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Message added by douglas clark

'Tis not the job of a moderator to stop people writing here. The rules are pretty simple:

reported ad hominem attacks will be investigated (and if found to be true) or write stuff that could get the site into trouble

and you'll either be warned / your post deleted, or - worst case scenario -  banned either temporarily or permanently.

This particular thread has had a vigorous exchange of views, and perhaps more heat than light. But the quality of the debate - it seems to me at least - is down to the lack of information.  That, in and of itself, means that whatever side you happen to be on is for a fan, very frustrating.

So, I have no intention of closing threads just because the quality of the postings isn't great. That is not the role of a moderator.

If you wake up the following morning you can always delete something you wish you'd never said.

 

 

 

 

 

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The whole finances thing would make more sense to me if we did make a whacking great loss last season:

Last season

- we had quite a large squad by 31st August if not the start of the season
- we had to pay off Archibald and Paterson or at least pay their contracts as well as Caldwell and Kerr
- quite a few of the duds we signed were let go early, presumably with a chunk of their wages for the rest of the season
- we signed half a new team in January
- Scott McDonald probably didn't come cheap (personally can't believe Coulibaly did either but that's just me)
- we only finished 6th in the league and a home game vs Celtic in the LC and Hearts on TV in the Scottish Cup will have brought in not much
-technically we did get a transfer fee for Erskine but assume this was buttons

However the JLow board have threatened legal action against anyone saying there was financial mismanagement and Michael Robertson seems adamant the club turned a profit (A)

This season

- much smaller squad as it stands
- no manager to pay off (yet)
- anywhere between £600k-700k from Fitzpatrick and Lindsay
-  On the flipside, reduced parachute payment
- Netting off visiting crowds from Falkirk & Ross County vs Dundee and Arbroath as probably small loss but not game changing

Yet before Saturday's win and the resultant visit to Parkhead we were projected to run at a massive loss which was only plugged by the revenue from the sales of AF & LL (B). 

If a player is on £50k a year then a £700k loss would be 14 players too many- I appreciate that's overly simplistic and clearly all the costs aren't on the playing side but that's miles out.

Statements (A) and (B) look incompatible- it would make far more sense that we ran at a loss last year and are cutting back this year but if A is true then B makes no sense.

 

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8 hours ago, Dark Passenger said:

This bit of Cannon's interview really irked me...

The fans own a 25% stake in Partick Thistle Football Club; we're entitled to ask questions. If he believes the board and fans are in conflict then so be it, but I think it's natural to be sceptical when you're lacking detail. Simply saying "the opportunities...are huge" doesn't really cut it with me. 

I think one of the issues is that its still to pass the SFA and until it does New Owners will be reticent to go Public with there Plans - however I agree we should have at least the level of detail shared with the Jags Trust 

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4 hours ago, sandy said:

Read Ancipitals post, it's obvious to see we lived beyond our means last season.

Ok so you said we overspent before that post  ......but you made that up as you don’t know and now Its based what some one else said subsequently ...no facts , no figures .....nada 

ancipitals post contains no facts either as his statements can’t be verified... they are conjecture

But  we two current directors saying there was no financial mismanagement and we have no debt and we have no debt for the obvious reason who will hold it ? Not the bank , not directors ....so who ? So explain yourself 

 

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10 hours ago, Ancipital said:

The whole finances thing would make more sense to me if we did make a whacking great loss last season:

Last season

- we had quite a large squad by 31st August if not the start of the season
- we had to pay off Archibald and Paterson or at least pay their contracts as well as Caldwell and Kerr
- quite a few of the duds we signed were let go early, presumably with a chunk of their wages for the rest of the season
- we signed half a new team in January
- Scott McDonald probably didn't come cheap (personally can't believe Coulibaly did either but that's just me)
- we only finished 6th in the league and a home game vs Celtic in the LC and Hearts on TV in the Scottish Cup will have brought in not much
-technically we did get a transfer fee for Erskine but assume this was buttons

However the JLow board have threatened legal action against anyone saying there was financial mismanagement and Michael Robertson seems adamant the club turned a profit (A)

This season

- much smaller squad as it stands
- no manager to pay off (yet)
- anywhere between £600k-700k from Fitzpatrick and Lindsay
-  On the flipside, reduced parachute payment
- Netting off visiting crowds from Falkirk & Ross County vs Dundee and Arbroath as probably small loss but not game changing

Yet before Saturday's win and the resultant visit to Parkhead we were projected to run at a massive loss which was only plugged by the revenue from the sales of AF & LL (B). 

If a player is on £50k a year then a £700k loss would be 14 players too many- I appreciate that's overly simplistic and clearly all the costs aren't on the playing side but that's miles out.

Statements (A) and (B) look incompatible- it would make far more sense that we ran at a loss last year and are cutting back this year but if A is true then B makes no sense.

 

Ok last season ....lets say we spent the parachute payment on all those things .....no debt 

ok ....this season ....less costs but less income sort of nets off....no debt 

Unless we see the accounts it’s all conjecture but let’s have some fun anyway ....

this season ...

income £2.2m

squad cost £1m

other costs £1m 

profit £200k

add in transfer fees, cup run etc 

no debt 

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44 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said:

The only way I can square the circle from all of the statements is that we used up some of our reserves last season (again conjecture). That is hardly financial mismanagement

And the guy who started that ball rolling was .....Beattie 

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54 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said:

The only way I can square the circle from all of the statements is that we used up some of our reserves last season (again conjecture). That is hardly financial mismanagement

Not mismanagement but given the vagaries of Football its not exactly reassuring as to who was making these decisions 

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1 hour ago, javeajag said:

Ok last season ....lets say we spent the parachute payment on all those things .....no debt 

ok ....this season ....less costs but less income sort of nets off....no debt 

Unless we see the accounts it’s all conjecture but let’s have some fun anyway ....

this season ...

income £2.2m

squad cost £1m

other costs £1m 

profit £200k

add in transfer fees, cup run etc 

no debt 

The average income in the Championship is £1.3 - £1.5MN previously 

Not sure where you get £2.2MN from - that was last Seasons Budget which included £850K Parachute & EUFA Money - we get £250K this Year Total 

 

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26 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

The average income in the Championship is £1.3 - £1.5MN previously 

Not sure where you get £2.2MN from - that was last Seasons Budget which included £850K Parachute & EUFA Money - we get £250K this Year Total 

 

Ah irony.... I was making the too subtle point that we don’t the accounts therefore any conjecture is allowed 

the key point is a current director has stated publicly that we have no debt .... not exactly financial mismanagement 

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53 minutes ago, javeajag said:

Ah irony.... I was making the too subtle point that we don’t the accounts therefore any conjecture is allowed 

the key point is a current director has stated publicly that we have no debt .... not exactly financial mismanagement 

No you made a statement describing how this Years Budget could stack up - you used an income figure from last Year that included £850K income via Parachute and EURO Money which we dont have this Year 

So what we have No Debt - what relevance is that if we dont have a Budget that keeps the Lights on  - and we still dont have an answer as to where the £300K Investment was coming from 

 David Kelly - a Chartered Accountant who oversaw the longest period of Financial Stability at the Club for decades stating we have a Budget Shortfall that the Transfer Money from Fitz and Liam is filling  - now I suggest you go challenge that statement - tell him how he cant count  - as Im certainly not about to 

He is a Chartered Accountant - we are in the midst of a takeover - do you really think he is going to risk his Professional Reputation ?  

 

   

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4 hours ago, Dick Dastardly said:

Except that according to JLow and Springford, we didn’t.

Springford didn't say that

He didn't say we didn't make a loss, he said he would not criticise the previous board for financial mismanagement and would not have released the statement worded in that way

 

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3 hours ago, Dick Dastardly said:

The only way I can square the circle from all of the statements is that we used up some of our reserves last season (again conjecture). That is hardly financial mismanagement

We had £550k cash reserves at the start of last season

Whether in last years accounts, or this years we don't have too much of a margin for error over the 12 months past and 12 months future; or we didn't at least prior to the player sales

 

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2 minutes ago, jaf said:

We had £550k cash reserves at the start of last season

Whether in last years accounts, or this years we don't have too much of a margin for error over the 12 months past and 12 months future; or we didn't at least prior to the player sales

 

I think that is what I am speculating. We used up some of our reserves last season to support an increased player budget. This season the new board want to replenish that and are taking the money out of the playing budget that GC thought he had.

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2 minutes ago, Jagsman said:

i wonder what will happen with the potential 150-200k from celtic game even at reduced attendence and prize money should be around that sort of figure to make

I predict that it won't be spent until it is in our piggy bank. It might get released to GC in January if he needs it, but I don't expect any additions to the squad this window. The potential sale appears to be all about saving where we can, so until that is completed/cancelled, don't expect any major spending.

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