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By Jag
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douglas clark
Message added by douglas clark

'Tis not the job of a moderator to stop people writing here. The rules are pretty simple:

reported ad hominem attacks will be investigated (and if found to be true) or write stuff that could get the site into trouble

and you'll either be warned / your post deleted, or - worst case scenario -  banned either temporarily or permanently.

This particular thread has had a vigorous exchange of views, and perhaps more heat than light. But the quality of the debate - it seems to me at least - is down to the lack of information.  That, in and of itself, means that whatever side you happen to be on is for a fan, very frustrating.

So, I have no intention of closing threads just because the quality of the postings isn't great. That is not the role of a moderator.

If you wake up the following morning you can always delete something you wish you'd never said.

 

 

 

 

 

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Jordanhill Jag Jags fan

Jordanhill Jag

Posted
Posted
23 minutes ago, allyo said:

So in this business model, is success measured as promotion for Thistle or a high dividend for shareholdrs? As I say, not mutually exclusive, but also not 100% aligned. So where is the priority?

Thats a fair point and one I cant answer - but to get a return-  means they have to have success on the park I would suggest ? 

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Jordanhill Jag Jags fan

Jordanhill Jag

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, AndyMac said:

Spot on.

They will pick up Firhill for a song. It will be like taking candy off a baby.

Andy - Firhill would be a complete Nightmare to develop - cost of demolition - sits below the Canal thats even before you get change of use Planning and thats not going to happen in a Month of Sundays - honestly dont see it - simply from a practical perspective    

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jlsarmy Jags fan

jlsarmy

Posted
Posted
38 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Agreed - but things changed in Europe when you Companies could own a Players Contract and they got the Transfer Money - so you need a Club to get that now - buy up smaller Clubs - bring through Players - move them about within your Teams - sell them on - its not a bad Business Model 

As you know if we run things tightly at Firhill - we can break even without a lot of additional cash 

So it makes sense to me as to the Model they are looking at 

Man City own Girona ?  they were going bust - bought them for buttons - now they have a La Liga Team ?    

 

Think that loses your identity JJ,  trading players every couple of years , getting more players in and  so the cycle goes on .

 

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KemoAvdiu Jags fan

KemoAvdiu

Posted
Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, jlsarmy said:

Think that loses your identity JJ,  trading players every couple of years , getting more players in and  so the cycle goes on .

 

How is that hugely different from any team in our league? We have a huge turnover of players every few years anyway. Doolan and Bannigan have been the two exceptions in recent years. If that’s the model then I’m fine with it. That’s not to say I don’t want to know more about their intentions, but the particular model has worked well for a number of clubs (e.g. Watford). 

Edited by KemoAvdiu
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KemoAvdiu Jags fan

KemoAvdiu

Posted
Posted
48 minutes ago, AndyMac said:

Spot on.

They will pick up Firhill for a song. It will be like taking candy off a baby.

You think billionaire Chinese investors are seeking to buy a football club so they can develop a relatively small parcel of land in north Glasgow? 

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javeajag Jags fan

javeajag

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, jlsarmy said:

At least debate it mate , it’s like cliche central with you , have you got any reservations at all about what’s going on ?

All your doing is speculating whilst ignoring any facts .... I keep telling you the land  isn’t worth much and you ignore that and now suggest student flats .... weeks after planners vowed to cut back on .... yes student flats

abd before you start building you have to demolish a stadium, fix the drainage problems and prepare the site for what ? To make very little money 

 

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javeajag Jags fan

javeajag

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, AndyMac said:

Many years ago, Ray Kroc, the owner of the McDonald's fast food chain was talking to some college business school students.

Ray Kroc asked the students "what business do you think I am in?" The students somewhat surprised replied "you're in the hamburger business Ray". To this Ray replied "No, I am in the real estate business".

Ray Kroc bought prime real estate in cities throughout the world. He then built a McDonald's restaurants on them and leased them out to franchisees. Ray Kroc always considered himself to be in the real estate business. The fast food business was just the icing on the cake.

Now ask yourself in what business did Chien Lee earn his billions?

Surprise surprise........... it's real estate.

You mean he’s going to turn furhill into a Chinese take away ? 

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javeajag Jags fan

javeajag

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Andy - Firhill would be a complete Nightmare to develop - cost of demolition - sits below the Canal thats even before you get change of use Planning and thats not going to happen in a Month of Sundays - honestly dont see it - simply from a practical perspective    

People aren’t listening 

nor explaining why  Chinese billionaire wants to re develop maryhill of all places 

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allyo Jags fan

allyo

Posted
Posted
36 minutes ago, KemoAvdiu said:

You think billionaire Chinese investors are seeking to buy a football club so they can develop a relatively small parcel of land in north Glasgow? 

You think they are interested in the Scottish Championship?

I mean, maybe, but it sounds equally ridiculous.

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KemoAvdiu Jags fan

KemoAvdiu

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, allyo said:

You think they are interested in the Scottish Championship?

I mean, maybe, but it sounds equally ridiculous.

No. From what I’m gathering (although will be keen to hear them confirm it) they’re interested in adding a football club to their portfolio of clubs. Presumably with the intention of taking us up to the Premiership, establishing us there, getting some success whilst also using us as a launch pad for young players either from Scotland or from their other clubs. I don’t view this as unachievable, unbelievable or - actually - at all alarming. 

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delurker Jags fan

delurker

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Agreed - but things changed in Europe when you Companies could own a Players Contract and they got the Transfer Money - so you need a Club to get that now - buy up smaller Clubs - bring through Players - move them about within your Teams - sell them on - its not a bad Business Model 

As you know if we run things tightly at Firhill - we can break even without a lot of additional cash 

So it makes sense to me as to the Model they are looking at 

Man City own Girona ?  they were going bust - bought them for buttons - now they have a La Liga Team ?    

 

Exactly the reverse is true.

Girona got promoted; City Football Group then bought them; 2 seasons later they are relegated.

Much like the 'Chien Lee got Nice into Europe' story; they had achieved European football immediately before he bought them.

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javeajag Jags fan

javeajag

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, KemoAvdiu said:

No. From what I’m gathering (although will be keen to hear them confirm it) they’re interested in adding a football club to their portfolio of clubs. Presumably with the intention of taking us up to the Premiership, establishing us there, getting some success whilst also using us as a launch pad for young players either from Scotland or from their other clubs. I don’t view this as unachievable, unbelievable or - actually - at all alarming. 

Correct 

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Jordanhill Jag Jags fan

Jordanhill Jag

Posted
Posted
34 minutes ago, delurker said:

Exactly the reverse is true.

Girona got promoted; City Football Group then bought them; 2 seasons later they are relegated.

Much like the 'Chien Lee got Nice into Europe' story; they had achieved European football immediately before he bought them.

Ok fair enough 

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Lenziejag Jags fan

Lenziejag

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, allyo said:

If this is the strategy (and it sounds as convincing as anything else I've heard) then it means that the success of Thistle as a football team is not the ultimate goal. We are effectively being run as profit making enterprise to increase players' values, potentially to supply other clubs (higher up the portfolio chain), potentially to make money for shareholders, but not with the primary purpose of improving Thistle's league position, win rate or success as a football club.

These things are not mutually exclusive (i.e. players values are more likely to increase if we win), but that's not the point. If Thistle are not run for the benefit of Thistle, what's the point in supporting them?

Are any club these days run for a purpose that doesn’t involve making money ?

And what about Thistle just now. We know that we are unlikely to be able to hang on to our good young players. In the past 5 years players like SOD;ATS; Lindsay and Hendry have all left. Bannigan would have gone if he hadn’t been injured. How long will be able to hold on to Fitzpatrick?

I am not really seeing much of a distinction between our current objective and the potential new objective.

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Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, allyo said:

If this is the strategy (and it sounds as convincing as anything else I've heard) then it means that the success of Thistle as a football team is not the ultimate goal. We are effectively being run as profit making enterprise to increase players' values, potentially to supply other clubs (higher up the portfolio chain), potentially to make money for shareholders, but not with the primary purpose of improving Thistle's league position, win rate or success as a football club.

These things are not mutually exclusive (i.e. players values are more likely to increase if we win), but that's not the point. If Thistle are not run for the benefit of Thistle, what's the point in supporting them?

 

2 hours ago, Third Lanark said:

Out of likes but well said 

Not sure I entirely agree with this. I just can't see how there will be dividends for us as a club. The only purpose I can see is to blood players for their other clubs. Any success would be accidental. 

So the question for me is, will this new business model we are discussing bring better football and more tangible success than the status quo? I tend to agree with those on here who are struggling to see what the present board are trying to achieve. I'm swaying to wanting this proposed change.

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delurker Jags fan

delurker

Posted
Posted
Just now, Lenziejag said:

Are any club these days run for a purpose that doesn’t involve making money ?

And what about Thistle just now. We know that we are unlikely to be able to hang on to our good young players. In the past 5 years players like SOD;ATS; Lindsay and Hendry have all left. Bannigan would have gone if he hadn’t been injured. How long will be able to hold on to Fitzpatrick?

I am not really seeing much of a distinction between our current objective and the potential new objective.

The hugely important difference is that any profits now would go into furthering the success of the club rather than be siphoned out for the owners' profit.

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Lenziejag Jags fan

Lenziejag

Posted
Posted
16 minutes ago, delurker said:

The hugely important difference is that any profits now would go into furthering the success of the club rather than be siphoned out for the owners' profit.

Ok - I suppose that is a reasonable response, except that transferring/selling those players hasn’t resulted in our success.

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Lenziejag Jags fan

Lenziejag

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said:

One other point is that while the new owners may have the best of intentions, at some point they will be wanting to sell and then we will have no say as to what charlatans take over then 

Who are we - we the supporters ? Do we have any say in this ?

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Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Third Lanark said:

Did Accies not have a board that were genuinely Accies minded.  I doubt Chien Lee or whoever would bat an eyelid if Partick Thistle went bust and would be left by the supporters to mourn

Perhaps we should be registering the name The Partick Thistle or FC Partick Thistle .......just in case

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