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A night with GC


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4 hours ago, Thistleberight said:

So on the back of all this optimism, I guess the fact that Gordon and cardle have "re signed" is an indication that there is a happy dressing room or they wouldn't have come near the place again having escaped. I am sharing this optimism cos that's one of the traits that makes us Thistle fans. I'm still, though struggling with the mad cap way that the dools release was handled and the lack of communication from jlow and GB to wards the fans but then again I guess there's been more important thing to attend to than that given our precarious position for most of the season. 

Just a footnote that the board and team management need to take their customers in the journey with them. Without us there is no club. We are the lifeblood and at times recently have been taken for granted somewhat. One really important issue that needs addressed is a fan appointment to the board even just as an observer. So there is a direct line of communication. Perhaps there could be a voting system through season ticket or trust members, if fans were to put themselves forward for the task. Just thinking out loud

Yes all of the above is worthy of discussion and debate but, IMO, the most obvious method of having a voice that reaches right to the top is a valid and active supporters association with an elected member having a place on the BoD. Not sure if the disconnect between the BoD, the supporters association and the supporters who buy ticket to the football matches has been addressed in the last few years?

[I'm not sure if this subject is 'off-topic' to the 'a night with GC' discussion stream, I don't think influence of the supporters association(s) was part of the managers discussion / presentation]

Maybe this is something that could be addressed during a 'night with J. Low and G Brittan'? Not sure if either would be interested in this kind of face to face connection with fans, but I think it is something that should / could be considered during the coming season? Even if they only invited ST holders to the discussion??

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1 hour ago, ARu-Strathbungo said:

Yes all of the above is worthy of discussion and debate but, IMO, the most obvious method of having a voice that reaches right to the top is a valid and active supporters association with an elected member having a place on the BoD. Not sure if the disconnect between the BoD, the supporters association and the supporters who buy ticket to the football matches has been addressed in the last few years?

[I'm not sure if this subject is 'off-topic' to the 'a night with GC' discussion stream, I don't think influence of the supporters association(s) was part of the managers discussion / presentation]

Maybe this is something that could be addressed during a 'night with J. Low and G Brittan'? Not sure if either would be interested in this kind of face to face connection with fans, but I think it is something that should / could be considered during the coming season? Even if they only invited ST holders to the discussion??

Cracking point ARu, elected rep from the supporters association makes perfect sense.

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I've just read the whole thread in a wanny. Take home message: suspicion. Did someone say that he said that the team have to 'peak' in January? Aye that's handy when you should have been sacked at Christmas. If we have a diabolical pre-Christmas period then he walks, no ifs and no buts. If we have a great start then great, and he's a visionary after all and we'll all back him. A player's character is much more important than kicking balls, saving from set-pieces, and putting the ball in that net thing after all. 

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On 5/15/2019 at 10:03 PM, jlsarmy said:

First all not being a Gary Caldwell fan , I have to say he was very eloquent and came across well .

If I was playing Devils Advocate , it looks like he overanalyses things on the park . Seems to be big on fitness which is fine as long as you’ve got ability to go with it . Think the way it was set up with no microphones at the back didn’t help and I think Gary Caldwell and Gerry got off lightly with some of the questions.

Gary Caldwell mentioned his preferred system of 3 - 5 -2  and is obviously big on stats but playing that system you need 2 wing backs who are going to bomb forward and give us width and get assists , last year Penrice had 2 assists , Christie Elliott had 4 , these stats were conveniently not mentioned 

Were told that the reserve team was getting scrapped but no mention of how we’re going to fill the void and give the youngsters a pathway to the first team ( Glasgow Cup excepted )

Think they all got off lightly regarding the treatment of Kris Doolan and it’ll be interesting to see who they bring in , at this moment we’ve no strikers and if they bring in 2 or 3 strikers as good as Doolan I’d be surprised.

Training Academy is slightly behind because of Planning etc.

No mention of scouting system apart from a internet scouting system 

Give Caldwell credit for fronting up but I’m far from convinced we’re on the right lines .

 

Can you elaborate more on this internet scouting system? Is this just for potential signings and is it stats based? I wondering if it's like the sort of system Brentford use a la moneyball that costs a few grand.

No mention of scouting future opposition and what the set up is?

Gutted I couldn't make the night, surely it shouldn't have been a surprise that 230 fans would want to go?!

 

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15 minutes ago, ThistleD said:

Can you elaborate more on this internet scouting system? Is this just for potential signings and is it stats based? I wondering if it's like the sort of system Brentford use a la moneyball that costs a few grand.

No mention of scouting future opposition and what the set up is?

Gutted I couldn't make the night, surely it shouldn't have been a surprise that 230 fans would want to go?!

 

Think it’s called Wyscout and there is a platform for it on the internet

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Scouting used to be the beating heart of clubs like Thistle, is it the academy system everyone has that has ended this? Or do other clubs still have scouting teams.

How do we populate the academy teams if it's not a scouting network that identifies kids playing football for schools, scouts, local boys, clubs etc then approaches the parents with a view to getting their kid sign up for the academy or is the academy full of kids who are if mixed ability cos it's places are paid for by the parents? Genuine question.

When I was much younger I helped coach a kids team in springburn and we had scouts at games fairly regularly. Two of the kids got taken to clubs and eventually made the break through. Can I assure that their respective parents could never have afforded to pay for their kids to attend an academy. 

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29 minutes ago, Thistleberight said:

Scouting used to be the beating heart of clubs like Thistle, is it the academy system everyone has that has ended this? Or do other clubs still have scouting teams.

How do we populate the academy teams if it's not a scouting network that identifies kids playing football for schools, scouts, local boys, clubs etc then approaches the parents with a view to getting their kid sign up for the academy or is the academy full of kids who are if mixed ability cos it's places are paid for by the parents? Genuine question.

When I was much younger I helped coach a kids team in springburn and we had scouts at games fairly regularly. Two of the kids got taken to clubs and eventually made the break through. Can I assure that their respective parents could never have afforded to pay for their kids to attend an academy. 

Seems by the sound of it that the scouting in general has fallen by the wayside, if there's no academy scouting or future opposition scouting? Have we not got a scout from the Cambridge area? Maybe he identified the likes of McGinty as a possible signing. 

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1 hour ago, jlsarmy said:

Think it’s called Wyscout and there is a platform for it on the internet

A scout in Spain went to see a young player in the 5th tier of Spanish Football - they played in Tenerife - the Club was San Isidro  about 10 km North of the Airport - when he saw the team play he saw another young player who he thought was better and signed him as well 

The other young player was Pedro signed for Barca aged 18 - Bobby Dinnie watched thousands of games - Archie - Kenny Arthur - Dools - Erskine 

Bobby didnt drive or possess a mobile phone  

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

A scout in Spain went to see a young player in the 5th tier of Spanish Football - they played in Tenerife - the Club was San Isidro  about 10 km North of the Airport - when he saw the team play he saw another young player who he thought was better and signed him as well 

The other young player was Pedro signed for Barca aged 18 - Bobby Dinnie watched thousands of games - Archie - Kenny Arthur - Dools - Erskine 

Bobby didnt drive or possess a mobile phone  

 

 

Our Academy system doesn’t work, we’re discarding young players at 17/18 .

Young players all progress and develop at different ages , we’re actually not letting them reach their full development and making a judgment on them at 17 or 18 yrs of age and a lot of them just give up the game completely.

If it’s a financial thing then you’re looking at the SFA to subsidise a little bit to see if some of these youngsters can progress , after all it’s the future of our game .

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I didn't get a ticket for the session so its great to hear from those that were there.

I would be interested if he expanded on why he is keen on 3-5-2?

We really struggled with that formation particularly at home and with the current squad we only have 3 centrebacks signed so it means another 1 or 2 to come in. I think it places quite a reliance on O'Ware as he's probably the only one that is comfortable enough on the ball to play in the centre of a 3.

Also not clear where Cardle or Fitzpatrick play in a 3-5-2?

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1 hour ago, ThistleD said:

Seems by the sound of it that the scouting in general has fallen by the wayside, if there's no academy scouting or future opposition scouting? Have we not got a scout from the Cambridge area? Maybe he identified the likes of McGinty as a possible signing. 

McGinty came from Torquay, he was recommended to Archie by Balatoni who also had a spell at Torquay 

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Don’t think Caldwell will ever be loved by the Thistle support:mainly due to his perceived arrogant/abrasive manner. This was further exacerbated by his perceived treatment of 2 ‘Thistle men’ in Erskine and Doolan.

Of course football and football supporters being what they are, Caldwell’s popularity will rest solely on his performances on the pitch a his resultant success or more accurately relative success.

I’m personally conflicted about our manager mainly for the reasons set out ion the first paragraph above. However, I feel that it is only due to Caldwell that we stayed up this season. In particular his signing of Scot MacDonald has got to b up there with the most influential signings of recent times. Even if it was necessarily short-term it undoubtedly saved our bacon this season.

Football today does not lend itself to long term strategic decisions-the opposite is true. Caldwell will live or die on the basis of his transfer and loan dealings this summer. I can only wish him well and hope that his contacts at both Easter Road and Celtic Park allow us access to some decent loanees? I wouldn’t mind the wee boy Dembele for a season?:fan:

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2 hours ago, ThistleD said:

Seems by the sound of it that the scouting in general has fallen by the wayside, if there's no academy scouting or future opposition scouting? Have we not got a scout from the Cambridge area? Maybe he identified the likes of McGinty as a possible signing. 

Dunno ThistleD, McGinty came through the Manchester United youth academy so unlikely as cambridge is a helluva distance from Manchester.

Bobby Dinnie was head scout for us back in the day. I don't know if he got a wage or if he got a cut of a fee?

I don't think we need scouting of opposition for general games as there is so much TV coverage from even the home clubs recording footage, but I do think we are missing a trick. One of my mates dad was head of scouting for Scotland and north England for Manchester city in the 90's. He got a wage if sorts but got his travel expenses and got into as many games for free due to club reciprocal agreement. Would something like this appeal to ex players who are say over 60 and who have a pension. Their motivation would be that they wouldn't have to put their hands in their own pockets and would be involved in football, kind of idea. Or if they identified a future star they'd get a cut of a transfer fee? Just thinking out loud.

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8 minutes ago, Thistleberight said:

Dunno ThistleD, McGinty came through the Manchester United youth academy so unlikely as cambridge is a helluva distance from Manchester.

Bobby Dinnie was head scout for us back in the day. I don't know if he got a wage or if he got a cut of a fee?

I don't think we need scouting of opposition for general games as there is so much TV coverage from even the home clubs recording footage, but I do think we are missing a trick. One of my mates dad was head of scouting for Scotland and north England for Manchester city in the 90's. He got a wage if sorts but got his travel expenses and got into as many games for free due to club reciprocal agreement. Would something like this appeal to ex players who are say over 60 and who have a pension. Their motivation would be that they wouldn't have to put their hands in their own pockets and would be involved in football, kind of idea. Or if they identified a future star they'd get a cut of a transfer fee? Just thinking out loud.

 

Good shout re ex pro's fella. 

Yeah I knew McGinty was at Man U and Torquay sorry I should have quantified my point. I thought the scout from Cambridge was maybe a scout for league 2/conference potential signings?! Sandbank has said that big Conrad recommended McGinty which I didn't know. Hoping for a big season from McGinty. 

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3 hours ago, Thistleberight said:

Scouting used to be the beating heart of clubs like Thistle, is it the academy system everyone has that has ended this? Or do other clubs still have scouting teams.

How do we populate the academy teams if it's not a scouting network that identifies kids playing football for schools, scouts, local boys, clubs etc then approaches the parents with a view to getting their kid sign up for the academy or is the academy full of kids who are if mixed ability cos it's places are paid for by the parents? Genuine question.

When I was much younger I helped coach a kids team in springburn and we had scouts at games fairly regularly. Two of the kids got taken to clubs and eventually made the break through. Can I assure that their respective parents could never have afforded to pay for their kids to attend an academy. 

When did we ever have a decent scouting system that wasn’t one man called Bobbie Dinnie ?!

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4 hours ago, jlsarmy said:

Our Academy system doesn’t work, we’re discarding young players at 17/18 .

Young players all progress and develop at different ages , we’re actually not letting them reach their full development and making a judgment on them at 17 or 18 yrs of age and a lot of them just give up the game completely.

If it’s a financial thing then you’re looking at the SFA to subsidise a little bit to see if some of these youngsters can progress , after all it’s the future of our game .

The problem now is that there are few options for the 17/18 year olds who will not get a game for the first team. If we kept them on and put them out to the lower leagues we would still have to contribute to their wages.

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1 hour ago, Fawlty Towers said:

That was good, looks like a good night, and a forum I hope they continue to use throughout the season.

Regarding the earlier comments regarding scouts, I heard that Morton have had the guy Graham Carr along at some games. Now that guy was an incredibly successful scout for Newcastle a few years ago … I wonder if Morton have some ideas to get him onboard to help build their squad?

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6 minutes ago, ARu-Strathbungo said:

That was good, looks like a good night, and a forum I hope they continue to use throughout the season.

Regarding the earlier comments regarding scouts, I heard that Morton have had the guy Graham Carr along at some games. Now that guy was an incredibly successful scout for Newcastle a few years ago … I wonder if Morton have some ideas to get him onboard to help build their squad?

I remember reading last year around about October, that an English club was looking into having Morton as a sort of feeder club. The guy Carr was mentioned as being at Morton games along with others to do with Newcastle.

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Just watched the first two clips. Let's be honest most football fans haven't anything like the football acumen they think they have. That includes me! Really illuminating to see how we have changed tactically. The cry from the stands next year will be " counterpress ffs".

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