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Message added by douglas clark

'Tis not the job of a moderator to stop people writing here. The rules are pretty simple:

reported ad hominem attacks will be investigated (and if found to be true) or write stuff that could get the site into trouble

and you'll either be warned / your post deleted, or - worst case scenario -  banned either temporarily or permanently.

This particular thread has had a vigorous exchange of views, and perhaps more heat than light. But the quality of the debate - it seems to me at least - is down to the lack of information.  That, in and of itself, means that whatever side you happen to be on is for a fan, very frustrating.

So, I have no intention of closing threads just because the quality of the postings isn't great. That is not the role of a moderator.

If you wake up the following morning you can always delete something you wish you'd never said.

 

 

 

 

 

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Just now, jagfox said:

Yes, I'm in the same boat despite speaking to one of the members face to face and providing my email address. 

I think you join automatically by being a season ticket holder and I assume they have access to that database.

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15 minutes ago, Emsca said:

I very much doubt that is the case . 

If, however, we assume you are correct and Colin Weir withdrawing means there is now no direct funding for the Youth academy, then the Board have a decision to make.

From the finite resources available , how much if any do we want to allocate towards running the Youth academy.?

This requires the Board to have a hierarchy of aims/ costs/ commitments.

Eg- Keep the Youth Academy fully funded but reduce Staff wages by 10% OR Keep the Youth Academy fully funded and increase admission prices by 20%. OR Wind up the Youth Academy Or- any host of other combinations/options.

It is all about choices. None of this means that the Club were not absolutely correct to take whatever money Colin Weir was willing to donate  and have greatly benefited from so doing.

Anyone who thinks otherwise has completely lost their marbles.

I think it was Malcolm Cannon who said on Saturday that they were looking at different models to allow the academy to continue, and that the board were presently investigating a range of options. Might have been Ronnie G actually, but someone did.

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1 hour ago, eljaggo said:

The Jags Trust has just emailed me to suggest that the Consortium would determine who (all Trust members or Trust board members only) would attend any meeting with the Trust(s).  I have emailed back to point out that since the Trusts asked for the meeting, they should chair it and determine who attends and also of course set the agenda. 

The Trusts certainly need empowering.  An early joint meeting of both Trusts and their members would be worthwhile, and hopefully stiffen their resolve.

They need to get some cojones and start demanding things rather than take orders 

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1 hour ago, Emsca said:

I very much doubt that is the case . 

If, however, we assume you are correct and Colin Weir withdrawing means there is now no direct funding for the Youth academy, then the Board have a decision to make.

From the finite resources available , how much if any do we want to allocate towards running the Youth academy.?

This requires the Board to have a hierarchy of aims/ costs/ commitments.

Eg- Keep the Youth Academy fully funded but reduce Staff wages by 10% OR Keep the Youth Academy fully funded and increase admission prices by 20%. OR Wind up the Youth Academy Or- any host of other combinations/options.

It is all about choices. None of this means that the Club were not absolutely correct to take whatever money Colin Weir was willing to donate  and have greatly benefited from so doing.

Anyone who thinks otherwise has completely lost their marbles.

The structure of having no direct Control over your Youth System and leaving the funding terms of Operation to a benefactor results in where we are today - Im pretty sure we will have a Youth Structure - however the fact that the Transfer Money from Liam and Fitzy is being used simply to balance the budget "just" is something that people are simply ignoring 

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1 hour ago, jaf said:

I think you join automatically by being a season ticket holder and I assume they have access to that database.

Unfortunately not for me and a few others I've spoken too. I think Alan said they don't have direct access due to DPA laws.

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49 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

The structure of having no direct Control over your Youth System and leaving the funding terms of Operation to a benefactor results in where we are today - Im pretty sure we will have a Youth Structure - however the fact that the Transfer Money from Liam and Fitzy is being used simply to balance the budget "just" is something that people are simply ignoring 

That is just twisted in the extreme ....who ran the youth system Colin weir ? Who appointed the head of the academy ? 

Bizarre 

 

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54 minutes ago, javeajag said:

That is just twisted in the extreme ....who ran the youth system Colin weir ? Who appointed the head of the academy ? 

Bizarre 

 

When you dont Control the Funding you dont control your Youth System - going on goodwill withoutproper structure regards long term finances leaves you exposed - which we now are - the Budget Deficit was stated at the Q&A - funny you have little of concern regards it ? 

Edited by Jordanhill Jag
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2 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

When you dont Control the Funding you dont control your Youth System - going on goodwill withoutproper structure regards long term finances leaves you exposed - which we now are - the Budget Deficit was stated at the Q&A - funny you have little of concern regards it ? 

Because you are talking mince .... the academy has zero to do with any deficit ...we are exposed because your mate Beattie mis managed the relationship with Colin weir 

im also reserving judgement on the apparent deficit until we know exactly how much it was and what caused it unless you can tell us ? 

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Where we are today is down to Beattie sacking Colin Weirs rep on the board. Although never appearing on the accounts I have no doubt that Colin Weir has helped with money outwith the academy and that any overspend caused by the old board saying they would fund the last 3/4 players of Caldwells squad would probably have been underwritten by Weir. 

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1 hour ago, Lindau said:

Where we are today is down to Beattie sacking Colin Weirs rep on the board. Although never appearing on the accounts I have no doubt that Colin Weir has helped with money outwith the academy and that any overspend caused by the old board saying they would fund the last 3/4 players of Caldwells squad would probably have been underwritten by Weir. 

100 per cent 

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12 hours ago, Lindau said:

Where we are today is down to Beattie sacking Colin Weirs rep on the board. Although never appearing on the accounts I have no doubt that Colin Weir has helped with money outwith the academy and that any overspend caused by the old board saying they would fund the last 3/4 players of Caldwells squad would probably have been underwritten by Weir. 

That is a totally unsustainable way to run a club of our size.

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47 minutes ago, Garscube Road End said:

That is a totally unsustainable way to run a club of our size.

100% completely true.

The Weirs money should have been ring fenced and kept for those 'aspirational' parts of running PTFC [ for example a well run youth programme, a woman's team, community based sports sponsorships etc etc]

It sounds [IMO] like the Weirs were drawn into the day to day financing of PTFC and were too polite to define the line between where they were prepared to get involved financially, and did not want to be involved.

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54 minutes ago, Garscube Road End said:

That is a totally unsustainable way to run a club of our size.

It happens at a lot of clubs of our size , probably shouldn’t happen but it is usually dressed up as soft loans from directors , maybe the directors now will have to dig a bit deeper into their pockets now .

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15 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

When you dont Control the Funding you dont control your Youth System - going on goodwill withoutproper structure regards long term finances leaves you exposed - which we now are - the Budget Deficit was stated at the Q&A - funny you have little of concern regards it ? 

You clearly do not understand the concept . 

 

There is a finite amount of money- which comes from different sources.

The Board is charged with  deciding how that money is spent for the good of the club. Eg- fund a Youth Academy, buy players, buy grass seed, buy pies, buy toilet paper etc etc .

If you spend money on one thing it cannot be spent on something else. This nonsense your are spouting about controlling the funding for the Youth System is just rubbish designed to suit your argument. 

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23 minutes ago, jlsarmy said:

It happens at a lot of clubs of our size , probably shouldn’t happen but it is usually dressed up as soft loans from directors , maybe the directors now will have to dig a bit deeper into their pockets now .

Fair enough if you are a director with a vested interest. But to constantly rely on a benefactor is dangerous. This seems to have led us to the financial position we are in.

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17 minutes ago, Garscube Road End said:

Fair enough if you are a director with a vested interest. But to constantly rely on a benefactor is dangerous. This seems to have led us to the financial position we are in.

Don’t you think with Colin Weir’s 2.5 million pounds into the Club over the last 5 years we should be in a good position financially.

If we’re not it’s mismanagement to quite a large extent.

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3 hours ago, Garscube Road End said:

That is a totally unsustainable way to run a club of our size.

And its good to chase a multi millionaire out of a club our size? You are correct but it’s not any different than a director dipping into his pocket to get a manager a player that he needs, outwith the clubs budget. The director takes the hit as does Colin Weir. They fund it. That’s what happens in football. . Definitely wont be happening at our club now.  If this takeover doesn’t happen I look forward to Beattie and Co giving whoever is the manager a budget to get us out of a relegation dogfight in January!!

Edited by Lindau
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1 hour ago, Garscube Road End said:

Fair enough if you are a director with a vested interest. But to constantly rely on a benefactor is dangerous. This seems to have led us to the financial position we are in.

What financial position are we in? Do you know things us mere mortals don’t? The board have said they had no complaints about the way the previous board were running the club. Any club in Scotland would take Colin Weir at their club in a heartbeat yet we have a board that chased him out because of a takeover that seems more unlikely than likely to happen and fans that think it’s not a good  situation to have him around the club. Unbelievable!!

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1 hour ago, Emsca said:

You clearly do not understand the concept . 

 

There is a finite amount of money- which comes from different sources.

The Board is charged with  deciding how that money is spent for the good of the club. Eg- fund a Youth Academy, buy players, buy grass seed, buy pies, buy toilet paper etc etc .

If you spend money on one thing it cannot be spent on something else. This nonsense your are spouting about controlling the funding for the Youth System is just rubbish designed to suit your argument. 

We did not have any say in how the Youth Set Up was being Funded - that was outsourced to a Benefactor who could pull funding at short notice - which he did  - if Funding is controlled by the Club its then forecast and factored in as a long term process  - if that means we cut back elsewhere to fund it - then thats life - currently it could be gone completely because its been cut off overnight  

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I agree with much GRE has said in recent posts. ARu Strathbungo also makes a good point about ring-fencing. My understanding the Weirs money was to be used for clearing the bank debt, set up costs and day to day running of the Academy over a limited and defined period. Ongoing funding was not on the cards and the Academy was to be funded thru its own success. Further dependency on the Weirs was never an option. Thus the question of relying on outside funding should never have arisen with maybe at a push an exception of underwriting or short term assistance with cash flow.

In hindsight the Club Chairperson also being the Weirs advisor on the Board perhaps generated a serious conflict of interests.

Everything seems a tad calmer on here while the two titans of the thread are off presumably recharging their batteries. Oops! Spoke to soon :)

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