New Owner

[Dick Dastardly]

19 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

£300K of additional funding had been agreed for a Promo Push in January - any idea where the likely source of the £300K was likely to be ?  

A delay in maintenance work to the main stand which is why it needs to be shut down this year ? Could be 100 ways to shuffle money from one budget pot to another. 

Basically we don’t know enough to be able to assume it was CW

[Lindau]

10 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Show me where in anyway Ive said that I have No Time for Colin weir - Ive questioned the rationale of being funded on a basis that it can be stopped overnight - the reason is irrelevant - the fact major funding can cease with a few hours notice is not a sustainable model on any level - for anything    

Put it another way then, show me a post in this whole thread where you have praised anything Colin Weir has done for the club. You are like a programmed robot, for 120 pages you have just repeated the same things, over and over and over. I will go back to my semi retirement from this site still awaiting answers to these

What happens if this takeover doesn’t happen?

If it doesn’t, will Beattie and Co fund a January promotion or relegation transfer window?

Why did the shareholders say they were happy with the way the club was being run by the old board?

What other club in Scotland would chase away a multi millionaire fan that funded the academy, cleared the club’s debt, probably on occasion helped the club out and didn’t ask for anything in return?

 

 

Edited August 15, 2019 by Lindau

[Dick Dastardly]

9 hours ago, jaf said:

Sorry this is just ridiculous. 

It will ease the sale if we look less sustainable and less able to balance the books?   It’s more likely to derail the sale during FDD  

 

Well it has to be related to the sale somehow, otherwise why have it ? 200k could easily be covered by changing revenue forecasts, so the current board clearly want that deficit for some reason.

Low - We will sue anyone who suggests financial mismanagement

Springford - We have no issue with the way the club was being run

Beattie - We have a £200k deficit that has to be plugged

Either someone is telling porkies, or the goalposts have been moved. There is so much politicking going on by both sides that I am extremely sceptical of anything that I read. What we need are some facts but I don’t expect to get them any time soon

Edited August 15, 2019 by Dick Dastardly

[javeajag]

6 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Ok so No attempt on any level was made to speak to Colin Weir in advance - and then you make up a story about a Budget deficit - ok fair enough 

Where did I mention budget deficit ? 

[javeajag]

6 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

But the funding can  be pulled at a moments notice - how is that a good thing ?  

If you read my post and looked at the press releases associated with the academy you will know - as you do but choose to forget - that Colin weir was not going to fund the academy indefinitely the aim was for it to be self sufficient so it would not be dependent him .....so your argument falls apart 

[Lindau]

7 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

But the funding can  be pulled at a moments notice - how is that a good thing ?  

Looks to me as if Beattie pulled the funding at a moments notice for the 4 players Caldwell wanted to complete his squad!! 

Edited August 15, 2019 by Lindau

[javeajag]

6 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

It was stated in the Press Statement by the previous Directors that they had lined up an additional  £300K of funding for a Promo Push if required - which would suggest it was in addition to current budget income - its nothing to do with the Accounts  nor is it made up - so where do you think it was going to come from ?   A Loan - a Donation - further Share Issue ? 

Yiu see your proving my point ....you don’t know so you suggest as it suits your argument .....maybe it was from Colin weir or a new investor or something else we can suggest 

and if required doesn’t mean it happened 

[javeajag]

6 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

If he was a Director he is governed by fiduciary duty - as a Benefactor there are No rules - therefore the Club has an exposure and risk which it has no control over  

 

So you would not take money from billy Allan or anyone else who us not  a director ? So close the players fund ? Madness 

[Firhillista]

We'll, since everyone else is doing uninformed speculation, here's my take.

It's all about the deal. The new board was faced with two options:

Option 1 - "Here's our budget for the season. We're going to spend £200,000 more than we're likely to earn, but we'll have a playing squad with a chance of getting promoted. You okay with that?"

Option 2 - "Here's our budget for the season. Look, it balances! You won't have to worry about inheriting any debt. How cool is that?"

They chose to go with option 2. 

Now, my problem with that is that I didn't buy a season ticket to watch a series of boardroom negotiations, I bought it on the understanding that the team I support would be competing to win the league.

I really wish they'd gone for option 1.

[jaf]

2 hours ago, Dick Dastardly said:

Well it has to be related to the sale somehow, otherwise why have it ? 200k could easily be covered by changing revenue forecasts, so the current board clearly want that deficit for some reason.

Low - We will sue anyone who suggests financial mismanagement

Springford - We have no issue with the way the club was being run

Beattie - We have a £200k deficit that has to be plugged

Either someone is telling porkies, or the goalposts have been moved. There is so much politicking going on by both sides that I am extremely sceptical of anything that I read. What we need are some facts but I don’t expect to get them any time soon

We had £551k of cash reserves at May 2018. Lets assume we broke even in year to May 2019.  All any of us can do is play a mad game of financial join the dots using the respective statements as clues and I know no more than anyone else....

From what is being speculated on, the INITIAL budget set seems to have been a deficit of around £500k for this season. (assuming the speculated fees are correct)

We then got lucky - Liam Lindsay and Fitzy bringing in close to that figure. Hurrah, the budget now balances.  (In which case the 'fully costed' claims would be correct, but after the event by subsequent events rather than specifically at the time of setting.)

Old board - so lets ramp up the budget by another 200k. Shareholders - no. Old board sacked, new board in.

The consequential loss of Colin Weir is terrible - but that may have happened at any time, and should not be how we balance budgets.

If the takeover does not happen, we are in a grim position - a disinterested board who have sold 'in their heads'.

I would say we all know we need more players to be competitive (and some might argue a different manager too!) however as much as I would want to be competitive, I would want STJ2 even less, and when you have £551k of cash reserves, setting a £500k deficit budget just blows my mind.

My guess David Kelly would be central to all we don't know. He must have been involved in the initial budget setting. I am guessing any accountant would be uncomfortable with that. Then he and his assistant were made redundant. Then he comes back in with the new board, and speaks about balancing the budgets.

Who knows what to believe, but among all the uninformed speculation, the above seems to bridge the gap between the stated positions of both boards. And as I have often realised in life - the truth is usually somewhere in the middle of two positions.

BTW, just on the old board/new board debate, it should be remembered that Ian Dodds (who we will ignore) and Malcolm Cannon are on both - Malcolm was  a Jacqui Low appointee, and he has not flounced off. He has no allegiance to PTFC, and he spoke well last week I thought.  I just don't think its credible that if the board were the villains some are keen to make out, he would have any reason to hang around and be associated with them. Just a thought.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 15, 2019 by jaf

[ClydebankJag]

57 minutes ago, jaf said:

Malcolm was  a Jacqui Low appointee, and he has not flounced off. 

I don’t think anyone flounced off, did they? 

[javeajag]

53 minutes ago, jaf said:

We had £551k of cash reserves at May 2018. Lets assume we broke even in year to May 2019.  All any of us can do is play a mad game of financial join the dots using the respective statements as clues and I know no more than anyone else....

From what is being speculated on, the INITIAL budget set seems to have been a deficit of around £500k for this season. (assuming the speculated fees are correct)

We then got lucky - Liam Lindsay and Fitzy bringing in close to that figure. Hurrah, the budget now balances.  (In which case the 'fully costed' claims would be correct, but after the event by subsequent events rather than specifically at the time of setting.)

Old board - so lets ramp up the budget by another 200k. Shareholders - no. Old board sacked, new board in.

The consequential loss of Colin Weir is terrible - but that may have happened at any time, and should not be how we balance budgets.

If the takeover does not happen, we are in a grim position - a disinterested board who have sold 'in their heads'.

I would say we all know we need more players to be competitive (and some might argue a different manager too!) however as much as I would want to be competitive, I would want STJ2 even less, and when you have £551k of cash reserves, setting a £500k deficit budget just blows my mind.

My guess David Kelly would be central to all we don't know. He must have been involved in the initial budget setting. I am guessing any accountant would be uncomfortable with that. Then he and his assistant were made redundant. Then he comes back in with the new board, and speaks about balancing the budgets.

Who knows what to believe, but among all the uninformed speculation, the above seems to bridge the gap between the stated positions of both boards. And as I have often realised in life - the truth is usually somewhere in the middle of two positions.

BTW, just on the old board/new board debate, it should be remembered that Ian Dodds (who we will ignore) and Malcolm Cannon are on both - Malcolm was  a Jacqui Low appointee, and he has not flounced off. He has no allegiance to PTFC, and he spoke well last week I thought.  I just don't think its credible that if the board were the villains some are keen to make out, he would have any reason to hang around and be associated with them. Just a thought.

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is my concern it’s hard to see where the apparent overspend is in terms of the playing squad ? How could anyone spend an additional £500k on fewer players ? It’s not credible but then we spend another £500k from the transfers ?! So that’s another million on a squad that we know and pretty well all agree on is costing about £1m......our income is £2m plus so over a million for the other stuff ( and we hav t even mentioned parachute payments ) 

no something does not add up

on Colin weir the plan was to make the academy self sufficient and not reliant on him so his funding was always going to end ....we just managed it badly 

always remember the context we are selling ....it may be the new owners have told Beattie what to do 

[Third Lanark]

1 hour ago, jaf said:

We had £551k of cash reserves at May 2018. Lets assume we broke even in year to May 2019.  All any of us can do is play a mad game of financial join the dots using the respective statements as clues and I know no more than anyone else....

From what is being speculated on, the INITIAL budget set seems to have been a deficit of around £500k for this season. (assuming the speculated fees are correct)

We then got lucky - Liam Lindsay and Fitzy bringing in close to that figure. Hurrah, the budget now balances.  (In which case the 'fully costed' claims would be correct, but after the event by subsequent events rather than specifically at the time of setting.)

Old board - so lets ramp up the budget by another 200k. Shareholders - no. Old board sacked, new board in.

The consequential loss of Colin Weir is terrible - but that may have happened at any time, and should not be how we balance budgets.

If the takeover does not happen, we are in a grim position - a disinterested board who have sold 'in their heads'.

I would say we all know we need more players to be competitive (and some might argue a different manager too!) however as much as I would want to be competitive, I would want STJ2 even less, and when you have £551k of cash reserves, setting a £500k deficit budget just blows my mind.

My guess David Kelly would be central to all we don't know. He must have been involved in the initial budget setting. I am guessing any accountant would be uncomfortable with that. Then he and his assistant were made redundant. Then he comes back in with the new board, and speaks about balancing the budgets.

Who knows what to believe, but among all the uninformed speculation, the above seems to bridge the gap between the stated positions of both boards. And as I have often realised in life - the truth is usually somewhere in the middle of two positions.

BTW, just on the old board/new board debate, it should be remembered that Ian Dodds (who we will ignore) and Malcolm Cannon are on both - Malcolm was  a Jacqui Low appointee, and he has not flounced off. He has no allegiance to PTFC, and he spoke well last week I thought.  I just don't think its credible that if the board were the villains some are keen to make out, he would have any reason to hang around and be associated with them. Just a thought.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Until the audited accounts are shown in a few months we don’t there is a huge debt.

it was very telling that Norman springford said he didn’t have any complaints about the old board and would never have signed off on the statement that was issued criticising them

[sandbank boy]

I don’t know if I can take anymore, I’m off to listen to Brexit debate.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

3 minutes ago, sandbank boy said:

I don’t know if I can take anymore, I’m off to listen to Brexit debate.

My favourite bits on here are when there's a post with a "show me where I said that".  A post containing an entire chapter from Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance could be lost within this thread.

[jaf]

40 minutes ago, Third Lanark said:

Until the audited accounts are shown in a few months we don’t there is a huge debt.

it was very telling that Norman springford said he didn’t have any complaints about the old board and would never have signed off on the statement that was issued criticising them

I am not saying there is any debt.

Audited accounts are historic and factual. Budgets are future and predictions.

[javeajag]

28 minutes ago, sandbank boy said:

I don’t know if I can take anymore, I’m off to listen to Brexit debate.

Can’t take no more - Atomic Rooster 

 

 

 

[Trotter]

Another week, no news.

This has been dragging on for months now. First ‘official’ confirmation about 2 months ago now.

With 1 point out of 6 in the league, a squad which is incomplete & playing a County side today that steamrollered us home & away when it mattered to them in the championship last season, there’s a good chance we may be out the cup at 5pm

Anyone else still wondering why .the ‘billionaire’ head of a venture capital firm wants to buy a struggling Glasgow club with a 3 sided ground surrounded by student properties? 

Anyone think Beattie will manage to fund his way to Firhill this week after seemingly being unable to last week?

Someone on here claimed takeover would be positive as club stagnating etc.

That looks prophetic now!

 

[Jaggernaut]

2 hours ago, Trotter said:

Anyone think Beattie will manage to fund his way to Firhill this week after seemingly being unable to last week?

Brilliant typo there...... or is it deliberate?

[Dick Dastardly]

2 hours ago, Trotter said:

Another week, no news.

This has been dragging on for months now. First ‘official’ confirmation about 2 months ago now.

With 1 point out of 6 in the league, a squad which is incomplete & playing a County side today that steamrollered us home & away when it mattered to them in the championship last season, there’s a good chance we may be out the cup at 5pm

Anyone else still wondering why .the ‘billionaire’ head of a venture capital firm wants to buy a struggling Glasgow club with a 3 sided ground surrounded by student properties? 

Anyone think Beattie will manage to fund his way to Firhill this week after seemingly being unable to last week?

Someone on here claimed takeover would be positive as club stagnating etc.

That looks prophetic now!

 

43 hours and 56 minutes without a post in this thread. I knew it couldn't last

[Pinhead]

Crikey we have gone full circle now...

At the start: Old board bunch of idiots glad theyare gone

Middle: Glad Beattie and co are back

Now: The old board are amazing and some kinda gods we should praise

NO WONDER NOBODY TAKES US SERIOUS!

[Mr Bunny]

30 minutes ago, Pinhead said:

Crikey we have gone full circle now...

At the start: Old board bunch of idiots glad theyare gone

Middle: Glad Beattie and co are back

Now: The old board are amazing and some kinda gods we should praise

NO WONDER NOBODY TAKES US SERIOUS!

Nobody has said the old board were amazing or that they'd want them back.  They've only cast doubts on the takeover - implicitly perhaps  criticising the new board as they are the ones driving it (or claiming to, it doesn't seem to be going anywhere atm).  The way it's been handled could certainly be argued to be damaging our team's prospects this season. 

[jagfox]

I can exclusively reveal we haven't been takeover yet...

[Third Lanark]

10 hours ago, Mr Bunny said:

Nobody has said the old board were amazing or that they'd want them back.  They've only cast doubts on the takeover - implicitly perhaps  criticising the new board as they are the ones driving it (or claiming to, it doesn't seem to be going anywhere atm).  The way it's been handled could certainly be argued to be damaging our team's prospects this season. 

Out of likes but spot on. 

[ClydebankJag]

From the Herald

 

ONE of the directors to survive last month’s boardroom cull at Partick Thistle has denied there is “anything sinister” about the club facilitating a takeover attempt by a Chinese-American consortium.

Malcolm Cannon says he understands supporters’ “angst and anxiety” regarding plans by the New City Capital group to purchase a majority shareholding in the Championship club.

But the Cricket Scotland chief executive, who only joined the Thistle board in April, believes a change of ownership would “give opportunities that wouldn’t otherwise exist”.

Cannon said: “The opportunities for the club with the consortium bid are huge. They shouldn’t be dismissed.

“If the bid succeeds I think it will give opportunities that wouldn’t otherwise exist. It gives the chance to work with other clubs with Barnsley and Nice also under this consortium’s ownership. That will help. It will also give the club a new release of energy.

“The consortium is still considering things. There’s no timescale on it. Inevitability something like this will cause supporters angst and anxiety. Change always does.

“From a football perspective I can’t offer any expertise but from a business perspective I know a bit about finances and running a business in terms of governance and process. I would say there is little to worry about from that side of things.”

Colin Weir, Thistle’s former benefactor, withdrew his financial backing recently due to “uncertainties about potential new ownership”.

Cannon said the club would now run on more prudent grounds but revealed the door would always be open for Weir to return.

He added: “You can’t run a business on benefactors. You can’t assume that gifts will continue to come in. The core business has to be sustainable and we now have a budget that reflects incomings and outgoing without Colin’s input.

“If Colin, at a later juncture, decided he wanted to partner up again that would be hugely welcomed. Hopefully the door is not completely locked to that in future. But at this moment in time we have to run a business that is sustainable with the income from gate receipts and other commercial streams.

“There is no debt in the organisation. We’ve got a budget for players that is acceptable. It’s not as good as some in the division but that is always going to be the case when you’re up against sides that have just been relegated.”

Cannon admits he is frustrated with the disconnect between some elements of the support and the board. He added: “It’s seen as the board versus the fans and I don’t get it.

“It’s almost assumed the board are trying to damage the club in some way. There’s an enmity there. But we are utterly committed to this. We do it as volunteers and are intent on doing what’s right for the club, for its sustainability.

“It may look wrong at times. And people may wish more cash was being injected into the club by wealthy individuals. That’s not me. But I’ll give my time, passion and energy, as will the rest of the board. We all care as much as any fan.

“So I don’t understand the feeling that there’s anything sinister being done by the board. We’re all on the same page. We just want to optimise the chance of those 11 guys in a Thistle shirt winning on a Saturday.

“The fans probably deserve better communication. That’s where we’ve maybe let ourselves down in the past. The best way forward is keeping everyone informed as much as possible.”

Cannon admits he was “surprised” to be kept on by new chairman David Beattie when Jacqui Low, Michael Robertson and Duncan Smillie were ousted last month.

“I take that as a compliment but also as a challenge as I’m effectively tarred with both brushes. I was a wee bit surprised to be asked to stay on but I don’t come with any baggage. I’m a Jags fan now but I don’t have an emotional attachment to how it was being run before. I can be objective going forward.

“The potential new owners might come in and want their own people and I totally get that. But if they asked me to stay on I would.”

 

https://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/17844153.partick-thistle-director-insists-nothing-sinister-potential-takeover/