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Message added by douglas clark

'Tis not the job of a moderator to stop people writing here. The rules are pretty simple:

reported ad hominem attacks will be investigated (and if found to be true) or write stuff that could get the site into trouble

and you'll either be warned / your post deleted, or - worst case scenario -  banned either temporarily or permanently.

This particular thread has had a vigorous exchange of views, and perhaps more heat than light. But the quality of the debate - it seems to me at least - is down to the lack of information.  That, in and of itself, means that whatever side you happen to be on is for a fan, very frustrating.

So, I have no intention of closing threads just because the quality of the postings isn't great. That is not the role of a moderator.

If you wake up the following morning you can always delete something you wish you'd never said.

 

 

 

 

 

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44 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Dont really care about him - but his name keeps getting used as though his funding withdrawal is key - reality is that its not 

Agree with a lot of things you say but you’re seriously wrong, Colin Weir comes in and gifts our club so we are clear of debt and you’re criticising him . He helps us with funds to start up a youth Academy where before we had very little youth policy or indeed a scouting system.

What can be levelled at our Club and directors is the serious mismanagement of the Club and also I believe not utilising the Academy to the maximum benefit.

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1 hour ago, jlsarmy said:

Agree with a lot of things you say but you’re seriously wrong, Colin Weir comes in and gifts our club so we are clear of debt and you’re criticising him . He helps us with funds to start up a youth Academy where before we had very little youth policy or indeed a scouting system.

What can be levelled at our Club and directors is the serious mismanagement of the Club and also I believe not utilising the Academy to the maximum benefit.

This in bucket fulls.

JJ clearly has a jealous chip on his shoulder about colin weir which was fully evident in his "what jealous of a man who picked 6 lucky numbers

 

Edited by Guest
leave out the personal abuse
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2 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

The issue with an ad hoc benefactor is exactly where we find ourselves - for any reason they can walk away ( quite rightly ) but the informality of the arrangement brings risk and an organisation cannot plan long term with potential funding being  pulled - thats not a sustainable business model on any level      

Sorry but this is utter pish.

Any Board with a modicum of business acumen would run the books assuming there was no benefactor, so that if the funds were to be withdrawn, the Club could still function. They would then  use the additional money from the benefactor ( which every single Club in Scotland would bite your hand of for) to fund  certain non -recurring  expenses, including for example paying down debt, 1 off capital expenditure items etc etc. 

This is not difficult , it is basic management of the type every business encounters.

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19 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

But we did have a Youth set up that produced Banzo ? The Academy just added additional age groups 

 

You keep posting this p1sh. Banzo was a Celtic academy product whom they rejected and we picked up. Using this example is disingenuous. I shouldn't be surprised right enough. You make sh1te up to support your agenda.

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First thing I don't want to get involved in any of the many personal 'discussions' that are going on in this thread. Also not taking any sides. The programme last season marked a red A against some players names. This denoted Academy Graduate.  4 Players had this A against their names. They were Penrice, Bannigan, McCarthey and Fitzpatrick.

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Finding it hard to hold my tongue on this subject, so making a short term return to post these two views from different sportswriters that sum up my feelings on the matter. How anyone can argue that having a multi millionaire benefactor at a club our size is a bad thing is frankly nuts!!

 

ONLY in Scottish football would a club chase away a multi- millionaire diehard fan with a wide-open wallet in favour of a foreign consortium who haven’t yet put up a penny.

But that’s where Partick Thistle find themselves this morning.

There’s not a board in the land — maybe on the planet — who wouldn’t want the kind of sugardaddy who arrived in the shape of Colin Weir, the lotto rollover winner whose investment made the Jags debt-free and who’d put £6million aside to build a training academy.

Yet last week, he cut all ties in the wake of ex-directors calling in Sheriff Officers, current directors being binned, the players having their team bus taken away and more.

Now it appears that all Firhill’s eggs are in the basket dangled by Chinese-American tycoon Chien Lee and his consortium.

On paper, they sound big time. On paper, them taking over the club could be the best thing that ever happened to Thistle.

But on paper, the same went for Hearts, for Airdrie, for Raith, for Livi and more — and all of these ended up in the grubber, with their self-styled saviours nowhere to be seen.

Me? If I was sitting in that Maryhill boardroom and the choice was between a fan putting up enough for my club to stay in the black, stay at the heart of the community and sustain a realistic level within the game, that’d do me fine.

Here’s hoping for their sake that they make that homespun attitude look silly.

 

AND

 

PARTICK Thistle directors should be flogged for allowing EuroMillions winner Colin Weir to slip through their hands.

Having put £2.5million into Thistle with another £6m pledged for the academy, Weir was the most important person at Firhill bar none.

At a time Jags’ players are having to drive to away games, the loss of the multi-millionaire is a hammer blow to Gary Caldwell’s future plans.

As for the proposed takeover by billionaire Chinese American Chien Lee? If that turns out to be a good deal for Thistle, I’ll eat my hat.

 

 

 


 

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32 minutes ago, Lindau said:

Finding it hard to hold my tongue on this subject, so making a short term return to post these two views from different sportswriters that sum up my feelings on the matter. How anyone can argue that having a multi millionaire benefactor at a club our size is a bad thing is frankly nuts!!

 

ONLY in Scottish football would a club chase away a multi- millionaire diehard fan with a wide-open wallet in favour of a foreign consortium who haven’t yet put up a penny.

But that’s where Partick Thistle find themselves this morning.

There’s not a board in the land — maybe on the planet — who wouldn’t want the kind of sugardaddy who arrived in the shape of Colin Weir, the lotto rollover winner whose investment made the Jags debt-free and who’d put £6million aside to build a training academy.

Yet last week, he cut all ties in the wake of ex-directors calling in Sheriff Officers, current directors being binned, the players having their team bus taken away and more.

Now it appears that all Firhill’s eggs are in the basket dangled by Chinese-American tycoon Chien Lee and his consortium.

On paper, they sound big time. On paper, them taking over the club could be the best thing that ever happened to Thistle.

But on paper, the same went for Hearts, for Airdrie, for Raith, for Livi and more — and all of these ended up in the grubber, with their self-styled saviours nowhere to be seen.

Me? If I was sitting in that Maryhill boardroom and the choice was between a fan putting up enough for my club to stay in the black, stay at the heart of the community and sustain a realistic level within the game, that’d do me fine.

Here’s hoping for their sake that they make that homespun attitude look silly.

 

AND

 

PARTICK Thistle directors should be flogged for allowing EuroMillions winner Colin Weir to slip through their hands.

Having put £2.5million into Thistle with another £6m pledged for the academy, Weir was the most important person at Firhill bar none.

At a time Jags’ players are having to drive to away games, the loss of the multi-millionaire is a hammer blow to Gary Caldwell’s future plans.

As for the proposed takeover by billionaire Chinese American Chien Lee? If that turns out to be a good deal for Thistle, I’ll eat my hat.

 

 

 


 

If only Colin weir had offered Beattie some cash ....

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32 minutes ago, Lindau said:

Finding it hard to hold my tongue on this subject, so making a short term return to post these two views from different sportswriters that sum up my feelings on the matter. How anyone can argue that having a multi millionaire benefactor at a club our size is a bad thing is frankly nuts!!

 

ONLY in Scottish football would a club chase away a multi- millionaire diehard fan with a wide-open wallet in favour of a foreign consortium who haven’t yet put up a penny.

But that’s where Partick Thistle find themselves this morning.

There’s not a board in the land — maybe on the planet — who wouldn’t want the kind of sugardaddy who arrived in the shape of Colin Weir, the lotto rollover winner whose investment made the Jags debt-free and who’d put £6million aside to build a training academy.

Yet last week, he cut all ties in the wake of ex-directors calling in Sheriff Officers, current directors being binned, the players having their team bus taken away and more.

Now it appears that all Firhill’s eggs are in the basket dangled by Chinese-American tycoon Chien Lee and his consortium.

On paper, they sound big time. On paper, them taking over the club could be the best thing that ever happened to Thistle.

But on paper, the same went for Hearts, for Airdrie, for Raith, for Livi and more — and all of these ended up in the grubber, with their self-styled saviours nowhere to be seen.

Me? If I was sitting in that Maryhill boardroom and the choice was between a fan putting up enough for my club to stay in the black, stay at the heart of the community and sustain a realistic level within the game, that’d do me fine.

Here’s hoping for their sake that they make that homespun attitude look silly.

 

AND

 

PARTICK Thistle directors should be flogged for allowing EuroMillions winner Colin Weir to slip through their hands.

Having put £2.5million into Thistle with another £6m pledged for the academy, Weir was the most important person at Firhill bar none.

At a time Jags’ players are having to drive to away games, the loss of the multi-millionaire is a hammer blow to Gary Caldwell’s future plans.

As for the proposed takeover by billionaire Chinese American Chien Lee? If that turns out to be a good deal for Thistle, I’ll eat my hat.

 

 

 


 

Perfectly put , I think David Beattie will leave a legacy but not the one he wants .

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1 hour ago, Auld Jag said:

First thing I don't want to get involved in any of the many personal 'discussions' that are going on in this thread. Also not taking any sides. The programme last season marked a red A against some players names. This denoted Academy Graduate.  4 Players had this A against their names. They were Penrice, Bannigan, McCarthey and Fitzpatrick.

AJ , Banzo played first team football for PTFC in 2010 , don’t think our Academy started till 2015 , so possibly someone is being a bit creative , pushing it a bit with McCarthy as well , played less than 30 times in 3 years , then given a free transfer.

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I m with the second one can’t believe the board has managed to let this happen a good person like Collin Weir who gave our club so much and asked for nothing in return is an absolute disgrace we will look back and rue the day 

Weir cleared all our debts put money into the youth system and probably a lot more than we know  about as a jags fan for 50 plus years I thought when Mr Weir decided to help our club it was all going to be good for thistle and with all the young teams at the club we were finally going to have young players coming through the ranks for the future but not to be I can see it coming to an end what a shame 

I honestly can’t see this new company taking over and being a success and I fear where we will end up the next Airdrie Clyde Gretna Third Lanark Clydebank a long list of failed clubs that were  run into the ground and fans that lost their beloved football team through no fault of their own I dearly hope this is not what happens to my club as I am a bit old to support another team 

I hope the board thinks long and hard about the way they take our club I don’t want them taking a massive gamble with our future I would be happy for us to just be where we are now keeping our proud team of 140 years still here for us to support and not another club on the failed list we are a much liked club and fan base and All the other clubs in Scotland would be sad to see us fail even Morton and Clyde fans would miss the rivalry we have not to mention St Mirren  and Airdrie so think on be sensible we have a lot to lose here

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At first I was minded to think the takeover might be a good thing but now as we know nothing about them and their plans after all this time I’m not so sure ... they could reach out to the fans but chose not to do so

it’s pretty clear their model is to buy control for c£2m then put a loan for that amount onto the clubs balance sheet to be paid back over x years so they effectively buy the club for nothing .... there is no indication there will be investment in any meaningful sense in the stadium, academy or infrastructure if Barnsley is the model

the alternative of Colin weir sitting behind the club paying off the debt, funding the academy , building a training academy looks attractive by comparison plus he’s a fan 

it’s clear Beattie should have spoken to colin weir before jumping into bed with the consortium a basic school boy error ....failure to do that shows I think the clear intention of the shareholders to get out with some cash .... that’s their right but it’s not necessarily the best for the club

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13 minutes ago, javeajag said:

 

it’s pretty clear their model is to buy control for c£2m then put a loan for that amount onto the clubs balance sheet to be paid back over x years so they effectively buy the club for nothing .... there is no indication there will be investment in any meaningful sense in the stadium, academy or infrastructure if Barnsley is the model

 

they have never done that, so not sure why they would start now?

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1 hour ago, jlsarmy said:

AJ , Banzo played first team football for PTFC in 2010 , don’t think our Academy started till 2015 , so possibly someone is being a bit creative , pushing it a bit with McCarthy as well , played less than 30 times in 3 years , then given a free transfer.

Hi jls, not disagreeing with anything you say. Again from the programme all 4 players have PTFC U17 as their previous club. When this is all done, whenever that may be, we as Thistle fans will continue to support the club. No matter who is in charge.

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It’s clear that CW wanted any money he gave to go to PTFC and not into the pockets of shareholders. He donated money to the youth setup with no expectation of us paying him back. He bought shares in the club and gifted them to the fans, the money from his shares clearing the debt. He put in place plans for a training ground, with a significant planned cash outlay. What he didn’t do is what Beattie and co want from the consortium, he didn’t give them cash and allow them to walk away from the club. 

 

So the benefactor gave without expectation whilst the investors had an eye on their profit/loss.

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16 minutes ago, ClydebankJag said:

It’s clear that CW wanted any money he gave to go to PTFC and not into the pockets of shareholders. He donated money to the youth setup with no expectation of us paying him back. He bought shares in the club and gifted them to the fans, the money from his shares clearing the debt. He put in place plans for a training ground, with a significant planned cash outlay. What he didn’t do is what Beattie and co want from the consortium, he didn’t give them cash and allow them to walk away from the club. 

 

So the benefactor gave without expectation whilst the investors had an eye on their profit/loss.

Out of likes again but completely agree with what you say CJ

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3 hours ago, Thistleberight said:

You keep posting this p1sh. Banzo was a Celtic academy product whom they rejected and we picked up. Using this example is disingenuous. I shouldn't be surprised right enough. You make sh1te up to support your agenda.

No its exactly the Model we should follow get Players in there late Teens from the larger Clubs - he was part of the U19 squad that won a Cup for Thistle 

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3 hours ago, Emsca said:

Sorry but this is utter pish.

Any Board with a modicum of business acumen would run the books assuming there was no benefactor, so that if the funds were to be withdrawn, the Club could still function. They would then  use the additional money from the benefactor ( which every single Club in Scotland would bite your hand of for) to fund  certain non -recurring  expenses, including for example paying down debt, 1 off capital expenditure items etc etc. 

This is not difficult , it is basic management of the type every business encounters.

Ok so we now have No Funding for the Youth Academy as it was a stand alone organisation under the auspices of Colin Weir - Club had no direct control 

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3 hours ago, Thistleberight said:

This in bucket fulls.

JJ clearly has a jealous chip on his shoulder about colin weir which was fully evident in his "what jealous of a man who picked 6 lucky numbers

 

First Ive never done the lottery so can hardly be jealous of his picking of 6 Numbers - second why on any level would I be jealous of Colin Weir - seriously mate you really talk some nonsense - I argued six months ago reference the Weir involvement on this Forum - my stance has not changed on any level - jealously - I did a Cross Country Run through Mugdock yesterday the same run Ive been doing since my early 20s - Im in my late 50s - Colin Weir can keep his Euro Millions _ I will take my Cross Country Run every day 

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4 hours ago, jlsarmy said:

Agree with a lot of things you say but you’re seriously wrong, Colin Weir comes in and gifts our club so we are clear of debt and you’re criticising him . He helps us with funds to start up a youth Academy where before we had very little youth policy or indeed a scouting system.

What can be levelled at our Club and directors is the serious mismanagement of the Club and also I believe not utilising the Academy to the maximum benefit.

Im not criticising him - I don't know the man - Im stating that "benefactor" carries major risks - as there is no direct link to the Club 

Also that him going isn't the disaster people are making out - its blown out of proportion 

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5 hours ago, javeajag said:

Yes having more debt would be much better ... I now suspect he did something to you 

But we traded at a profit and the debt was being paid down - escorted him to his seat in the JHS twice - seemed pleasant enough - so don't know the guy beyond that - stop trying to personalise things with trivial nonsense - grow up 

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5 hours ago, Lenziejag said:

I think that since he put in upwards of £1M in paying off the debt and funding the academy, then yes, I think it would have been a disaster.

Our debts were circa £400K to the bank  - other Clubs were getting offered 20 p in the £ from HBOS - I doubt it was anywhere near the figure your quoting - my guess is less than half of that 

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21 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Ok so we now have No Funding for the Youth Academy as it was a stand alone organisation under the auspices of Colin Weir - Club had no direct control 

They did have control, they identified the players within the Academy, they employed the coaches Scott Allison, Ryan McCann etc  , we don’t even know whether Colin Weir took the hit for the total funding for the whole Academy or just helped with some of the costs .

 

 

 

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