New Owner

[jaf]

1 minute ago, jlsarmy said:

Big gamble JJ year on year 

Barnsley have a relegation and a promotion on their watch (one promotion more than our board)  but stable finances and vastly reduced debt - the reason they have reduced their debt is the new owners issued new shares to pay off debt. Debt is a short to medium term finance instrument; equity/shares are a long term investment instrument - suggesting their words of being in it for long term might be more than just words.

In fact post-investment the Barnsley accounts are in much better shape than for example Glasgow Rocks by comparison!!

[jagfox]

57 minutes ago, jlsarmy said:

Think because everything is so sketchy, fans as I am are thinking how can this work , getting players on loan from Barnsley and they do well at PTFC only adds value to the parent club , not PTFC . As regards transfers in our division, at this moment it just doesn’t happen , so I’ve no idea how they get a return on their investment.

There would be development fees for young players we bring through as well as ny transfer fees?

[Third Lanark]

50 minutes ago, jaf said:

 

When they bought Nice, they bought 80%

The previous owner retained 20%

The loan that everyone is so keen on banging on about was to buy out the remaining 20% of the previous owner

In UK, or French debt terms, 9% is high. However it is cheap versus the cost of equity, and some international debt markets, and so financially one could argue it makes sense, plus it has got Nice into the position that they could be sold to the UKs richest man, in which case one would imagine the debt would immediately be repaid, and ultimately the Nice fans perhaps may be happy with the outcome, who knows.

 

 

 

 

 

They may not be happy though. I would hope our club does not get landed with 9 per cent of a loan

[Guest]

1 hour ago, javeajag said:

Listen mate if we re locate to Dublin I’ll hive you £500 

Listen chief, I never said we would relocate to Dublin, merely making the point that until somebody makes a statement and we know something tangible all we will continue to do is speculate. 

Seems like a no risk win win for me. I'll take your 500 quid if we do and give you feck all when we don't. You lose money to bookies often?

[javeajag]

Just now, Thistleberight said:

Listen chief, I never said we would relocate to Dublin, merely making the point that until somebody makes a statement and we know something tangible all we will continue to do is speculate. 

Seems like a no risk win win for me. I'll take your 500 quid if we do and give you feck all when we don't. You lose money to bookies often?

I am a bookie.....

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, javeajag said:

I am a bookie.....

I yield

[JeanieD]

No.............I am a bookie

 

 

On a more serious note this whole ownership question, bores me to death. A combination of Ken Bates, John Hall with his Clydebank to Dubln nonsense and the creation of Sevco being played out in a vacuum of actual information from any reliable source. Was looking forward to the new season..................not any more.

[AndyMac]

If we leave the EU with no deal. Will British football revert to pre Bosman days? Will it be an end to free agents and will more transfer money return to the smaller clubs?

[Jagsman]

i dont understand all the negativity around this as it could be the most exiting era as a thistle fan and they have this extensive scouting newtwork with hardly any net spend all good for me because a turn in profit even if they do keep some of this is good business sense.

 

also why people are complaining about being feeder club the where pretty much the  whole of scotland is

 

lets see what happens they have been succesful so far nice in ecl barnsley promoted maybe us promoted and  bring the scottish cup back home to maryhill

 

 

[topcat]

4 hours ago, Dick Dastardly said:

Money laundering?

Agreed.  Nice, Barnsley, Partick.  Just nice little car washes that are big enough to move funds through but not big enough to attract much attention. Have enough car washes and you can do lots of washing.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

19 minutes ago, Jagsman said:

i dont understand all the negativity around this as it could be the most exiting era as a thistle fan and they have this extensive scouting newtwork with hardly any net spend all good for me because a turn in profit even if they do keep some of this is good business sense.

 

also why people are complaining about being feeder club the where pretty much the  whole of scotland is

 

lets see what happens they have been succesful so far nice in ecl barnsley promoted maybe us promoted and  bring the scottish cup back home to maryhill

 

 

I've sort of given up on this thread as it's full of posts from the same people repeatedly making the same point. That's not unusual and natural enough but at least on other threads the subject matter isn't so hypothetical. Anyway I'd suggest the "negativity" you mention largely emanates from posters who question just why any billionaire would be investing in us in particular.  Worth taking into account that one former football club came a mere whisker away from bringing the Scottish Cup back to the town of Gretna.

[Rid Skwerr]

So much hot air generated by so few facts.

This thread has taken uninformed speculation to new heights!   

...I'm quite enjoying it, really.

[allyo]

We are currently an independent club. We are largely responsible for raising funds through whichever means. We celebrate the development of a young player who makes a valued contribution to the team, and we appreciate it if they move on to bigger things and we can cash in. It funds the further development of players, or the next signing, or a new pitch, whatever. Our fans buy season tickets, even though they aren't great value, becuase they want to contribute. Some of them buy these but can't even go to games. We run and enter competitions and lotteries to help contribute to the club, because we know it needs it, and because we believe that in a small way it will make a difference. And when we're are successful we all feel part of it, because we know that without the fans it couldn't happen. Boards can come and go, and sometimes we might think they are rubbish, but the fans are consistent, and even if we own nothing on a balance sheet, we still know that it's our club. We know that Partick Thistle exists primarily for the people who turn up on a Saturday.

The good scenario here, that people are getting excited about (assuming that it's not a property deal), is that we are going to become minor part of a stable of clubs which are managed by a financial consortium, to make financial returns. This will be done through sporting means, by developing players and facilities to increase the financial value of the club, or make short term profit on player sales (though from Scottish football that seems a lot of work for a very small potential return). If they are successful then we may develop good players, we may get promoted, but that will not be the primary aim. The primary aim will be to make money. Why do I think this? Becuase I find it hard to believe that a consortium of very rich business people from America or China will be excited by Partick Thistle's achievements in Scottish football. Hunch.

So, assuming the good scenario, it's subjective. I can understand why people might quite like it, because it could work out okay. And there's a bit of frustration in the current set-up. But it makes us something very different. Would you put your hand in your pocket to  financially benefit an organisation that is owned by billionaires? Or would you only pay when it's worth it, when you are getting your financial value?

I totally get that there is a debate here, for good reason. But when I think about the best case scenario, to be honest, I still don't really fancy it.

 

 

[AndyMac]

5 minutes ago, allyo said:

We are currently an independent club. We are largely responsible for raising funds through whichever means. We celebrate the development of a young player who makes a valued contribution to the team, and we appreciate it if they move on to bigger things and we can cash in. It funds the further development of players, or the next signing, or a new pitch, whatever. Our fans buy season tickets, even though they aren't great value, becuase they want to contribute. Some of them buy these but can't even go to games. We run and enter competitions and lotteries to help contribute to the club, because we know it needs it, and because we believe that in a small way it will make a difference. And when we're are successful we all feel part of it, because we know that without the fans it couldn't happen. Boards can come and go, and sometimes we might think they are rubbish, but the fans are consistent, and even if we own nothing on a balance sheet, we still know that it's our club. We know that Partick Thistle exists primarily for the people who turn up on a Saturday.

The good scenario here, that people are getting excited about (assuming that it's not a property deal), is that we are going to become minor part of a stable of clubs which are managed by a financial consortium, to make financial returns. This will be done through sporting means, by developing players and facilities to increase the financial value of the club, or make short term profit on player sales (though from Scottish football that seems a lot of work for a very small potential return). If they are successful then we may develop good players, we may get promoted, but that will not be the primary aim. The primary aim will be to make money. Why do I think this? Becuase I find it hard to believe that a consortium of very rich business people from America or China will be excited by Partick Thistle's achievements in Scottish football. Hunch.

So, assuming the good scenario, it's subjective. I can understand why people might quite like it, because it could work out okay. And there's a bit of frustration in the current set-up. But it makes us something very different. Would you put your hand in your pocket to  financially benefit an organisation that is owned by billionaires? Or would you only pay when it's worth it, when you are getting your financial value?

I totally get that there is a debate here, for good reason. But when I think about the best case scenario, to be honest, I still don't really fancy it.

 

 

Excellent post.

[Auld Jag]

19 minutes ago, allyo said:

We are currently an independent club. We are largely responsible for raising funds through whichever means. We celebrate the development of a young player who makes a valued contribution to the team, and we appreciate it if they move on to bigger things and we can cash in. It funds the further development of players, or the next signing, or a new pitch, whatever. Our fans buy season tickets, even though they aren't great value, becuase they want to contribute. Some of them buy these but can't even go to games. We run and enter competitions and lotteries to help contribute to the club, because we know it needs it, and because we believe that in a small way it will make a difference. And when we're are successful we all feel part of it, because we know that without the fans it couldn't happen. Boards can come and go, and sometimes we might think they are rubbish, but the fans are consistent, and even if we own nothing on a balance sheet, we still know that it's our club. We know that Partick Thistle exists primarily for the people who turn up on a Saturday.

The good scenario here, that people are getting excited about (assuming that it's not a property deal), is that we are going to become minor part of a stable of clubs which are managed by a financial consortium, to make financial returns. This will be done through sporting means, by developing players and facilities to increase the financial value of the club, or make short term profit on player sales (though from Scottish football that seems a lot of work for a very small potential return). If they are successful then we may develop good players, we may get promoted, but that will not be the primary aim. The primary aim will be to make money. Why do I think this? Becuase I find it hard to believe that a consortium of very rich business people from America or China will be excited by Partick Thistle's achievements in Scottish football. Hunch.

So, assuming the good scenario, it's subjective. I can understand why people might quite like it, because it could work out okay. And there's a bit of frustration in the current set-up. But it makes us something very different. Would you put your hand in your pocket to  financially benefit an organisation that is owned by billionaires? Or would you only pay when it's worth it, when you are getting your financial value?

I totally get that there is a debate here, for good reason. But when I think about the best case scenario, to be honest, I still don't really fancy it.

 

 

I would think best case scenario is we are in the Premier league and hopefully go far in cup competitions on a regular basis. I would fancy that. But as I have said before,nobody knows what is happening. Because those in the know are not saying anything yet. When they do decide to say something, maybe we will know more then.

[allyo]

7 minutes ago, Auld Jag said:

I would think best case scenario is we are in the Premier league and hopefully go far in cup competitions on a regular basis. I would fancy that. But as I have said before,nobody knows what is happening. Because those in the know are not saying anything yet. When they do decide to say something, maybe we will know more then.

There's only so much they can say. We either get bought by a seriously wealthy consortium of foreign businessmen or we don't. Beyond that we'll get the best presentation of high values, ambition, passion and integrity that money can buy.

[ChiThistle]

I’ll contribute the following bit of deep investigative analysis....

”Chien Lee” is an anagram of “Nice Heel”, which in pro wrasslin’ parlance makes him the villain of Nice.  Not PTFC.  So I think we are in the clear here.

Now let’s all settle back and see what Mr. Lee, Mr. Beane, and third consortium member and international man of mystery Rex de Thistle have in store to take our club to the top!  

 

 

 

[The Prince of Kadriorg]

11 hours ago, Dick Dastardly said:

Money laundering?

Are the size of transactions within Scottish football really large enough that this could be done on a significant level at Thistle? Seems unlikely to me.  If they intended to go down the periodic Italian road (for example no specific imputation of Italy as more or less corrupt than anywhere else) of inflated transfer fees for the accounts that don't reflect the actually player's genuine worth. you'd probably want a feeder club where bigger fees were more usual.  

Edited June 25, 2019 by The Prince of Kadriorg

[stuart_adam]

This threads hilarious. Far too much negativity over something which hasn't even happened yet. Even if it does go through, give them a chance.

The last 24 months as a Jags fan have been some of the worst both on and off the pitch in over a decade. It would be nice to move on from that.

If it goes through it goes through, If it doesn't then we move on.

Enough with the knicker wetting until there is actually something worth getting worked up over! 

[Garscube Road End]

2 minutes ago, stuart_adam said:

This threads hilarious. Far too much negativity over something which hasn't even happened yet. Even if it does go through, give them a chance.

The last 24 months as a Jags fan have been some of the worst both on and off the pitch in over a decade. It would be nice to move on from that.

If it goes through it goes through, If it doesn't then we move on.

Enough with the knicker wetting until there is actually something worth getting worked up over! 

Maybe some folk enjoy knickerwetting.

[jaf]

10 minutes ago, stuart_adam said:

This threads hilarious. Far too much negativity over something which hasn't even happened yet. Even if it does go through, give them a chance.

The last 24 months as a Jags fan have been some of the worst both on and off the pitch in over a decade. It would be nice to move on from that.

If it goes through it goes through, If it doesn't then we move on.

Enough with the knicker wetting until there is actually something worth getting worked up over! 

Absolutely.

During the course of the thread the potential investors have been accused of all sorts, including illegalities, people not even saying 'in my opinion', but stating utter speculation as if it is fact. Even after flaws in their arguments emerge from other posters, on they go.

This thread does us no credit.

[javeajag]

36 minutes ago, jaf said:

Absolutely.

During the course of the thread the potential investors have been accused of all sorts, including illegalities, people not even saying 'in my opinion', but stating utter speculation as if it is fact. Even after flaws in their arguments emerge from other posters, on they go.

This thread does us no credit.

Agree.....let’s all calm down and wait and see what happens and if firhill becomes a housing development financed by leveraged debt put on to the clubs balance sheet so that we go into liquidation and move to Dublin .....we can all get excited 

[Third Lanark]

10 hours ago, Jagsman said:

i dont understand all the negativity around this as it could be the most exiting era as a thistle fan and they have this extensive scouting newtwork with hardly any net spend all good for me because a turn in profit even if they do keep some of this is good business sense.

 

also why people are complaining about being feeder club the where pretty much the  whole of scotland is

 

lets see what happens they have been succesful so far nice in ecl barnsley promoted maybe us promoted and  bring the scottish cup back home to maryhill

 

 

Keep some of it? I was under the impression they would keep all of it - if they own the club then ultimately they are the ones who decide where the money goes

[a f kincaid]

A lesson from history (or to be more precise an extract from the PTFC programme dated 11 April 1987.

 

"To all Thistle fans - from Mr Bates"

"There has been much speculation over my involvement with Partick Thistle, and so to put the record straight I welcome this opportunity of speaking directly to all Jags supporters today."

"Property developer I am not and challenge anybody to show otherwise.  There are development opportunities at Firhill...but Partick Thistle want to be part of any redevelopment...and any profit must be retained by the club..."

"Partick Thistle have withered over the years, and apart from a very fine ground, we are at a very low ebb. Nine months later I am more aware of the problems that face us and I have a better idea how they should be tackled."

"We need a dynamic Board of Directors and this is already under review.  A strong management team, good scouting, youth policies, and enthusiastic support - not just on match days  but seven days a week to help praise the £1/4  million a year that is needed to run a successful club.  Finally you need patience."

"Enjoy the game today [we lost 2-0 to Dunfermline] and ask yourself what you are prepared to do - no, not the fellow sitting next to you - you!  Together we can make the Jags great."

Ken Bates.

 

[jaggot]

talk about set in your ways  -   when were the jags last in europe? the inter toto cup.....?  yes I remember the Metz game

are we seriously as fans wanting to accept another first half of last season as the norm....?

 

I don't - I want to see a successful club by any means possible