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Message added by douglas clark

'Tis not the job of a moderator to stop people writing here. The rules are pretty simple:

reported ad hominem attacks will be investigated (and if found to be true) or write stuff that could get the site into trouble

and you'll either be warned / your post deleted, or - worst case scenario -  banned either temporarily or permanently.

This particular thread has had a vigorous exchange of views, and perhaps more heat than light. But the quality of the debate - it seems to me at least - is down to the lack of information.  That, in and of itself, means that whatever side you happen to be on is for a fan, very frustrating.

So, I have no intention of closing threads just because the quality of the postings isn't great. That is not the role of a moderator.

If you wake up the following morning you can always delete something you wish you'd never said.

 

 

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

We will have a Board elected by the Shareholders to run the Club - they wont have any shares - therefore no different from the previous Board - Im assuming they will look for Directors from our Fan Base to run the place - that shouldn't be hard to do  - Im guessing David Kelly - Ian Dodds & Malcolm Cannon will stay on - so its just three Directors maybe four -  not that much different from what we had in the past - you in the main recruit a Board from your  Fan Base  

Thanks for that but will they be able to put it n any substantial investment to take the club forward as it has been claimed that Mr Beattie has not been able to get any the younger weathly supporters to take an interest to run the club.

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Just now, alexander livingstone said:

Thanks for that but will they be able to put it n any substantial investment to take the club forward as it has been claimed that Mr Beattie has not been able to get any the younger weathly supporters to take an interest to run the club.

What Young Wealthy Supporters - lets be clear - there is No more Supporters that are going to "invest" everyone with any cash has been hit on numerous occasions - so the Model going forward is Lean Mean and Hungry - playing Young Guys - giving them a chance - Im ok with that to be honest     

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9 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Because JLo clearly stated Colin Weir did not finance the Club - The Thistle Weir Academy is a separate legal entity with its own Board and accounts - if Part Time is what we can afford well thats life but we at least  are on our own - not beholding to someone ? If Colin Weir wants to buy the Club fair enough - the Benefactor thing isnt really how things work  _ Im of the opinion  its a positive move he is no longer involved - we now deal with reality on finances 

So if we can’t make ends meet now allegedly, that would make the Academy redundant?

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15 minutes ago, jlsarmy said:

So if we can’t make ends meet now allegedly, that would make the Academy redundant?

If I recall correctly it was mentioned by David Kelly that we were close to the Academy being self sufficient. I would assume that is through some of the Lindsay sell on and Fitzpatrick transfer fee being directed there.

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2 hours ago, Jagged Edge said:

Sorry, but that is crazy talk.

Budget A - live within means projecting a break-even position at year end.

Budget B - splash the cash on additional/higher quality players hoping to get promotion. How do you balance this at year end - only by a big influx of cash.

Sorry but you clearly don’t understand the concept of forecasting budgets based on variable income. A budget based on an average crowd of 2500 will look quite different from one based on an average crowd of 3500. Both budgets will balance but the respective parties will likely disagree on whether there is a potential deficit/underspend. This isn’t an exact science so personal interpretation comes into play. 

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47 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Because JLo clearly stated Colin Weir did not finance the Club - The Thistle Weir Academy is a separate legal entity with its own Board and accounts - if Part Time is what we can afford well thats life but we at least  are on our own - not beholding to someone ? If Colin Weir wants to buy the Club fair enough - the Benefactor thing isnt really how things work  _ Im of the opinion  its a positive move he is no longer involved - we now deal with reality on finances 

Do you know who is on the Board of the Academy and where to find their accounts ?

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3 hours ago, Jagged Edge said:

Sorry, but that is crazy talk.

Budget A - live within means projecting a break-even position at year end.

Budget B - splash the cash on additional/higher quality players hoping to get promotion. How do you balance this at year end - only by a big influx of cash.

With Budget B, it is not unreasonable to expect more fans through the turnstiles. An average increase of just 400  would be 7200 bums on seats over 18 home league games. with an average spend of £25, that would amount to £180,000 additional income. 

I have just picked these numbers and they may or may not have any accuracy, but it is not impossible to create a balanced budget with Plan B.

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1 minute ago, Dick Dastardly said:

With Budget B, it is not unreasonable to expect more fans through the turnstiles. An average increase of just 400  would be 7200 bums on seats over 18 home league games. with an average spend of £25, that would amount to £180,000 additional income. 

I have just picked these numbers and they may or may not have any accuracy, but it is not impossible to create a balanced budget with Plan B.

Assuming he buys the correct players and gets the desired results, then overspend can potentially be recouped by increase income.

Its very risky though as [A] he may not get the results, Even with results, the performances may be boring or poor to watch so the expected uptake in tickets doesn’t happen.

To get an extra 400 adult payees that’s looking at around a 20% increase, and even that would only give £180k less Vat. 

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3 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

Assuming he buys the correct players and gets the desired results, then overspend can potentially be recouped by increase income.

Its very risky though as [A] he may not get the results, Even with results, the performances may be boring or poor to watch so the expected uptake in tickets doesn’t happen.

To get an extra 400 adult payees that’s looking at around a 20% increase, and even that would only give £180k less Vat. 

Accept that and it was very simiplistic , not considering an increase in hospitality and other revenue streams. I was just trying to suggest that it would be possible to balance both budgets

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1 hour ago, ClydebankJag said:

Sorry but you clearly don’t understand the concept of forecasting budgets based on variable income. A budget based on an average crowd of 2500 will look quite different from one based on an average crowd of 3500. Both budgets will balance but the respective parties will likely disagree on whether there is a potential deficit/underspend. This isn’t an exact science so personal interpretation comes into play. 

Correct 

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1 hour ago, Fawlty Towers said:

If I recall correctly it was mentioned by David Kelly that we were close to the Academy being self sufficient. I would assume that is through some of the Lindsay sell on and Fitzpatrick transfer fee being directed there.

The Transfer Fees will be in stages - so going forward next tranch should be able to help Fund the Academy with some belt tightening   

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5 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said:

Accept that and it was very simiplistic , not considering an increase in hospitality and other revenue streams. I was just trying to suggest that it would be possible to balance both budgets

Thats what has happened at Barnsley the new owners have balancedthe budget and increased revenues by over 50%.Out club can't even operate s website properly for booking season tickets

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23 minutes ago, Fawlty Towers said:

Now there is a conundrum, our youth set ups board is made up of members of our old board who don’t get on with our new board. Is there anything to stop the academy offering it’s players else where rather than Thistle or to demand a large fee?

Also is the old Chairman still on the board of the Partick Thistle Trust ?

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9 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

Now there is a conundrum, our youth set ups board is made up of members of our old board who don’t get on with our new board. Is there anything to stop the academy offering it’s players else where rather than Thistle or to demand a large fee?

Also is the old Chairman still on the board of the Partick Thistle Trust ?

At the PTFC Trust meeting on Saturday the Club Reps were given as David Beattie, Gerry Britton plus one more to be decided which was as a result of the recent changes.

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Can you say what happened at the meeting FT?  Did the Trust come to a view about the takeover situation and the Board changes?

Beattie mentioned discussions with, and support from, the Jags Trust, but no comment that I have seen from him about PTFC Trust, other than to urge the two trusts to talk more to each other.

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4 minutes ago, eljaggo said:

Can you say what happened at the meeting FT?  Did the Trust come to a view about the takeover situation and the Board changes?

Beattie mentioned discussions with, and support from, the Jags Trust, but no comment that I have seen from him about PTFC Trust, other than to urge the two trusts to talk more to each other.

It was quite a brief meeting but the PTFC Trust don't believe they have enough info yet to make a decision as to whether they are in favour of the proposed takeover.

They have asked for a meeting with the reps from the consortium which David Beattie has said should not be a problem. The reason the Jags Trust had been consulted prior to the new board coming in was because Jacqui Low, Alan Rough and Gerry Britton were club reps on the Trust Board.

It was stated as well that the Trust had a very good relationship with the old Board and would get an update after each meeting of the Club Board. David Beattie has pledged to continue this.

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25 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

Now there is a conundrum, our youth set ups board is made up of members of our old board who don’t get on with our new board. Is there anything to stop the academy offering it’s players else where rather than Thistle or to demand a large fee?

Also is the old Chairman still on the board of the Partick Thistle Trust ?

You’ve obviously read the accounts, would you say the liabilities are expenses and wages ?( 130/140 k per year )

With Jaqui low , Michael Robertson and Gerry Britton on the Weir Academy Board sounds like we’re one big dysfunctional family .

I’m not sure where you can see Colin Weirs donations in the accounts .

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11 minutes ago, jlsarmy said:

You’ve obviously read the accounts, would you say the liabilities are expenses and wages ?( 130/140 k per year )

With Jaqui low , Michael Robertson and Gerry Britton on the Weir Academy Board sounds like we’re one big dysfunctional family .

I’m not sure where you can see Colin Weirs donations in the accounts .

They are small company accounts - you cannot see the amounts put in by Colin Weir, nor the annual wages

The only thing you can see is that the liabilities are higher than the assets by £130k (as at May 2018)

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51 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

Now there is a conundrum, our youth set ups board is made up of members of our old board who don’t get on with our new board. Is there anything to stop the academy offering it’s players else where rather than Thistle or to demand a large fee?

Also is the old Chairman still on the board of the Partick Thistle Trust ?

Frankly this is what happens when you have a Benefactor  as opposed to a proper structure and its at arms length from the Club - valid points ref who has the Contracts of the Players - however if funding stops-  by default Players dont have a Team to play for ?   

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12 minutes ago, jaf said:

They are small company accounts - you cannot see the amounts put in by Colin Weir, nor the annual wages

The only thing you can see is that the liabilities are higher than the assets by £130k (as at May 2018)

Ok sounds like that is expenditure to run the Academy, and PTFC are paying the salaries of Scott Allison, Ryan McCann  and the rest of the Academy coaching staff through the Club .

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1 hour ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Frankly this is what happens when you have a Benefactor  as opposed to a proper structure and its at arms length from the Club - valid points ref who has the Contracts of the Players - however if funding stops-  by default Players dont have a Team to play for ?   

I seem to remember before we had a benefactor we didn’t have an academy .,,,,

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