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'Tis not the job of a moderator to stop people writing here. The rules are pretty simple:

reported ad hominem attacks will be investigated (and if found to be true) or write stuff that could get the site into trouble

and you'll either be warned / your post deleted, or - worst case scenario -  banned either temporarily or permanently.

This particular thread has had a vigorous exchange of views, and perhaps more heat than light. But the quality of the debate - it seems to me at least - is down to the lack of information.  That, in and of itself, means that whatever side you happen to be on is for a fan, very frustrating.

So, I have no intention of closing threads just because the quality of the postings isn't great. That is not the role of a moderator.

If you wake up the following morning you can always delete something you wish you'd never said.

 

 

 

 

 

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Just reading through dozens of posts here so apologies for it being a bit out of sync.

 

Britton confirmed at the first meet the manager evening that Caldwell was under budget in Jan window & it would be added to the summer window.

 

However.. when you consider the players that came in January against the players that came in under Archibald last summer it looks as though there was some sort of ‘extra’ money made available. Caldwell has to get rid of Archiblad’s signings (all seemed either bargain basement or really poor scouting) then being in experience like Saunders, McDonald , Cardle etc. 

Id suggest these guys were being paid more than the Ntambwe, Mutombo, Storer etc. There must have been extra monies put into the transfer kitty last season (Mr Weir?).

Wouldn’t have been first time as pretty sure it was Weir who funded the McGinn transfer/contract after all our right backs injured that season.

As for the takeover. Been going on too long now. BoD seem unconvinced. Now is that unconvinced it will happen or unconvinced by New City Capital? 

I never thought I’d feel sorry for Caldwell but I think he’s been shafted a little re budgets. Not the manager’s job to balance the books. It’s his job to balance the squad & id he was told there was money available for these 4 targets then of course you sign players as they become available. Still has until 31/8 to complete squad.

Now however... I’ll take the league table as is just now.

Crowds of 5000? Think they’ll find numbers drop again through the season. Then again, they’re wanting out so what do they care.

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8 minutes ago, Lenziejag said:

Whose rules ? Fifa, Eufa, Fa, EFL, SFA, SPFL ?

Eufa obviously allowed it ? Is their jurisdiction higher than national associations?

Think it’s down to the FAs rules down south , not permitting any shareholder to have more than a 10% shareholding in any club .

Think the European dual ownership is slightly different, for example if Watford and Granada both qualified for European football only one would be allowed to enter .

Would imagine it would come down to the English FA and the SFA to sanction the takeover 

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37 minutes ago, Lenziejag said:

Whose rules ? Fifa, Eufa, Fa, EFL, SFA, SPFL ?

Eufa obviously allowed it ? Is their jurisdiction higher than national associations?

There’s no such thing as Eufa, so it’s probably not their rules, but they obviously also can’t have allowed it, what with not existing and all.

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1 hour ago, blakey said:

Jeez - I go out for the night and this thread explodes again. I was reflecting on yesterday’s meeting again though. A lot of this is still rather unclear but what became clearer =

Old board were apparently running the club at a potential budget deficit. The recent changes to the board have impacted the player budget. I know that directly contradicts Gerry’s answer yesterday, but that’s the only way I can make sense of the other answers. That is - Gary said that he had shared a recruitment plan with the board that is incomplete. Also david Kelly said they came in and had to make some changes so that the budget was corrected.

The sooner the conversations with the consortium are sorted out the better. It sounds like the new board are still hoping to get back on board with colin weir but feel like they are stymied there. Presumably that will only happen if Jackie is reinstated in some fashion. It might also rely upon the consortium bid failing.

The other major difference between the old board and the new board = old board did not see value in speaking to consortium and new board do. It’s a matter of opinion which course of action is correct but we’ll need that to play out now.

In summary its a mess. What is even sadder is that we’ve completely ballsed up the relationship with colin weir and impacted the financials of the youth setup, and the possible underwriting of costs at the parent club. I don’t really care if that’s an unsustainable way of running the club. Having a lottery winner help out at the football club should be a welcome unusual set of circumstances. 

Another sad point is that I believe that all the parties involve only want the best for thistle. The guys that spoke yesterday all seem like passionate thistle guys. Even the cricket chap. There had been some suggestion and incredulity that the old board was not make up of thistle fans. I think it is clear that Jackie is definitely a passionate thistle fan now. 

Ive got to feel a bit sorry for Gary Caldwell now. His plans for the player pool is definitely impacted just now. New board needs to sort the consortium and colin weir stuff ASAP or the run the risk of taking us backwards.

In what sense is it clear that Jacqui Low is now a passionate Thistle fan? Because she was at the game on Friday night (and happily some of her fan club on Twitter tweeted about it?).

Any ongoing desire to be involved in the club will come from a mixture of ego and resentment at being ousted - I am absolutely not buying any narrative painting her as a diehard Jags fan. 

Edited by KemoAvdiu
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3 minutes ago, Woodstock Jag said:

There’s no such thing as Eufa, so it’s probably not their rules, but they obviously also can’t have allowed it, what with not existing and all.

How do you mean there is no such thing as Eufa ? Who runs the European championships, Nations league, Champions League, Europa League. 

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1 minute ago, Lenziejag said:

How do you mean there is no such thing as Eufa ? Who runs the European championships, Nations league, Champions League, Europa League. 

UEFA, but it is a bit petty to pick on a typo in an online forum. Everyone knew who you meant

Edited by Dick Dastardly
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2 minutes ago, KemoAvdiu said:

In what sense is it clear that Jacqui Low is now a passionate Thistle fan? Because she was at the game on a Friday night (and happily some of her fan club on Twitter tweeted about it?).

Any ongoing desire to be involved in the club will come from a mixture of ego and resentment at being ousted - I am absolutely not buying any narrative painting her as a diehard Jags fan. 

Whether she is or isn't a Thistle fan, can anyone explain the bitterness towards her from many people? I've never really understood that.

Is it just about Chris Erskine, Kris Doolan, doubts about Caldwell, some dodgy communications (the things we all know about) or is there something else at play? 

From what I've seen there were grounds for doubt, but not for the extent of contempt that seems to have been directed at her.

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55 minutes ago, allyo said:

Are you referring to Colin Weir or the prospective owners? 

For me it was Colin Weir.  He did some great stuff clearing debt and funding a youth academy short term.  The new board were very respectful and full of praise for him.  

He's not a businessman.  He was an ordinary punter who got very lucky and has used his money wisely.  However if he wants to stop his plans due to change in priorities, interests or wanting to blow it all in Las Vegas like a Nicholas Cage film that's his choice.  If he decides not to communicate with the club that's his choice.  It was hard enough getting in contact with my solicitor when buying a house!

The fans now expect him to be our saviour.  That genuinely scares me.

 

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5 minutes ago, Lambies Lost Doo said:

For me it was Colin Weir.  He did some great stuff clearing debt and funding a youth academy short term.  The new board were very respectful and full of praise for him.  

He's not a businessman.  He was an ordinary punter who got very lucky and has used his money wisely.  However if he wants to stop his plans due to change in priorities, interests or wanting to blow it all in Las Vegas like a Nicholas Cage film that's his choice.  If he decides not to communicate with the club that's his choice.  It was hard enough getting in contact with my solicitor when buying a house!

The fans now expect him to be our saviour.  That genuinely scares me.

 

Leaving Largs could be a good movie 

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26 minutes ago, KemoAvdiu said:

In what sense is it clear that Jacqui Low is now a passionate Thistle fan? Because she was at the game on Friday night (and happily some of her fan club on Twitter tweeted about it?).

Any ongoing desire to be involved in the club will come from a mixture of ego and resentment at being ousted - I am absolutely not buying any narrative painting her as a diehard Jags fan. 

It’s just my opinion. I’ve met her previously too and thought she had a genuine passion for the club. I was less aware of the old/new guard but they also convinced me of their motivations yesterday (although their decisions do concern me).

I’m not taking sides here just giving my opinion that the 2 boards want the same thing. They just have different ways of going about it.

jacqui does not deserve the vilification that some folk direct her way. I’m not sure of the basis for it.

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10 minutes ago, Lambies Lost Doo said:

For me it was Colin Weir.  He did some great stuff clearing debt and funding a youth academy short term.  The new board were very respectful and full of praise for him.  

He's not a businessman.  He was an ordinary punter who got very lucky and has used his money wisely.  However if he wants to stop his plans due to change in priorities, interests or wanting to blow it all in Las Vegas like a Nicholas Cage film that's his choice.  If he decides not to communicate with the club that's his choice.  It was hard enough getting in contact with my solicitor when buying a house!

The fans now expect him to be our saviour.  That genuinely scares me.

 

That’s not really the point though. It’s the fact that the new board jeopardised that relationship (with colin). Maybe the fans have a far fetched notion that he would continue to help fund the club. But that notion was based on the fact that he had a recent history of doing that.

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25 minutes ago, scotty said:

I think for some it's the pronoun "she" that does it!

Maybe for some, but I also think putting all criticism of her down to misogyny isn’t credible. My main criticism of her was the empty rhetoric that seemed to perpetuate every one of her public statements and which seemed to infuse all of our club statements / communications as a result. While to be expected from a PR person, I found it completely infuriating and felt it hinted at taking fans for mugs. Those transparent PR manoeuvrings seem to have continued even now she’s not Chair. 

That’s not to say the new owners will be perfect - we simply don’t know enough at this point. 

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Here's my take on yesterday...

First, fair play to those shareholders who placed themselves in the eye of the storm. They took some tough questions and answered them as fully and as truthfully as they could. I don't think they're the real driving force behind the takeover, though, and I'd like to see the Chairman (David Beattie) conduct a similar exercise.

I think it's fair to say that, last season, the Chairman (Jacqui Low) and the Chief Executive (Gerry Britton) burned a hole through their budget. My guess is that the £200k quoted in the press this week was coming from Colin Weir. If that's the case, then it's just not sustainable. I said on one of the FB fan pages that if the shareholders told us that money wasn't available for players for reasons pertaining to financial management then I would accept that. I do.

*But*, I do think they were placed in an unenviable position by David Beattie and Ian Maxwell's reluctance to sack Alan Archibald and David Beattie's post-relegation budget. In other words, they were having to deal with *some* issues that weren't of their making. Jacqui and Gerry could have tightened the purse strings, but I think the January signings were made to halt relegation (despite hyperbolic promotion talk), which would have been an even bigger financial disaster.

Maybe that's why Norman Springford was so reluctant to criticise those ousted in July. Or maybe he's just a noble guy. You really can't have any issues with people like him, Ronnie Gilfillan and David Kelly. He did make a point of saying that he hadn't seen the statement dated 11 July and wouldn't have signed off the line saying that "existing investors had raised concerns about the direction of the club". 

I would like to know how Propco factors into this, though, particularly with regards to who has money tied up in it and how, if possible, they would benefit. Those present couldn't answer that because they aren't investors in that entity.

I was satisfied that a commitment was drawn from those shareholders present, and by Gerry Britton on behalf of David Beattie, that they would happily try and set up a meeting for the members (not just the boards) of the fans' trusts with a representative of the prospective new owners, where David Beattie would outline his reasons for selling and the prospective new owners would set out their reasons for buying, *before* any sale is finalised.

That's where my loyalties lie - with the club and its fans. Not with any individuals on past or present boards. Because I think they're all f*cking at it to one degree or another.

Edited by Dark Passenger
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5 minutes ago, blakey said:

That’s not really the point though. It’s the fact that the new board jeopardised that relationship (with colin). Maybe the fans have a far fetched notion that he would continue to help fund the club. But that notion was based on the fact that he had a recent history of doing that.

The shareholders who put £ in 20 years ago and have given up time away from their careers to focus on Thistle cannot be beholden to one man though and neither can we as fans.

They wanted to find out more info from a potential investment.  The other board didn't.  They are still gathering information and will use their business experience to give a response.  They have a lot of long term success in business.  You can't say No to something that could and they emphasised could be positive.  Maybe it wont happen.  They'll run the club to break even with no debt instead of small loss like the previous board.

Colin Weir has went "nah not for me."  That's his choice.  He's decided not to communicate with club.  That's his choice.  His £ was always short term.  No training ground.  That's his choice.  Sorry club and McParland family.  No youth funding.  Sorry 15 yr old from Possil learning football and life skills plus getting chance to sample culture abroad.  That's his choice.   There was a chap called "Donners" who wouldn't let it go.  I don't see him going to Largs to hunt down someone who is not talking and is famous for a low profile.

For me Malcolm Cannon was the best communicator.  Just standing up made it better.  Hopefully he'll help improve things.

(On a side note Caldwell came across well as usual.  However what he says v what is on the pitch does not match.  I compare us to McNamara promo season of 4-3-3 and we are nowhere near that.)

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4 minutes ago, Dark Passenger said:

Here's my take on yesterday...

First, fair play to those shareholders who placed themselves in the eye of the storm. They took some tough questions and answered them as fully and as truthfully as they could. I don't think they're the real driving force behind the takeover, though, and I'd like to see the Chairman (David Beattie) conduct a similar exercise.

I think it's fair to say that, last season, the Chairman (Jacqui Low) and the Chief Executive (Gerry Britton) burned a hole through their budget. My guess is that they £200k quoted in the press this week was coming from Colin Weir. If that's the case, then it's just not sustainable. I said on one of the FB pages that if the shareholders told us that money wasn't available for players due to the way finances had been managed then I would accept that. I do.

*But*, I do think they were placed in an unenviable position by David Beattie and Ian Maxwell's reluctance to sack Alan Archibald and David Beattie's post-relegation budget. In other words, they were having to deal with *some* issues that weren't of their making. Jacqui and Gerry could have tightened the purse strings, but I think decisions taken with regards to signings in January were designed to halt relegation (despite hyperbolic promotion talk), which would have been an even bigger financial disaster.

Maybe that's why Norman Springford was so reluctant to criticise those ousted in July. Or maybe he's just a noble guy. You really can't have any issues with people like him, Ronnie Gilfillan and David Kelly. He did make a point of saying that he hadn't seen the statement dated 11 July and wouldn't have signed off the line saying that "existing investors had raised concerns about the direction of the club". 

I would like to know how Propco ties into this, though, particularly with regards to who has money tied up in it and how, if possible, they would benefit. Those present couldn't answer that because they aren't investors in that entity.

I was happy that a commitment was drawn from those shareholders present, and by Gerry Britton on behalf of David Beattie, that they would be happy to try and set up a meeting for the members - not just the boards - of the fans' trusts with a representative of the prospective new owners, where David Beattie would outline his reasons for selling and the prospective new owners would set out their reasons for buying *before* any sale is finalised.

That's where my loyalties lie - with the club and its fans. Not with any individuals on past or present boards. Because it think they're all f*cking at it to one degree or another.

Where does Gerry Britton fit into this , surely a Chief Executive steers the Club as he sees fit , he seems to be getting very little criticism at all and he’s obviously the common denominator in Old Board / New Board

Any other Company the Chief Executive goes if the business isn’t getting run properly.

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The thing that I was not expecting was that the consortium have not actually said they want to buy these shares yet. I may have misunderstood what was happening but I thought they had said to the shareholders this is our plan, they said we like the sound of that and what we were waiting on was the SFA/EFL saying yes or no. But as Mr Gilfillian said the consortium actually might not even make an offer.

As there is no clear timescale for this to be resolved one way or the other the current Board need to act as if they are in charge for the forseeable future and make decisions accordingly not just about a holding position.

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17 hours ago, Semi Nurainen said:

Genuinely, why do we have two Trusts?

I did a copy and paste onto a word document with various statements from each of the supporter organisations and an explanation as to why we have ended up with two 'trusts' [the explanation is courtesy of Woodstock Jag]

I refer to this when I get confused on the matter of who is who, and who does what

 

The Jags Trust -PTFC Trust history.odt

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