Pinhead Posted May 28, 2019 Report Share Posted May 28, 2019 4 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said: This isnt true - the Chairman has alluded to zero funding from the Weirs but in essence doesnt actually say that - now if we were getting zero funding why not just say Colin Weir does not fund us beyond the Academy in any shape or form - however instead we get a very carefully worded statement -- leaving it wide open to interpitation - so if we are not being funded - why bother with the statement So why is it important - ok read closely - we reciecved circa £850K when relegated - we then have our Annual income on top of that - we are told we didnt touch the Cash reserves - looks good - but what about the £850K additional funding ? We were promoted on Championship turnover - instead we avioded relegation using an additional £850K - now if thats used up - thats a massive level of cash burn in the Championship - so knowning a) where our funding comes from and b) how fast we spend cash is important - I accept Fans arent interested - but take a look at Falkirk etc etc they are in the shit due to cashflow - what happens off the park affects what happens on it - so its not about detial - its about clarity Its not whats said in the statement - its whats not said thats important She also said we have a 2 year/3 year budget - i assume that a lot of the money you mention is being spread accross years as opposed to burning it in one season. I am not a fan of hers in any way shape or form but like Caldwell i will give her a clean slate for this season. Let's see how it goes. Last season was a mess but we start again and if we fail to make play offs then both must go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted May 28, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2019 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said: This isnt true - the Chairman has alluded to zero funding from the Weirs but in essence doesnt actually say that - now if we were getting zero funding why not just say Colin Weir does not fund us beyond the Academy in any shape or form - however instead we get a very carefully worded statement -- leaving it wide open to interpitation - so if we are not being funded - why bother with the statement So why is it important - ok read closely - we reciecved circa £850K when relegated - we then have our Annual income on top of that - we are told we didnt touch the Cash reserves - looks good - but what about the £850K additional funding ? We were promoted on Championship turnover - instead we avioded relegation using an additional £850K - now if thats used up - thats a massive level of cash burn in the Championship - so knowning a) where our funding comes from and b) how fast we spend cash is important - I accept Fans arent interested - but take a look at Falkirk etc etc they are in the shit due to cashflow - what happens off the park affects what happens on it - so its not about detial - its about clarity Its not whats said in the statement - its whats not said thats important Because your very pedantic ? Because people like you have raised the issue ad nauseam ? as we both know we didn’t cut our operations to championship income levels and invested in sports science, a large squad etc and had a large reduction in income.....that will have required a large part of the £850K...... the rest was spent in Tenerife.... it was a communication statement not a forensic accounting audit ! Edited May 28, 2019 by javeajag 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted May 28, 2019 Report Share Posted May 28, 2019 What I find frustrating about all of this is that I don't really understand what the basis of the criticism is. If it is on the basis of what we can see then I'm ready with a clean slate. The football last season wasn't great, but we battled through, the communications weren't great, but they seem to be trying. Popular players have left, sometimes not in great circumstances, but that happens. There have been mistakes. But I can forgive. On the other hand there appears to be a group of people "in the know" who feel that the current regime from board through management have hidden agendas, and do not have the interests of the club at heart, are happy to let it fall. The thing is, I don't have information to know if there is anything in this. It all just seems to be whispers and nudges, and sounds a bit like conspiracy theory. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted May 29, 2019 Report Share Posted May 29, 2019 2 hours ago, javeajag said: Because your very pedantic ? Because people like you have raised the issue ad nauseam ? as we both know we didn’t cut our operations to championship income levels and invested in sports science, a large squad etc and had a large reduction in income.....that will have required a large part of the £850K...... the rest was spent in Tenerife.... it was a communication statement not a forensic accounting audit ! "She said the only support Colin weir gives the club is the academy" because this isnt what she said- go read the full statement - its not being pedantic its actually reading the statement _ Im not the person using clever wording ? if its simple straightforward then why not state that ? OK agreed - we blew circa £850K but again why not state the full amount we got when we were relegated ? No its not an Audit but its in effect a State of the Nation address from our Chairman laying out last Season or her version of it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted May 29, 2019 Report Share Posted May 29, 2019 8 hours ago, Woodstock Jag said: I find the idea that the fans don’t need to know how the Club is funded and whether its board is telling the truth about its predicament simply an astonishing attitude. Have people learned *nothing* from Gretna, Dundee, Livingston, Save the Jags and our own little local difficulties with the Taxman only a decade ago? Edit: or Hearts, Airdrie, Clyde, OldCo and countless others? People in positions of authority should not be trusted to tell the truth, no matter how much they insist that they are doing what is in (what they perceive to be) the best interests of the club. Vive la revolution! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted May 29, 2019 Report Share Posted May 29, 2019 (edited) 7 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said: This isnt true - the Chairman has alluded to zero funding from the Weirs but in essence doesnt actually say that - now if we were getting zero funding why not just say Colin Weir does not fund us beyond the Academy in any shape or form - however instead we get a very carefully worded statement -- leaving it wide open to interpitation - so if we are not being funded - why bother with the statement So why is it important - ok read closely - we reciecved circa £850K when relegated - we then have our Annual income on top of that - we are told we didnt touch the Cash reserves - looks good - but what about the £850K additional funding ? We were promoted on Championship turnover - instead we avioded relegation using an additional £850K - now if thats used up - thats a massive level of cash burn in the Championship - so knowning a) where our funding comes from and b) how fast we spend cash is important - I accept Fans arent interested - but take a look at Falkirk etc etc they are in the shit due to cashflow - what happens off the park affects what happens on it - so its not about detial - its about clarity Its not whats said in the statement - its whats not said thats important There’s known knowns,known unknowns and unknown unknowns to quote some American politician a few years ago. What makes you say that Falkirk are where they are because of cash flow ? Edited May 29, 2019 by Lenziejag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted May 29, 2019 Report Share Posted May 29, 2019 5 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said: "She said the only support Colin weir gives the club is the academy" because this isnt what she said- go read the full statement - its not being pedantic its actually reading the statement _ Im not the person using clever wording ? if its simple straightforward then why not state that ? OK agreed - we blew circa £850K but again why not state the full amount we got when we were relegated ? No its not an Audit but its in effect a State of the Nation address from our Chairman laying out last Season or her version of it No, what she said was " The Board agreed that there was also a need to develop new income streams to create new funds. It is unreasonable to expect that fans and sponsors provide all the funds to support the Club’s aspirations (nor do we have a sugar daddy or major donor as is rumoured by some fans – Colin Weir has never had any ongoing financial commitment to the Club, instead choosing to fund the Thistle Weir Youth Academy on an annual basis). " So what is it you want? A list of all the things Colin Weir has NOT spent money on? Details of the business accounts of Three Black Cats? What we can afford to pay for players we are going to approach? When you buy the club outright and pour millions in to it, then you will have the right to demand all these micro details. Until then I guess you are a fan like the rest of us on here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted May 29, 2019 Report Share Posted May 29, 2019 7 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said: Read it carefully - its not a negative - the Chairman made the statement - she is a Comms Expert Of course it is - you have jumped on something that you think is being hidden. If you are so untrusting of PTFC management, why don’t you put some of the effort you use here to find out from Colin Weir himself ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garscube Road End Posted May 29, 2019 Report Share Posted May 29, 2019 It is rather alarming that some posters on here are willing to accept the chairman's words verbatim. Of course there are fand concerns over finances and they are well within their right to want to ask where monies are coming from. If we are getting cash pumped in surriptiously then it is a concern as a club like Partick Thistle cannot sustain that and the house of cards will soon fall down. We have been there before. Wokld we survive another financial crises? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted May 29, 2019 Report Share Posted May 29, 2019 But what some people are asking, over and over again is "where is the money we are not spending, coming from?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted May 29, 2019 Report Share Posted May 29, 2019 2 minutes ago, Garscube Road End said: It is rather alarming that some posters on here are willing to accept the chairman's words verbatim. Of course there are fand concerns over finances and they are well within their right to want to ask where monies are coming from. If we are getting cash pumped in surriptiously then it is a concern as a club like Partick Thistle cannot sustain that and the house of cards will soon fall down. We have been there before. Wokld we survive another financial crises? I am not sure that fans have the right to ask anything. We are just customers. We have a choice to keep buying or not. If you are a shareholder, I guess you get the right at the AGM to ask the difficult questions and if you are not satisfied with that, you have to get the rest of the shareholders to put pressure on the board. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garscube Road End Posted May 29, 2019 Report Share Posted May 29, 2019 11 minutes ago, Lenziejag said: I am not sure that fans have the right to ask anything. We are just customers. We have a choice to keep buying or not. If you are a shareholder, I guess you get the right at the AGM to ask the difficult questions and if you are not satisfied with that, you have to get the rest of the shareholders to put pressure on the board. If fans can't ask anything, then what is the point of the likes of a managers night etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted May 29, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2019 43 minutes ago, Garscube Road End said: It is rather alarming that some posters on here are willing to accept the chairman's words verbatim. Of course there are fand concerns over finances and they are well within their right to want to ask where monies are coming from. If we are getting cash pumped in surriptiously then it is a concern as a club like Partick Thistle cannot sustain that and the house of cards will soon fall down. We have been there before. Wokld we survive another financial crises? The last two years accounts are available on this forum there is no evidence of any kind of financial issues , concerns or funds from dubious origins ....go look you won’t accept the chairman’s words , you won’t accept the audited accounts .....what will you accept ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted May 29, 2019 Report Share Posted May 29, 2019 53 minutes ago, Lenziejag said: I am not sure that fans have the right to ask anything. We are just customers. We have a choice to keep buying or not. If you are a shareholder, I guess you get the right at the AGM to ask the difficult questions and if you are not satisfied with that, you have to get the rest of the shareholders to put pressure on the board. Sorry, can't go along with the "fans are customers" argument. Football is very different from supermarket shopping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garscube Road End Posted May 29, 2019 Report Share Posted May 29, 2019 12 minutes ago, javeajag said: The last two years accounts are available on this forum there is no evidence of any kind of financial issues , concerns or funds from dubious origins ....go look you won’t accept the chairman’s words , you won’t accept the audited accounts .....what will you accept ? The chairman's words are suspect. Says she gave up because of criticism and abuse. Then later she says if supporters want to vent their anger then do it to the board and her? What is it? Give her criticism so she can go and hide? There has been mentioned on here that her comment about finance doesn't include a 300k payment from EU? Why not? And it stinks that this comment came out in the day season tickets came on sal. She has a lot of ground to make up to convince people that she is up to the task of running this club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted May 29, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2019 24 minutes ago, Garscube Road End said: The chairman's words are suspect. Says she gave up because of criticism and abuse. Then later she says if supporters want to vent their anger then do it to the board and her? What is it? Give her criticism so she can go and hide? There has been mentioned on here that her comment about finance doesn't include a 300k payment from EU? Why not? And it stinks that this comment came out in the day season tickets came on sal. She has a lot of ground to make up to convince people that she is up to the task of running this club. The 300k will be accounted in this years accounts which you will see so I know you you have no idea what your talking about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a f kincaid Posted May 29, 2019 Report Share Posted May 29, 2019 Jeez oh! The more I read this thread the more I wonder why anyone would want to be the Chairman of a Scottish football club. Status, kudos, perks? We're not Barcelona. OK. PTFC is not a supermarket. We are not "customers" in that respect. Emotional investment means it's highly unlikely any of us would willingly "shop" elsewhere. Equally however we have no automatic right to know every last detail of how the club is run except, perhaps, as shareholders at the AGM. Roll on the new season so we can get back to the real business, on the park. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garscube Road End Posted May 29, 2019 Report Share Posted May 29, 2019 39 minutes ago, javeajag said: The 300k will be accounted in this years accounts which you will see so I know you you have no idea what your talking about Your usual argument here. You dont give any answers to people's posts. You just spout the company line. So craven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted May 29, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2019 Just now, Garscube Road End said: Your usual argument here. You dont give any answers to people's posts. You just spout the company line. So craven. Are you having a laugh ?! You just avoid things you don’t like if you read jj s post he stated where the cash came from his point was where it went and she didn’t explain where the income on pies went either your just a professional moaner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted May 29, 2019 Report Share Posted May 29, 2019 1 hour ago, Garscube Road End said: The chairman's words are suspect. Says she gave up because of criticism and abuse. Then later she says if supporters want to vent their anger then do it to the board and her? What is it? Give her criticism so she can go and hide? I don't think there's a contradiction there. Criticism and abuse are very different things. And what "stinks" about releasing communication on the same day that season tickets are on sale? If they are doing everything they can to sell season tickets, what is bad about that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted May 29, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2019 3 minutes ago, allyo said: I don't think there's a contradiction there. Criticism and abuse are very different things. And what "stinks" about releasing communication on the same day that season tickets are on sale? If they are doing everything they can to sell season tickets, what is bad about that? Yes you would almost think he doesn’t want us to do well .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted May 29, 2019 Report Share Posted May 29, 2019 2 hours ago, scotty said: No, what she said was " The Board agreed that there was also a need to develop new income streams to create new funds. It is unreasonable to expect that fans and sponsors provide all the funds to support the Club’s aspirations (nor do we have a sugar daddy or major donor as is rumoured by some fans – Colin Weir has never had any ongoing financial commitment to the Club, instead choosing to fund the Thistle Weir Youth Academy on an annual basis). " So what is it you want? A list of all the things Colin Weir has NOT spent money on? Details of the business accounts of Three Black Cats? What we can afford to pay for players we are going to approach? When you buy the club outright and pour millions in to it, then you will have the right to demand all these micro details. Until then I guess you are a fan like the rest of us on here. Very simple - a statement without ambiquity that either Colin weir does or does not provide Financial Support to the Club - and as a Shareholder then its a reasonable question to ask and one I suggest most Fans would want to know - if we are recieving financial support then it means we are not self sufficient and thats important Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted May 29, 2019 Report Share Posted May 29, 2019 50 minutes ago, javeajag said: The 300k will be accounted in this years accounts which you will see so I know you you have no idea what your talking about Yes thats true - BUT the Chairman makes a point of not mentioning it - which isnt exactly giving a true picture of monies recieved when we were relegated - why mention one sum and not the other ? Again if your going to go to the bother to make a State of the Nation Address - it shouldnt be selective or ambigous ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted May 29, 2019 Report Share Posted May 29, 2019 12 minutes ago, javeajag said: Are you having a laugh ?! You just avoid things you don’t like if you read jj s post he stated where the cash came from his point was where it went and she didn’t explain where the income on pies went either your just a professional moaner No my point is that by not mentioning it there is a skewed version of events ? We know where it went !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted May 29, 2019 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2019 Just now, Jordanhill Jag said: Yes thats true - BUT the Chairman makes a point of not mentioning it - which isnt exactly giving a true picture of monies recieved when we were relegated - why mention one sum and not the other ? Again if your going to go to the bother to make a State of the Nation Address - it shouldnt be selective or ambigous ? Maybe she wasn’t trying to give the detailed financial analysis you want if your looking for conspiracies you will find them either way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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