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Message added by douglas clark

'Tis not the job of a moderator to stop people writing here. The rules are pretty simple:

reported ad hominem attacks will be investigated (and if found to be true) or write stuff that could get the site into trouble

and you'll either be warned / your post deleted, or - worst case scenario -  banned either temporarily or permanently.

This particular thread has had a vigorous exchange of views, and perhaps more heat than light. But the quality of the debate - it seems to me at least - is down to the lack of information.  That, in and of itself, means that whatever side you happen to be on is for a fan, very frustrating.

So, I have no intention of closing threads just because the quality of the postings isn't great. That is not the role of a moderator.

If you wake up the following morning you can always delete something you wish you'd never said.

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, jaggot said:

talk about set in your ways  -   when were the jags last in europe? the inter toto cup.....?  yes I remember the Metz game

are we seriously as fans wanting to accept another first half of last season as the norm....?

 

I don't - I want to see a successful club by any means possible

Would you call Dundee, Dunfermline and Gretna reaching Scottish Cup finals, Livingston winning the League Cup successful achievements?

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1 hour ago, jaggot said:

talk about set in your ways  -   when were the jags last in europe? the inter toto cup.....?  yes I remember the Metz game

are we seriously as fans wanting to accept another first half of last season as the norm....?

 

I don't - I want to see a successful club by any means possible

 

8 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

Would you call Dundee, Dunfermline and Gretna reaching Scottish Cup finals, Livingston winning the League Cup successful achievements?

If I may join in, I want us to be successful and more than anything I would love to see Thistle either win a trophy or play an away game in Europewhile I am still here. If st midden, st johnstone, killie can do it so can we. At any price? Kinda, but not to the point we lose what little identity we have left. That said I don't believe our current set up and club management team will bring me that. I think GC is capable enough but don't see it happening at our club.

LiB, compared to our success, my answer is yes. I know they have had their problems but yes, that would be better than we have had in my lifetime.

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34 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

Would you call Dundee, Dunfermline and Gretna reaching Scottish Cup finals, Livingston winning the League Cup successful achievements?

I'd call winning the Scottish cup success, yes. 

There's a risk in any administration. Our current set-up has lead to a possible takeover. If that doesn't transpire we may struggle on lose more and more fans and even drop down the leagues.

The post earlier reminds us of the Bates Era. Right in the middle of our 80s wilderness years. 

Ultimately the fans couldn't do anything about that. 

The way the club is set up its future comes down to the actions of a few whoever in charge.

We just get the trickle down in terms of results as supporters, good or bad!

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40 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

Would you call Dundee, Dunfermline and Gretna reaching Scottish Cup finals, Livingston winning the League Cup successful achievements?

Livingston are in the Premier League. Did they get their trophy taken away from them? There doesn't seem to be any consequences to going bust. Look at that Govan mob. They're still cheating their way to stop Celtic winning 10 in a row.

Edited by MonehJags
Poor use of the word There They're or Their
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2 hours ago, jaggot said:

talk about set in your ways  -   when were the jags last in europe? the inter toto cup.....?  yes I remember the Metz game

are we seriously as fans wanting to accept another first half of last season as the norm....?

 

I don't - I want to see a successful club by any means possible

By *any* means? That's a dangerous mindset...

And who's to say the first half of last season will become the norm, given the pattern of performances didn't repeat itself in the second half?

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52 minutes ago, MonehJags said:

Livingston are in the Premier League. Did they get their trophy taken away from them? There doesn't seem to be any consequences to going bust. 

F*ck it, let's go for it then.

I mean, Livingston *only* spent 11 seasons in the lower leagues after winning the League Cup - including a season in the Third Division and two stints in the Second - went into administration twice and staved off liquidation at the last moment.

And people think we're going through a fallow period...

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Dundee reached a Scottish Cup final when they peaked at 150+% wages to turnover. Dunfermline around the same time reached finals were forking out just short of 130% wages to turnover . Months later Dundee would've gone out of business if Dens Pk was of any real value. They only escaped as HMRC reluctantly accepted some convoluted 40 year pay back plan. Dunfermline were Gavin Masterson's plaything. When the cash ran out, well we can all see what happened. Livingston, who in my mind are nothing but a dodgy franchise, like Dundee are serial **** ups. Even now I guess many of us have a fair idea how they're financed. 

I'm not for a moment saying there isn't a case for speculating to accumulate but within reason. I'd say that reason would dictate you don't pay out more on player wages than your turnover and  you don't risk almost certain ensuing administration or worse in the process. Winning a cup would be to me a most hollow achievement if months later we're watching on as good people (players, staff & management) are being made redundant.

Edited by lady-isobel-barnett
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6 hours ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

Would you call Dundee, Dunfermline and Gretna reaching Scottish Cup finals, Livingston winning the League Cup successful achievements?

Everyone is forgetting what year it is and what’s due to happen in 2021!  These guys clearly know their Jaggy history.

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Have been reading quite a bit of the thread and the one word that pops up a lot is "Negativity".  It seems to be the buzz word to bash those over the head who have a genuine concern about the direction this "new owners"story is taking.  There is no doubt at all that a reason for this possible buy out needs to be clarified to the supporters. If we were the old firm then an investigative news paper journalist may have already got to the bottom of this. We need someone to go on these radio shows and challenge the likes of Hugh Keevans to give us an answer as to why a billionaire business consortium would have any modicum of interest in buying a football club that barely breaks even.  Its like a king pin drug dealer deciding he needs to muscle in on the guy selling the macaroon bars. 

So until someone or these new prospective owners can give that reason I have to think the clubs long term future is in danger to short term capitalistic opportunism.  Sorry for the negativity!

 

 

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13 minutes ago, topcat said:

Have been reading quite a bit of the thread and the one word that pops up a lot is "Negativity".  It seems to be the buzz word to bash those over the head who have a genuine concern about the direction this "new owners"story is taking.  There is no doubt at all that a reason for this possible buy out needs to be clarified to the supporters. If we were the old firm then an investigative news paper journalist may have already got to the bottom of this. We need someone to go on these radio shows and challenge the likes of Hugh Keevans to give us an answer as to why a billionaire business consortium would have any modicum of interest in buying a football club that barely breaks even.  Its like a king pin drug dealer deciding he needs to muscle in on the guy selling the macaroon bars. 

So until someone or these new prospective owners can give that reason I have to think the clubs long term future is in danger to short term capitalistic opportunism.  Sorry for the negativity!

 

 

Aye, cos if anybody knows it will be Keevins.

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37 minutes ago, West of Scotland said:

Well, it's not actually a real story, so the amount of negativity or otherwise is really immaterial.

The future consequences for PTFC as a football club may not be immaterial and rumours have a habit of eventually becoming real stories. 

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18 hours ago, Dark Passenger said:

By *any* means? That's a dangerous mindset...

And who's to say the first half of last season will become the norm, given the pattern of performances didn't repeat itself in the second half?

So in essence your saying that you believe the current Board  & Manager will take us forward - possibly promotion - Cup Run - Europe ?

to do this takes Money - where is it coming from - simple question - who on the Board do you think has the Vision - the Contacts - the Experience - to generate the Money that drives us forward - so far all thats been delivered in the last 12 Months is we got £850K in Money from the Premier -and we avoided relegation on the last day of the Season - 

Beyond that - we now have Rainbow Flashes on our Away Top 

So I agree not by "Any" Means-  but I honestly dont see where we are going as a Club - unless there is a cunning plan that Im missing 

If we are going to be a Smallish Club stuck in the Championship - with the Directors not owning shares or investing - thats fine - the Board can walk-  and we can replace them with Thistle Fans ( not me) at least they understand the Club      

So whichever Model you want to look at - New Owner - or Championship Club with limited Budget - there has to be change 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

So in essence your saying that you believe the current Board  & Manager will take us forward - possibly promotion - Cup Run - Europe ?

to do this takes Money - where is it coming from - simple question - who on the Board do you think has the Vision - the Contacts - the Experience - to generate the Money that drives us forward - so far all thats been delivered in the last 12 Months is we got £850K in Money from the Premier -and we avoided relegation on the last day of the Season - 

Beyond that - we now have Rainbow Flashes on our Away Top 

So I agree not by "Any" Means-  but I honestly dont see where we are going as a Club - unless there is a cunning plan that Im missing 

If we are going to be a Smallish Club stuck in the Championship - with the Directors not owning shares or investing - thats fine - the Board can walk-  and we can replace them with Thistle Fans ( not me) at least they understand the Club      

So whichever Model you want to look at - New Owner - or Championship Club with limited Budget - there has to be change 

 

 

I would rather have a club than no club at all.

Under the current manager I believe we will do well.  If the new owners come in and sack Caldwell without giving him a chance then they will have alienated me already. 

If Archibald was still the manager you would not want a takeover

for all your assurances that the new owners will be fine at some point or other they will be looking to sell and move on - how do you know we won’t have an asset stripper then?

Edited by Third Lanark
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36 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

So in essence your saying that you believe the current Board  & Manager will take us forward - possibly promotion - Cup Run - Europe ?

to do this takes Money - where is it coming from - simple question - who on the Board do you think has the Vision - the Contacts - the Experience - to generate the Money that drives us forward - so far all thats been delivered in the last 12 Months is we got £850K in Money from the Premier -and we avoided relegation on the last day of the Season - 

Beyond that - we now have Rainbow Flashes on our Away Top 

So I agree not by "Any" Means-  but I honestly dont see where we are going as a Club - unless there is a cunning plan that Im missing 

If we are going to be a Smallish Club stuck in the Championship - with the Directors not owning shares or investing - thats fine - the Board can walk-  and we can replace them with Thistle Fans ( not me) at least they understand the Club      

So whichever Model you want to look at - New Owner - or Championship Club with limited Budget - there has to be change 

 

 

The questions of whether there has to be change, and whether this sort of change would be good, should be addressed separately.

On the basis of speculation this change is potentially fundamental to what Partick Thistle is, changing from a football club run primarily to achieve footballing success to a profit making business run primarily for the benefit of its shareholders. The question of how committed or effective our current board is in running a football club is fairly irrelevant. It is currently a football club, worthless without the fans (the only people who really care), as it has been for nearly 150 years.

The new regime arguably changes that forever. We don't know that for sure, but it's worthy of consideration in my view.

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3 hours ago, topcat said:

The future consequences for PTFC as a football club may not be immaterial and rumours have a habit of eventually becoming real stories. 

Some pish invented on facebook is going to magically turn into Chinese billionaires rocking up Maryhill Road?

Until there's a press conference at Firhill announcing the sale I'll remain sceptical.

 

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27 minutes ago, Dark Passenger said:

I ignored this daft little dig first time around. You really are a petty, small-minded and vindictive man.

What are you going on about - if your attempting to turn this into some sort of anti inclusiveness stance on my part - dont bother and save your PR Spin 

So I will ask you again - Im assuming you believe that the Current Board   & Manager will take us forward - possibly promotion - Cup Run - Europe ?

And beyond the Rainbow Flashes - would you care to list what of substance has been delivered in the last 12 Months ? 

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