The only game is your witch-hunt sandy @admin send for the nurses! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaf Posted May 16, 2019 Report Share Posted May 16, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Third Lanark said: Must make playoffs at very least imo For the reasons given in my post, I think that's not really success, thats what anyone should be able to do - we are talking about a well paid manager here who wa recruited to achieve promotion and this will be two transformative transfer windows on - surely we can expect better than 'par'? BTW, I expected us to be 5th last season so not known for being unrealistic! Edited May 16, 2019 by jaf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaf Posted May 16, 2019 Report Share Posted May 16, 2019 7 minutes ago, Norgethistle said: Success - Promotion without bankrupting us Failure- No promotion with or without bankrupting us Bang on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Exile Posted May 16, 2019 Report Share Posted May 16, 2019 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Norgethistle said: Success - Promotion without bankrupting us Failure- No promotion with or without bankrupting us Norge, do you mind if I squeeze “one last chance depending on performances” if we make the playoff spots but fail to get promoted?Dundee with the parachute payments, St Mirren with the parachute payments or Caley Thistle. And Ourselves. Someone’s going to be disappointed. Edited May 16, 2019 by London Exile Forgot about Dundee Utd of course Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted May 16, 2019 Report Share Posted May 16, 2019 3 minutes ago, jaf said: For the reasons given in my post, I think that's not really success, thats what anyone should be able to do - we are talking about a well paid manager here who wa recruited to achieve promotion and this will be two transformative transfer windows on - surely we can expect better than 'par'? BTW, I expected us to be 5th last season so not known for being unrealistic! Not so sure Jaf , a lot of the signings in January were stop gap signings to save us from getting relegated, either 6 month contracts or loan signings, think there is still a big rebuild to be done to even remotely think about promotion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaf Posted May 16, 2019 Report Share Posted May 16, 2019 7 minutes ago, jlsarmy said: Not so sure Jaf , a lot of the signings in January were stop gap signings to save us from getting relegated, either 6 month contracts or loan signings, think there is still a big rebuild to be done to even remotely think about promotion I agree about the stop gap signings I just think anything less than 4th would be complete failure given the other teams and their present resources I think lesser paid managers could achieve 4th in that league next season and so our expectation levels for a manager recruited with the goal of promotion, ought to be promotion If we judge him by lesser criteria, I am not sure where we go next. (although I accept London Exiles addition to Norges post) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Third Lanark Posted May 16, 2019 Report Share Posted May 16, 2019 16 minutes ago, London Exile said: Norge, do you mind if I squeeze “one last chance depending on performances” if we make the playoff spots but fail to get promoted?Dundee with the parachute payments, St Mirren with the parachute payments or Caley Thistle. And Ourselves. Someone’s going to be disappointed. Might even be Hamilton instead of St Mirren? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That 1 jags fan Posted May 16, 2019 Report Share Posted May 16, 2019 (edited) 43 minutes ago, jlsarmy said: Personally think Gary would have been a fantastic politician as nothing is ever his fault, under Archibald those same fragile players were winning games and do you know most of these so called “ fragile players “ Bannigan, Slater, Mcginty Penrice ,Fitzpatrick are still at the Club or were till very recently Dools and Elliott and Storey moving on. It’s too simplistic to whitewash the first part of the season , the players who were moved on weren’t first team regulars . Probably a more pertinent reason is they couldn’t adapt to Caldwell’s new regime . “These players where winning games” I agree with Dools Bannigan and Elloitt and at a push Penrice but considering that since signed Slater , McGinty, Stroey and Fitzpatrick have either nearly or have been relegated with us then that just doesn’t make sense. Edited May 16, 2019 by That 1 jags fan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted May 16, 2019 Report Share Posted May 16, 2019 1 hour ago, jlsarmy said: Personally think Gary would have been a fantastic politician as nothing is ever his fault, under Archibald those same fragile players were winning games and do you know most of these so called “ fragile players “ Bannigan, Slater, Mcginty Penrice ,Fitzpatrick are still at the Club or were till very recently Dools and Elliott and Storey moving on. It’s too simplistic to whitewash the first part of the season , the players who were moved on weren’t first team regulars . Probably a more pertinent reason is they couldn’t adapt to Caldwell’s new regime . I must go back and remind myself who max melbourne was.....Archie’s squad was utter mince let’s not rewrite history We know you and sandy hate Caldwell with a passion but I’m not sure what attacking him daily in every issue is meant to achieve he will be here next season and if results are good he will stay and if not I expect he won’t last till Xmas ....why not just accept that and move on ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted May 16, 2019 Report Share Posted May 16, 2019 1 hour ago, jaggot said: that sandy guy is a t*sser @admin, another call for the nurse & curtains; help Jaggot with his medication Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thistle88 Posted May 16, 2019 Report Share Posted May 16, 2019 (edited) For next season so far we have a decent base already.. Think everyone would agree that Sneddon deserves the chance to start as our number 1 next season between the sticks. Young keeper who looks very confident for his age. RB. Williamson, don't remember him at all but he's been playing in the championship for a while and is still young. Apparently looked very promising before injury so fingers crossed he's another stephen Od. LB. Penrice, he now has a full season under his belt and hopefully has learned from it. CB. Big Tam O .. fingers crossed will be fit and ready to go.. think he was probably our best signing at the start of last season. CB. Steven Saunders, I actual have found him a bit of a liability but just a slight improvement on Keown. Hope we get an upgrade. Cm. Banzo... loving him getting back to his best. Cm. Gordon .. improved our midfield without any doubt when he returned from injury, box to box midfielder a team needs Am. Slater. Decent footballer but not a first pick imo. Am. Harkins great player to bring on at the end of a game but shouldn't start. Forward. Fitzpatrick obviously not a striker and should be used as a winger but just going with what we have. Adding to this team.. I actually think we should at least have a play off spot.. Forgot about Mcginty who for the last 4 or 5 games out with McDonald was our best player.. i wanted him gone after half the season, but he's completely changed my mind. The only thing is can be play like that without some1 like Anderson talking him through the game? Time will tell. Edited May 16, 2019 by Thistle88 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paralytic thistle Posted May 16, 2019 Report Share Posted May 16, 2019 30 minutes ago, sandy said: @admin, another call for the nurse & curtains; help Jaggot with his medication and don't forget the machine that goes ping Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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