javeajag Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 3 hours ago, KemoAvdiu said: Again, I’m not even necessarily criticising the redundancies. I’m criticising the absolutely crass and tone-deaf statement that justifies people losing their jobs because it’ll (I’m paraphrasing) allow us to get in an extra loanee or two from Wigan. Any person with any feel for how to manage this type of process - or actually to manage people in general - can see that’s incredibly tasteless and classless, surely? They are irrelevant to the criticisms I’m making of the board/club leadership’s current management of the club. I’m not sure what David Beattie’s role was in writing that statement, to give one small example. Or Billy Allan’s role in how the Doolan situation was handled, to give another. The statement is factually correct....I guess what your saying is don’t say it even though it’s correct ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 7 hours ago, Dark Passenger said: Perhaps he shouldn't have f****d off when things took a turn for the worse. Here for the good times... Actually thats not true - he took over from Alan Cowan and the Colly left - then Jackie took over - we finished Mid Table - then a Season With Jackie - just ok - then Promo Season - so he was here before we were promoted - he wanted to step down couple of times previously but was talked out of it - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 2 hours ago, jaf said: Its PR bullsh!t to mention it goes to playing budget - probably to dampen criticism You have a finite income - although from some thing I have heard dwindling may be better description but lets use finite You have that income to spend The less that goes on off field costs, the more there is for players Ergo , any cut in costs (when you are debt free) must increase the player budget - unless you are wanting to make a profit and generate positive cash The facts are you can spend money on a pr person or a player ....you choose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 1 minute ago, javeajag said: The statement is factually correct....I guess what your saying is don’t say it even though it’s correct ? What he is saying is show a bit of regret in laying people off - thank them for there efforts - don't try and spin it that there is some sort of bigger plan ref playing budget - we should have downsized last Season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 1 minute ago, javeajag said: The facts are you can spend money on a pr person or a player ....you choose So we made that choice last Season ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 Just now, Jordanhill Jag said: What he is saying is show a bit of regret in laying people off - thank them for there efforts - don't try and spin it that there is some sort of bigger plan ref playing budget - we should have downsized last Season I agree we should have downsized last season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 1 minute ago, Jordanhill Jag said: So we made that choice last Season ? Last season we decided to avoid the hard calls - the board being soft and nice imo - we agree on this actually Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 5 hours ago, javeajag said: The facts are you can spend money on a pr person or a player ....you choose If the PR person brings in more via hospitality and sponsorship than his/hers wages then you keep the PR person Hospitality and sponsorship uptake last year was by all accounts very high, this season with our handling of situations we will struggle with various ST holders, ambassadors and sponsors stating they won’t take up this year, so how do we generate new ST holders, ambassadors (71 club now) and sponsors? We fire the guy that helped bring these in last few years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 1 hour ago, Norgethistle said: If the PR person brings in more via hospitality and sponsorship than his/hers wages then you keep the PR person Hospitality and sponsorship uptake last year was by all accounts very high, this season with our handling of situations we will struggle with various ST holders, ambassadors and sponsors stating they won’t take up this year, so how do we generate new ST holders, ambassadors (71 club now) and sponsors? We fire the guy that helped bring these in last few years And if he applies for and gets the new role ? this is a legal process affecting all backroom staff remember Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 11 hours ago, KemoAvdiu said: Not one person is saying we shouldn’t look to get players in, bla bla bla. What people are saying is that it’s absolutely classless to announce people’s redundancies (people with mortgages to pay and kids to feed) and end the statement by saying their wages will fund new signings. If you can’t see that as being as crass as it gets then fine. And nobody is defending the previous board (I’m not). They’re irrelevant to the conversation. They didn’t write that statement, they haven’t been responsible for the atrocious communications over the past year, and they aren’t currently running the club in a way that is making a decent amount of sponsors and others disengage from the club. If you’re happy with how the club is being run then fine, but many aren’t. Which sponsors are disengaging ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunfermline Jag Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 I'm sure it is comfort to those losing their jobs that so many supporters think - and are prepared to say - that they should have been out of the door LAST year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 7 minutes ago, Dunfermline Jag said: I'm sure it is comfort to those losing their jobs that so many supporters think - and are prepared to say - that they should have been out of the door LAST year. We should have managed our costs down as our revenue is down following relegation ....or we could keep all the backroom staff and reduce the number and quality of the playing squad its easy to criticise tough choices if you never have to make them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 14 hours ago, Garscube Road End said: What a distasteful announcement. Cutting people loose then in the same statement saying the money saved will go on the playing budget. Thid board and chairman are utterly crass and classless. Couldn't agree more. Let people go by all means if you don't have any money, that would makes sense. Staggering to let an employee(s) go to save 20k?? Do the club pay anyone a decent living wage is it's only 20k? I am flabbergasted at this incompetence. Who holds these people to account. Clearly not us. Clearly they are acting in a vacuum and don't give a toss about fans or their staff. Thanks to all staff for their honest efforts and I hope they get a job sorted out quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KemoAvdiu Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 4 hours ago, javeajag said: We should have managed our costs down as our revenue is down following relegation ....or we could keep all the backroom staff and reduce the number and quality of the playing squad its easy to criticise tough choices if you never have to make them Tough choices are fine if they’re handled in a classy way. This wasn’t. Tough choices aren’t always as tough as they seem though. Asking a rich benefactor to write a cheque for a training camp in Tenerife but not asking for a cheque to sustain successful members of staff in employment? Strikes me as misplaced values, there. But there we are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 4 hours ago, Thistleberight said: Couldn't agree more. Let people go by all means if you don't have any money, that would makes sense. Staggering to let an employee(s) go to save 20k?? Do the club pay anyone a decent living wage is it's only 20k? I am flabbergasted at this incompetence. Who holds these people to account. Clearly not us. Clearly they are acting in a vacuum and don't give a toss about fans or their staff. Thanks to all staff for their honest efforts and I hope they get a job sorted out quickly. Clearly you have no understanding of the clubs finances Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 15 hours ago, javeajag said: The facts are you can spend money on a pr person or a player ....you choose Always assuming he or she is professional, my choice would be the PR person. If it was just someone who believes our recent public releases are the dogs bollocks then, in terms of damage limitation, I'd rather we spend the money re-signing Henoc Mukendi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaf Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 15 hours ago, javeajag said: The facts are you can spend money on a pr person or a player ....you choose That's my point exactly, so any cut in non playing staff increases the playing budget, so why must that be mentioned ad nauseum, its a basic fact The other point is, as I understand it, PR people are not the ones whose jobs are under threat, so your interpretation of the question is a little flawed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 7 hours ago, Thistleberight said: Couldn't agree more. Let people go by all means if you don't have any money, that would makes sense. Staggering to let an employee(s) go to save 20k?? Do the club pay anyone a decent living wage is it's only 20k? I am flabbergasted at this incompetence. Who holds these people to account. Clearly not us. Clearly they are acting in a vacuum and don't give a toss about fans or their staff. Thanks to all staff for their honest efforts and I hope they get a job sorted out quickly. Is the 20K not the saving that will be made by not opening the Colin Weir stand ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dl1971 Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 8 minutes ago, Lenziejag said: Is the 20K not the saving that will be made by not opening the Colin Weir stand ? That was my understanding. Otherwise why not keep it open....if there are no savings. Nb why should Mr Weir put his hand in his pocket to potentially save jobs while at the same time the stand named after him is being effectively mothballed? Worth highlighting that without the Weir largesse we would be in the grubber. I'm picking up a strange feeling that some fans would rather we were not fortunate to have had this windfall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 29 minutes ago, dl1971 said: That was my understanding. Otherwise why not keep it open....if there are no savings. Nb why should Mr Weir put his hand in his pocket to potentially save jobs while at the same time the stand named after him is being effectively mothballed? Worth highlighting that without the Weir largesse we would be in the grubber. I'm picking up a strange feeling that some fans would rather we were not fortunate to have had this windfall. Before the Weirs cash we were trading at a profit and a sustainable business. Since his cash we seem to have stopped all the business models that got us their relying on his cash. That is no fault of Colin Weir but of those running our club. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fawlty Towers Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 1 hour ago, Norgethistle said: Before the Weirs cash we were trading at a profit and a sustainable business. Since his cash we seem to have stopped all the business models that got us their relying on his cash. That is no fault of Colin Weir but of those running our club. I would have to point out that we had to sell Harkins to pay the taxman and were lucky that Dundee were being run by someone willing to pay over the odds. I also recall a meeting at which our then chairman was lambasted for telling us how much it costs to replace a floodlight bulb and the accounts (easily found on Companies House) do not show profits at that time. That is not to say we, as a club, have not made mistakes recently but let us not rewrite history either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thru thin and thin Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 My concern is, that although we have to cut our cloth accordingly at a time like this. As far as I am aware, our current Board of Directors have no financial investment in the Club? They have nothing to lose by the decisions they make! However, other stakeholders in the Club - Players, Staff, Sponsors and Supporters are affected by their decisions. We should not have One financial investor in Colin Weir, too risky! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 10 hours ago, javeajag said: We should have managed our costs down as our revenue is down following relegation ....or we could keep all the backroom staff and reduce the number and quality of the playing squad its easy to criticise tough choices if you never have to make them There is tough and there is basic economics - thats what they are there for to make the correct choices - we kept on ALL the office staff - including two FT Comms people ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 3 minutes ago, thru thin and thin said: My concern is, that although we have to cut our cloth accordingly at a time like this. As far as I am aware, our current Board of Directors have no financial investment in the Club? They have nothing to lose by the decisions they make! However, other stakeholders in the Club - Players, Staff, Sponsors and Supporters are affected by their decisions. We should not have One financial investor in Colin Weir, too risky! This !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 1 hour ago, Fawlty Towers said: I would have to point out that we had to sell Harkins to pay the taxman and were lucky that Dundee were being run by someone willing to pay over the odds. I also recall a meeting at which our then chairman was lambasted for telling us how much it costs to replace a floodlight bulb and the accounts (easily found on Companies House) do not show profits at that time. That is not to say we, as a club, have not made mistakes recently but let us not rewrite history either. Incorrect - this was a previous Board the one that got us promoted traded at a profit for two Seasons before the Weirs Harkins ( and dont forget Twaddle) were not part of trading at a profit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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