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Jag
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'Tis not the job of a moderator to stop people writing here. The rules are pretty simple:

reported ad hominem attacks will be investigated (and if found to be true) or write stuff that could get the site into trouble

and you'll either be warned / your post deleted, or - worst case scenario -  banned either temporarily or permanently.

This particular thread has had a vigorous exchange of views, and perhaps more heat than light. But the quality of the debate - it seems to me at least - is down to the lack of information.  That, in and of itself, means that whatever side you happen to be on is for a fan, very frustrating.

So, I have no intention of closing threads just because the quality of the postings isn't great. That is not the role of a moderator.

If you wake up the following morning you can always delete something you wish you'd never said.

 

 

 

 

 

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I have no inside knowledge but I tend to believe generally that the truth lies somewhere in between all the information put into the press.

Assuming that £200k is being withheld is it not more likely that the new owners have stipulated they don't want GC using it to buy new players and would instead would like to appoint their own manager? or that GC has been told he can't recruit his targets and instead been told recruit younger players ? The Barnsley model is to sign players under 25 and a quick look a the current Barnsley squad shows the 2 oldest players to be 26 years old. GC's signing policy is a million miles away from that

Might also imply that GC was the person supplying the information to McGarry to allow GC to say he was hard done by when he gets sacked by the new owners?

I don't think the new owners business plan would make any sense if the want us to stay in the championship and play Barnsley fringe players in the hope they attract a fee particularly as Barnsley are already playing a high number of younger players in their starting 11.

More likely in my opinion that they want to build up a Scottish version of that by restructuring our playing squad. So promotion this year won't be their top priority, instead they will focus on recruiting under 25's capable of being competitive next season. Which is kind of what we should be doing as a club anyway and very similar to the make up of the squad when we last got promoted

I think its a fairly easy business decision to bin the training ground. As for the Wier's, what todays information says in they end their involvement but doesn't actually say if they will or won't continue to fund the youth setup.

Only thing that doesn't bit that worries me about the club finances and to which I can't come up with a logical explanation is why stop the players bus?

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6 minutes ago, Woodstock Jag said:

This is a total non sequitur.

Firstly, the finances being in a mess need not have anything to do with the Club’s balance sheet. It may instead be about the deficit being run and therefore the wasting of reserves.

Secondly, having banking facilities isn’t an indication of financial distress; it’s perfectly common to have them in a business where turnover is volatile (as is normal for football clubs given the nature of the sources of revenue and the relatively static costs)

I’m not saying the finances are in a mess, but if those are your grounds for thinking they aren’t, well I’d like to see the audited accounts for 2018-19 please.

Ok let’s agree the balance sheet is fine . Reserves may be in decline - though it was stated they are fine and we had money set aside for January but so far no debt .

my point on banking facilities is that we can’t get a bank overdraft or support so if there is a deficit who’s holding it ?

given Fitzpatrick and Lindsay’s fees I suspect the  finances  are ok 

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2 minutes ago, laukat said:

I have no inside knowledge but I tend to believe generally that the truth lies somewhere in between all the information put into the press.

Assuming that £200k is being withheld is it not more likely that the new owners have stipulated they don't want GC using it to buy new players and would instead would like to appoint their own manager? or that GC has been told he can't recruit his targets and instead been told recruit younger players ? The Barnsley model is to sign players under 25 and a quick look a the current Barnsley squad shows the 2 oldest players to be 26 years old. GC's signing policy is a million miles away from that

Might also imply that GC was the person supplying the information to McGarry to allow GC to say he was hard done by when he gets sacked by the new owners?

I don't think the new owners business plan would make any sense if the want us to stay in the championship and play Barnsley fringe players in the hope they attract a fee particularly as Barnsley are already playing a high number of younger players in their starting 11.

More likely in my opinion that they want to build up a Scottish version of that by restructuring our playing squad. So promotion this year won't be their top priority, instead they will focus on recruiting under 25's capable of being competitive next season. Which is kind of what we should be doing as a club anyway and very similar to the make up of the squad when we last got promoted

I think its a fairly easy business decision to bin the training ground. As for the Wier's, what todays information says in they end their involvement but doesn't actually say if they will or won't continue to fund the youth setup.

Only thing that doesn't bit that worries me about the club finances and to which I can't come up with a logical explanation is why stop the players bus?

Well you would expect the board to put fans minds at ease and rubbish the article.

by the way plenty of Caldwell’s signings are young mixed in with a couple of older heads. What works for Barnsley might not necessarily work in the Scottish Championship where a team full of younger players could be ripped apart 

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14 minutes ago, Fawlty Towers said:

This is all very strange - each answer to a point seems to raise two more questions.

Personally I have no interest in playing the blame game, I would just appreciate some honest straight talking from those currently in charge of the club I support!

Spot on Martin,this needs to be sorted as soon as possible,all this does is piss the support off and we  don't need it.

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8 minutes ago, Third Lanark said:

Well you would expect the board to put fans minds at ease and rubbish the article.

by the way plenty of Caldwell’s signings are young mixed in with a couple of older heads. What works for Barnsley might not necessarily work in the Scottish Championship where a team full of younger players could be ripped apart 

On the first point I agree.  In fairness it states at the bottom of the article that " Partick Thistle have been contacted for comment and are expected to respond soon" which is a bit strange as I would have thought they would have held the story until they had a reply form the club or the statement would have read that 'the club were contacted but declined to comment'

GC's signings are a bit all the place with a tendancy to sign experienced players  but Barnsley's are most defintely not. Barnsley have already stated that even after promotion to the championship that will continue to recruit players under 25.

Totally agree that a younger team could get ripped apart and it might not work. I'm also not saying that GC's signings are bad I'm just saying that what the new owners want to do and what the managers wants to do are quite far apart and in those scenarios the manager is the one that usually goes.

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1 hour ago, allyo said:

Logical theory, as I see it. I am very much not in the know.

Club was ticking along under the old directors. No real drama.

Prospective new owners come along.

Shareholders heads are turned by what's on offer from prospective owners, and see an opportunity for big return on investment.

Existing board are hesitant, seeing potential pitfalls and having no vested interest in encouraging the takeover.

Owners don't want to miss their big opportunity, so oust the board to clear the way.

Owners (new board) as Thistle people, convince themselves that, despite potential concerns, the takeover could be good, to avoid feeling guilty.

New Board make case that old board were failing, to get fans on side. 

New Board uses JT and in the know friends to sell the potential benefits of the takeover to the fans.

Meanwhile within the club everything is going to pot as the focus is on getting a sale through.

Someone leaks this from within.

Here we are.

My take on it too

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Okay, hear me out....

The team bus was canceled because it was actually a McGill’s bus.  It turns out the mystery second bidder was none other than the Easdales, who are trying to stay ahead of the next Rangers liquidation by having a new club at the ready.  The training ground was scuppered because they were near a deal to put the new training ground on the old Misco site in - you heard it here first - Greenock which they bought in 2018.  The benefits bring it was on the waterfront and very close to an RBS mortgage centre.  In preparation, they’d already begun building an underground tunnel between the two.  Well, less of a tunnel and more of a pneumatic tube for lending.

Meanwhile, NewCity was not keen on these guys trying to take their Barnsley Junior and turn it into The Future Rangers 3.0, so they got the directors sacked and installed their own preferred folks.

The McGills Bus just happened to be the last remnant, along with the 200k which GC wanted to use to sign ONE player, slightly out of favor Borna Barisic at, you guessed it, Rangers.  Due to language differences, he was able to convince Barisic that “K” is the abbreviation for “millions” and was ready to swoop if the Easdales could convince Gerrard to hand him his walking papers.

Now you’re probably asking yourself, “well that’s all quite obvious, but how exactly is Jackie Macnamara tied up in all of this?  And THAT is where it gets really interesting....

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46 minutes ago, laukat said:

Only thing that doesn't bit that worries me about the club finances and to which I can't come up with a logical explanation is why stop the players bus?

 

42 minutes ago, javeajag said:

given Fitzpatrick and Lindsay’s fees I suspect the  finances  are ok 

Sorry for the very selective posting.

Tho' it is alarmingly coincidental we can't be sure that the team bus thingy isn't just good housekeeping. The demographics in relation to the players could've changed and making tracks individually to a central location like Alloa made sense. If not then perhaps there's cash flow issues. We've no knowledge that Aiden's & Liam's fees have been paid up or indeed imminent. It's no secret that most transfers are in instalments, delayed, factored etc.  That aside I'm kinda in agreement with javeajag. I didn't get the impression that the Club was actively trying to punt Fitzpatrick and thought the move was more prompted by the player. If the finances were that dire he'd maybe have been away earlier.

The other thing that maybe hints at cash flow is if Colin Weir has distanced himself from the Club. I don't believe he's been financing us in some sort of ad hoc basis but at the same time he may well have been underwriting our dealings. 

Edited by lady-isobel-barnett
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8 minutes ago, ChiThistle said:

Okay, hear me out....

The team bus was canceled because it was actually a McGill’s bus.  It turns out the mystery second bidder was none other than the Easdales, who are trying to stay ahead of the next Rangers liquidation by having a new club at the ready.  The training ground was scuppered because they were near a deal to put the new training ground on the old Misco site in - you heard it here first - Greenock which they bought in 2018.  The benefits bring it was on the waterfront and very close to an RBS mortgage centre.  In preparation, they’d already begun building an underground tunnel between the two.  Well, less of a tunnel and more of a pneumatic tube for lending.

Meanwhile, NewCity was not keen on these guys trying to take their Barnsley Junior and turn it into The Future Rangers 3.0, so they got the directors sacked and installed their own preferred folks.

The McGills Bus just happened to be the last remnant, along with the 200k which GC wanted to use to sign ONE player, slightly out of favor Borna Barisic at, you guessed it, Rangers.  Due to language differences, he was able to convince Barisic that “K” is the abbreviation for “millions” and was ready to swoop if the Easdales could convince Gerrard to hand him his walking papers.

Now you’re probably asking yourself, “well that’s all quite obvious, but how exactly is Jackie Macnamara tied up in all of this?  And THAT is where it gets really interesting....

 

 

Clown 

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9 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

 

Sorry for the very selective posting.

Tho' it is alarmingly coincidental we can't be sure that the team bus thingy isn't just good housekeeping. The demographics in relation to the players could've changed and making tracks individually to a central location like Alloa made sense. If not then perhaps there's cash flow issues. We've no knowledge that Aiden's & Liam's fees have been paid up or indeed imminent. It's no secret that most transfers are in instalments, delayed, factored etc.  That aside I'm kinda in agreement with javeajag. I didn't get the impression that the Club was actively trying to punt Fitzpatrick and thought the move was more prompted by the player. If the finances were that dire he'd maybe have been away earlier.

The other thing that maybe hints at cash flow is if Colin Weir has distanced himself from the Club. I don't believe he's been financing us in some sort of ad hoc basis but at the same time he may well have been underwriting our dealings. 

Conjecture I know but Colin Weirs withdrawal of funds for the Academy could have put a spanner in the works as the Club would have to fund the Academy by itself , hence the severe cost cutting.

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I always had the impression Weir had put the money up for another 2 years funding  (perhaps in an escrow bank account); even if he hadn't it would look a bit petty if he withdrew that I'd think.  With the recent money from Lindsay and Fitzie we ought to have  been able to put something aside for the youth policy.  If the new owners really want us to develop players they had better back it too.

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My conclusion on Colin Weir's withdrawal, as others have said, is that he has no interest in funding billionaire's profits and that's what this takeover is about.

I think that would be very understandable. 

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4 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

The Jags Trust Statement confirmed the takeover is still on track and its currently with the SFA - thats pretty clear and open ? Until such times as they get the Green Light from the SFA not sure they can add much 

Regards TeamBusGate and Player Signings - the previous Board made the Commercial Manager - the Operations Manager and had a total of Seven Redundancies - so Financial Reviews seem to be ongoing - again nothing much has changed between Boards in the Cost Cutting Dept - however maybe if we had cut Team Buses when we got relegated it may have meant less redundancies as lets face it - travelling on the Team Bus was didn't change performances much 

So looking at it objectively - they have provided an update via the Jags Trust which is clear and unambiguous - there has been cost reductions - but these were ongoing and perhaps the budgeted revenues arent matching  the actual revenues   

Im honestly not sure what all the fuss is about ?  

  

    

JJ, with the greatest respect this is very hypocritical of you. You are holding the last board and the new board to different standards. Posting time and time again (and rightly imho) for the silent chair and board to make a statement.

But you hide behind a post from the jags trust as being sufficient word from this new board. 

Read the post from  Tartanc4 in his thread re the herald story, there are serious questions to be asked of your pals in this new board. They need to speak to us the fans directly through the club web site. They need to keep us fans informed and keep us on side cos we are about to go through a horrendously difficult period.

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20 minutes ago, Mr Bunny said:

I always had the impression Weir had put the money up for another 2 years funding  (perhaps in an escrow bank account); even if he hadn't it would look a bit petty if he withdrew that I'd think.  With the recent money from Lindsay and Fitzie we ought to have  been able to put something aside for the youth policy.  If the new owners really want us to develop players they had better back it too.

Don’t think he’s been petty at all. I think he has been tremendously upset at everything and it’s not a decision he has taken lightly 

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2 minutes ago, JAG1970 said:

Perhaps the new owners, assuming it goes through, don’t want Caldwell as the manager hence the transfer fund has been pulled. 

And the bus being cancelled? The suggestion that they are not interested in promotion needs to be addressed ASAP or it’s hardly going to be a great incentive to get new fans going along 

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5 minutes ago, Third Lanark said:

And the bus being cancelled? The suggestion that they are not interested in promotion needs to be addressed ASAP or it’s hardly going to be a great incentive to get new fans going along 

TL I'm generally with you on this, but the "not interested in promotion" bit just sounds like a disgruntled insider, and not something that i'd expect to be addressed.

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24 minutes ago, allyo said:

TL I'm generally with you on this, but the "not interested in promotion" bit just sounds like a disgruntled insider, and not something that i'd expect to be addressed.

I agree with you allyo in that if there is any truth in the article then I would think Caldwell would be away by the weekend- the players are going to be demoralised, he is clearly being undermined and not backed on targets, even the cessation of the bus makes us look amateurish. whoever is the manager is they are going to be receiving Barnsley fringe players whether they want them or not and I think the board want a puppet who will do exactly what they are told. Caldwell won’t put up with that, mind you not sure other managers would either which is why it will be probably someone unknown who takes over - of course providing the article is true.

 

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26 minutes ago, Third Lanark said:

I agree with you allyo in that if there is any truth in the article then I would think Caldwell would be away by the weekend- the players are going to be demoralised, he is clearly being undermined and not backed on targets, even the cessation of the bus makes us look amateurish. whoever is the manager is they are going to be receiving Barnsley fringe players whether they want them or not and I think the board want a puppet who will do exactly what they are told. Caldwell won’t put up with that, mind you not sure other managers would either which is why it will be probably someone unknown who takes over - of course providing the article is true.

 

I agree, I can't see Caldwell staying.

I may be totally wrong but the whole thing to me seems entirely logical, understandable, predictable, and fairly inevitable given the anticipated takeover by billionaires with no previos interest in the club. Which is why I was surprised that the whole thing didn't concern more people from the start. 

But maybe I've just invented the whole script in my head and have convinced myself of its accuracy.

I suppose we'll find out. Maybe.

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Re the nae team bus aspect. I can remember under Bertie Auld's management  I used to see the players (on match days) going to Firhill before 10.00 in the morning (even for home games). To have players making their own way to away games is frankly totally amateurish. 

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4 minutes ago, MonehJags said:

Surely the transfer fund is made up partly by season ticket sales. So what happens to that money if the new company took over? Does it line the pockets of the current board on their departure?

Great point mate..

I think it's absolutely shocking that the fans have had to find out the transfer fund isn't getting given to the manager through a news paper article. 

I actually find it an insult to our loyal season ticket holders that promotion isn't a priority, what a great way to start the season. Why would anyone who hasn't got their season ticket yet buy one now ??

Pinning all hope on this dual ownership for the takeover seems stupid also, what if it doesn't go through.. 4 players make a huge difference to a squad. There's no guarantee we will stay in the division.

It's a shame Colin Weir probably couldn't afford to buy the club outright..  Guy has only had our clubs future in mind when putting funds into it.

Clubs a ******* Circus at the moment.

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16 minutes ago, MonehJags said:

Surely the transfer fund is made up partly by season ticket sales. So what happens to that money if the new company took over? Does it line the pockets of the current board on their departure?

No. Or at least not directly.

That money would be in the assets of PTFC and therefore be available for the new board to use on PTFC business. Nobody can just dip their hands in the till.

That said, with increased assets, the buying price could be higher and therefore the current directors could benefit indirectly

 

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10 hours ago, a f kincaid said:

The club I've supported for over 50 years is now truly a laughing stock. 

We have a multi-millionaire benefactor who has spent countless tens of thousands in support of the club's playing ambitions via a youth academy and given promises of funding for a training complex.  If true, the removal of the previous Chairman has caused him to sever his association with the club, putting in jeopardy the future of the former and the cancellation of the latter.

Generations of managers at our level have doubtless wished they had at their disposal the sort of money that Thistle are alleged to have received recently from transfer fees.  We, on the other hand have a manager that has the money (if these rumours are true) - and remember he said at the first Meet the Manager night that he hadn't spent all of his January window budget - but he has been  told he can't spend any of it.  Most takeovers involve the incoming owners pumping money into the club to stabilise it, even if they expect to recoup their initial investment.  This is truly a strange variation! 

We have prospective owners who, if true, have announced promotion is not a priority this season.  Will this demotivate the players?  Will it make them adopt a "we'll show them" attitude?  What will the impact on fans be?  What will the impact on the manager be?

 

 

 

 

I think that when Dundee Utd got their new American owners last year, they also said that promotion wasn’t the priority for last season.

 

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