Jump to content

State of Play


Firhillista
 Share

Recommended Posts

4 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Incorrect - this was a previous Board the one that got us promoted traded at a profit for two Seasons before the Weirs 

Harkins ( and dont forget Twaddle) were not part of trading at a profit 

 

Jim, the statement made by Stuart was:

"Before the Weirs cash we were trading at a profit and a sustainable business"

The period I made reference to was before the Weirs cash so is correct. If Stuart had stated that under a particular Board we traded at a profit and as a sustainable business then I would have agreed. It might seem a little pedantic but I am a civil servant after all. I am fully aware that under David Beattie's chairmanship things were much improved.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Fawlty Towers said:

Jim, the statement made by Stuart was:

"Before the Weirs cash we were trading at a profit and a sustainable business"

The period I made reference to was before the Weirs cash so is correct. If Stuart had stated that under a particular Board we traded at a profit and as a sustainable business then I would have agreed. It might seem a little pedantic but I am a civil servant after all. I am fully aware that under David Beattie's chairmanship things were much improved.

We had one Season in the Championship One Season in the Premier - both profitable this was Pre Weir involvement - Stuart is correct 

The Season you refer to was before two Stuart refers to ..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

We had one Season in the Championship One Season in the Premier - both profitable this was Pre Weir involvement - Stuart is correct 

The Season you refer to was before two Stuart refers to ..

Jim, I know that and I agree with it but that was not what was stated. I realise that you knew what Stuart meant (so did I) but the statement made was not precise and I just think it is important we are careful with words.

Edited by Fawlty Towers
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, jaf said:

That's my point exactly, so any cut in non playing staff increases the playing budget, so why must that be mentioned ad nauseum, its a basic fact

The other point is, as I understand it, PR people are not the ones whose jobs are under threat, so your interpretation of the question is a little flawed

A little pedantic......we have a limited budget which is pretty fixed every pound spent on non playing staff could be spent on players .....the choice has to be made you can’t just pretend we don’t now have severe financial constraints 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

There is tough and there is basic economics - thats what they are there for to make the correct choices - we kept on ALL the office staff - including  two FT Comms people ? 

Agreed....I think there was an element of either wishful thinking or head in the sand 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There was a certain element of serendipity when we sold Harkins to Dundee. Had Harkins been temporarily unavailable to sign (on holiday for instance) it's highly likely that Dundee would have completed the signing of Bob Harris from Q o S. As it turned out Melville at Dens Pk pulled the plug after the signing of Harkins. From what I'm led to believe had it gone the other way, without the sale of Harkins, it's highly likely our cash flow would have come unstuck by mid autumn that year.

The only point I'm trying to make is in highlighting a certain amount of good fortune exceeding good fiscal management under the regime back then. McCall had his faults but had he not converted Harkins from an inept centreback into an attacking midfielder we could easily have wandered into administration a decade ago.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You can't rewrite history. It's the future that counts. We should have stabilised in the SPL and done more....but we didn't. Most clubs would be jealous of the financial support the  Weirs have given us. But we are moaning because we have only ONE benefactor. Yes I get the point about we have to stand on our own two feet....but jeesus sometimes we just have to say we have been very fortunate in these challenging times. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Dark Passenger said:

This was the board that also got us relegated and, if you and norge are to be believed, set us on the path to dependency, yes?

Relegation does not lead to dependancy - poor decisions on how you run the Club Finances leads to dependancy - Ive not however stated that - Ive questioned our finances ? 

Same Board got us a top six finish / your being selective 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Relegation does not lead to dependancy - poor decisions on how you run the Club Finances leads to dependancy - Ive not however stated that - Ive questioned our finances ? 

Same Board got us a top six finish / your being selective 

I don't see it as selective. They did both. You guys know more than I know, but as far as I can see it was the previous people who made the decisions to maintain a premier budget and retain Alan Archibald. 

This left the current people in a difficult situation coming in. 

I'm not defending them, I don't really have a "side" in this debate, but would you not agree that this is true?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, Lenziejag said:

Is the 20K not the saving that will be made by not opening the Colin Weir stand ?

Personally I'm supportive of what the club have to do to keep us trading. If it is a choice between maintaining a club to go and support and pushing into more debt to try and get promoted then it's an easy choice. 

I'm not having a go at the board for cutting back as @Firhillista is suggesting, if it's the difference between the above two choices then carry on and make sure the club survives financially and to hang with promotion. I just think that the decision to sack/let go an employee who has proven his worth in  bringing additional income streams into the club just to save 20k is the wrong decision. 20k put into the playing squad is not going to get us much and if RQ maintained previous performance he would bring in more money than the 20k that is being saved. I just think it is a false economic decision. And I'm not saying for a minute I would do any better but I wouldn't have done that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, allyo said:

I don't see it as selective. They did both. You guys know more than I know, but as far as I can see it was the previous people who made the decisions to maintain a premier budget and retain Alan Archibald. 

This left the current people in a difficult situation coming in. 

I'm not defending them, I don't really have a "side" in this debate, but would you not agree that this is true?

Only Two Directors left Post relegation - therefore the other Directors that remained were both Party to and must have agreed with the decision - therefore Im not giving those who resigned a Free Pass - but they are no longer there   - as it became clear that the Revenues and Crowds were not  anywhere near the premier and that chances of Promotion were highly unlikely they should have addressed the overhead - instead they just saying Promotion was the Plan - and kept an overhead to reflect this - now you can say Promotion is the Aim - but Plan for not going up thats two different things - one is an objective the other is a reflection of reality 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok. So this brutal regime that is ripping the heart out of the club should have been sacking people earlier. Is that the argument here? Or do you just mean shutting the stand, that sort of thing. 

I assume you are not opposed to the mid season signings, which I reckon saved us from league 1.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, allyo said:

Ok. So this brutal regime that is ripping the heart out of the club should have been sacking people earlier. Is that the argument here? Or do you just mean shutting the stand, that sort of thing. 

I assume you are not opposed to the mid season signings, which I reckon saved us from league 1.

No, one of the arguments on here is that no matter what the board, CEO or manager do, it's wrong.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

League prize money for all clubs just announced.  The difference of finishing even a place or 2 higher would have made an significant difference. I hope we didn’t budget expected prize money on promotion and this cash is a bonus.

Ladbrokes Premiership

Celtic – £2,058,999.60

Rangers – £1,115,000.40

Kilmarnock – £794,000.40

Aberdeen – £573,999.60

Hibernian – £464,000.40

Heart of Midlothian – £354,000.00

St Johnstone – £453,000.00

Motherwell – £398,000.40

Livingston – £342,999.60

Hamilton Academical – £288,000.00

St Mirren – £233,000.40

Dundee – £177,999.60

Ladbrokes Championship

Ross County – £402,960.00

Dundee United – £313,959.60

Inverness Caledonian Thistle – £241,959.60

Ayr United – £169,959.60

Greenock Morton – £94,359.60

Partick Thistle – £69,960.00

Dunfermline Athletic – £58,959.60

Alloa Athletic – £47,960.40

Queen of the South – £36,960.00

Falkirk – £25,959.60

Ladbrokes League 1

Arbroath – £62,408.40

Forfar Athletic – £44,607.60

Raith Rovers – £23,408.40

Montrose – £21,207.60

Airdrieonians – £19,008.00

Dumbarton – £16,808.40

East Fife – £14,607.60

Stranraer – £12,408.00

Stenhousemuir – £10,208.40

Brechin City – £8,007.60

Ladbrokes League 2

Peterhead – £27,996.00

Clyde – £25,796.40

Edinburgh City – £23,595.60

Annan Athletic – £21,396.00

Stirling Albion – £17,996.40

Cowdenbeath – £15,795.60

Queen's Park – £13,596.00

Elgin City – £11,396.40

Albion Rovers – £9,195.60

Berwick Rangers – £6,996.00

Total – £9,122,438.40

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Geeeeezus, that's pretty crushing figures for the "smaller" clubs. And I include us in that category. So our income stream is this, gates, match day sales, merchandise and any income from charging parents for sending their kids to the academy. It's not much. Shows why RC benefited from a sugar dad in Roy macgregor. I'm seeing more and more why the savings are being made, and why they should have been done sooner. Don't have to like it though.

Anyone know of any other income the club gets? Is this figure from elevenone including TV revenue.

Edited by Guest
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm actually surprised at how flat it is, with significant overlap between the leagues.

Where's the incentive for being promoted from league 1 to league 2? Financially better off just finishing second in league 2 every year and then throwing the play off 

Edited by allyo
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, elevenone said:

League prize money for all clubs just announced.  The difference of finishing even a place or 2 higher would have made an significant difference. I hope we didn’t budget expected prize money on promotion and this cash is a bonus.

Ladbrokes Premiership

Celtic – £2,058,999.60

Rangers – £1,115,000.40

Kilmarnock – £794,000.40

Aberdeen – £573,999.60

Hibernian – £464,000.40

Heart of Midlothian – £354,000.00

St Johnstone – £453,000.00

Motherwell – £398,000.40

Livingston – £342,999.60

Hamilton Academical – £288,000.00

St Mirren – £233,000.40

Dundee – £177,999.60

Ladbrokes Championship

Ross County – £402,960.00

Dundee United – £313,959.60

Inverness Caledonian Thistle – £241,959.60

Ayr United – £169,959.60

Greenock Morton – £94,359.60

Partick Thistle – £69,960.00

Dunfermline Athletic – £58,959.60

Alloa Athletic – £47,960.40

Queen of the South – £36,960.00

Falkirk – £25,959.60

Ladbrokes League 1

Arbroath – £62,408.40

Forfar Athletic – £44,607.60

Raith Rovers – £23,408.40

Montrose – £21,207.60

Airdrieonians – £19,008.00

Dumbarton – £16,808.40

East Fife – £14,607.60

Stranraer – £12,408.00

Stenhousemuir – £10,208.40

Brechin City – £8,007.60

Ladbrokes League 2

Peterhead – £27,996.00

Clyde – £25,796.40

Edinburgh City – £23,595.60

Annan Athletic – £21,396.00

Stirling Albion – £17,996.40

Cowdenbeath – £15,795.60

Queen's Park – £13,596.00

Elgin City – £11,396.40

Albion Rovers – £9,195.60

Berwick Rangers – £6,996.00

Total – £9,122,438.40

St.Johnstone and Motherwell who finished below Hearts get more. How does that work ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I’m not sure how they arrived at St J and Motherwell getting more cash than Hearts?  Points earned maybe as I think both might have ended with more than Hearts??  Also as allyo points out seems odd that finishing yearly in top half of League2 is more an incentive than finishing in bottom half of League1.  

 

Edited by elevenone
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, elevenone said:

I’m not sure how they arrived at St J and Motherwell getting more cash than Hearts?  Points earned maybe as I think both might have ended with more than Hearts??  Also as allyo points out seems odd that finishing yearly in top half of League2 is more an incentive than finishing in bottom half of League1.  

 

Thanks elevenone never thought of that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, dl1971 said:

So even if we did invest money to go to Tenerife that money was essentially recovered by our increased league placing. Pity we never caught Morton though....

We shouldn’t have had to do that with the budget we had last season, mismanaged totally between Archie and Caldwell.

No other team on lesser budgets deemed it necessary to go to a “ training camp “ , the 25k could have got us another player for next season.

Other teams round about us in the league like Dunfermline, Morton and part time Alloa all won games without having to do that .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, elevenone said:

I’m not sure how they arrived at St J and Motherwell getting more cash than Hearts?  Points earned maybe as I think both might have ended with more than Hearts??  Also as allyo points out seems odd that finishing yearly in top half of League2 is more an incentive than finishing in bottom half of League1.  

 

I think St J got 1 more point - Motherwell less. In any case the only incentive for getting into the top 6 is the hope you have a home game or 2 versus Rangers and Celtic ?

I think it is a typo - should be 454,000

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, jlsarmy said:

We shouldn’t have had to do that with the budget we had last season, mismanaged totally between Archie and Caldwell.

No other team on lesser budgets deemed it necessary to go to a “ training camp “ , the 25k could have got us another player for next season.

Other teams round about us in the league like Dunfermline, Morton and part time Alloa all won games without having to do that .

25k wouldn't get much of a player....Anyway what budget did Caldwell mismanage? I think the vast majority of his signings did well, bar Roy. Mansell I'm not sure about but I doubt we spent much. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, dl1971 said:

25k wouldn't get much of a player....Anyway what budget did Caldwell mismanage? I think the vast majority of his signings did well, bar Roy. Mansell I'm not sure about but I doubt we spent much. 

Gary Harkins 18 month contract?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...