New Owner

[Third Lanark]

5 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Ive seen various comments on Social Media - nothing official 

Is it just the SFA that have still to make a decision or is it the English FA as well Jim?

[Jordanhill Jag]

5 hours ago, Dick Dastardly said:

I agree with your first statement that the pool of fans with cash has gone. However I do not agree that non-fans with no investment wont work. There is no reason for it not to.

As for the benefactor, we will never agree that it is a bad thing. I'd hate to think where we would be ("find our level") had Colin Weir not being involved. Yes the benefactor can pull his funding at short notice, but providing the board, however it is made up, don't piss him/her off, and you do not rely on him for day-to-day running costs then any additional funding has to be a good thing. I will never ever forgive Beattie for whatever happened between him and Colin Weir

So define "piss him/her off" are we do walk on eggshells and watch what we say do in case it "upsets" the benefactor 

I have never at any point said  the Money was a Bad Thing - however I remain to be convinced that we needed it and would argue we lost our focus when we got it - both on the Park & off it - look at Livvy when they beat us - Lean Mean Hungry - that was us Pre Weir Money ?   

Also how do you know David Beattie was responsible it was clearly stated at the Q&A the frustration of not being able to speak direct to  Colin Weir to put forward plans - Im reading  that as there had been no direct discussions - how is that David Beatties fault ? How are you able to make the assumption he is at fault - if Colin Weir wanted all the info surely he should have been speaking to the Shareholders ?   

Edited August 22, 2019 by Jordanhill Jag

[Jordanhill Jag]

4 minutes ago, Third Lanark said:

Is it just the SFA that have still to make a decision or is it the English FA as well Jim?

Im sort of guessing given the level of joint ownership via various Clubs in England  that they are relaxed about  it 

The SFA are not what you would call up to speed on Globalisation 

 

[Jagsman]

see if colin weir doesnt come back sould the naming rights to stand and acadamy change due to him leaving when things going way he doesnt like, 

 

if he was a true fan he would have stucken it out and not gone home with his ball when went in huff about jlo, yes he helped us restructure debt but there are other ways of doing that without benefactors and previous to that we already had players come through acadamy banzo lindsay and hendry were all through before the thistle weir part came to fruition 1 person we have to thank for that is ian mccall as that was 1 thing he wanted set up.

about take over surely something happening if we are hearing nothing due to non disclosure etc and am sure rangers got knocked back in 90s for dual ownership with aek athens if am not wrong but sure now having maxwell in charge may help and more modernisation of the game as it happens in other countries so what if we get barnsley players they might end up being better than we could ever afford and might lead us to promotion or a cup.

 

rant over now hopefully someone can read because my grammer has always been shit

[jlsarmy]

4 hours ago, Jagsman said:

see if colin weir doesnt come back sould the naming rights to stand and acadamy change due to him leaving when things going way he doesnt like, 

 

if he was a true fan he would have stucken it out and not gone home with his ball when went in huff about jlo, yes he helped us restructure debt but there are other ways of doing that without benefactors and previous to that we already had players come through acadamy banzo lindsay and hendry were all through before the thistle weir part came to fruition 1 person we have to thank for that is ian mccall as that was 1 thing he wanted set up.

about take over surely something happening if we are hearing nothing due to non disclosure etc and am sure rangers got knocked back in 90s for dual ownership with aek athens if am not wrong but sure now having maxwell in charge may help and more modernisation of the game as it happens in other countries so what if we get barnsley players they might end up being better than we could ever afford and might lead us to promotion or a cup.

 

rant over now hopefully someone can read because my grammer has always been shit

Take this as a possible scenario, we’re struggling at the wrong end of the table , possibility of relegation, so the owner of both clubs Barnsley and PTFC decides to loan us some of Barnsley’s better players to make sure we stay up .

In terms of sporting integrity, that’s the main reason why it’s debatable whether this is going to be allowed, and as I said in a previous post it was vetoed between 2 UK clubs in Rangers and Newcastle.

[jlsarmy]

5 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Im sort of guessing given the level of joint ownership via various Clubs in England  that they are relaxed about  it 

The SFA are not what you would call up to speed on Globalisation 

 

JJ  , it only happens between teams in the UK and abroad  , the authorities haven’t let dual ownership happen between UK teams .

[allyo]

4 hours ago, Jagsman said:

see if colin weir doesnt come back sould the naming rights to stand and acadamy change due to him leaving when things going way he doesnt like, 

 

if he was a true fan he would have stucken it out and not gone home with his ball when went in huff about jlo, yes he helped us restructure debt but there are other ways of doing that without benefactors and previous to that we already had players come through acadamy banzo lindsay and hendry were all through before the thistle weir part came to fruition 1 person we have to thank for that is ian mccall as that was 1 thing he wanted set up.

about take over surely something happening if we are hearing nothing due to non disclosure etc and am sure rangers got knocked back in 90s for dual ownership with aek athens if am not wrong but sure now having maxwell in charge may help and more modernisation of the game as it happens in other countries so what if we get barnsley players they might end up being better than we could ever afford and might lead us to promotion or a cup.

 

rant over now hopefully someone can read because my grammer has always been shit

He's spent millions of pounds supporting the club but if he was a true fan he'd keep spending millions, regardless of the direction of the club and the doubts surrounding it's ownership? In his position, from what we know, I'd have walked away in a heartbeat. I think you have a high bar for what makes someone a true fan.

[Lenziejag]

7 hours ago, jlsarmy said:

Take this as a possible scenario, we’re struggling at the wrong end of the table , possibility of relegation, so the owner of both clubs Barnsley and PTFC decides to loan us some of Barnsley’s better players to make sure we stay up .

In terms of sporting integrity, that’s the main reason why it’s debatable whether this is going to be allowed, and as I said in a previous post it was vetoed between 2 UK clubs in Rangers and Newcastle.

Are you allowed to get players on loan out with the transfer windows ?

 

[Lenziejag]

7 hours ago, allyo said:

He's spent millions of pounds supporting the club but if he was a true fan he'd keep spending millions, regardless of the direction of the club and the doubts surrounding it's ownership? In his position, from what we know, I'd have walked away in a heartbeat. I think you have a high bar for what makes someone a true fan.

I was speaking to one of the clubs sponsors the other day and asked him if he had heard anything about what was going on ? He hasn’t so I asked him if it made him feel like withdrawing his sponsorship. No he said as he is a supporter. 

[jlsarmy]

2 hours ago, Lenziejag said:

Are you allowed to get players on loan out with the transfer windows ?

 

Don’t think so apart from emergency loans 

[javeajag]

1 hour ago, Lenziejag said:

I was speaking to one of the clubs sponsors the other day and asked him if he had heard anything about what was going on ? He hasn’t so I asked him if it made him feel like withdrawing his sponsorship. No he said as he is a supporter. 

We don’t know what discussions did or did not take place between the selling shareholders and Colin Weir if any ....the implication was he’s hard to get hold of and are not sure if we have his email........and I think he is a bit more than a sponsor as he was going to build a £7m academy !

it seems at any rate that they did not speak to him till after ditching the board in a legal but fairly brutal way 

now Weir has funded the Academy till the end of this season so he hasn’t just cut off all funding which gives time to work out alternatives and it was always the plan for the academy to be self funding as he was never going to support it  indefinitely .....as far as I know that’s all he’s done 

how many fans in here have this summer said  : not renewing my season ticket, I’ve cancelled jagzone etc quite a few still fans ?

but we don’t need weir .....were selling to billionaires 

[jagfox]

2 hours ago, Lenziejag said:

Are you allowed to get players on loan out with the transfer windows ?

 

Only keepers in an emergency.

[Woodstock Jag]

19 minutes ago, javeajag said:

but we don’t need weir .....were selling to billionaires 

Say what you like about billionaires but they don’t get rich by giving away their money.

They do it if there’s something clear and tangible and quantifiable in it for them.

[Emsca]

15 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

So define "piss him/her off" are we do walk on eggshells and watch what we say do in case it "upsets" the benefactor 

I have never at any point said  the Money was a Bad Thing - however I remain to be convinced that we needed it and would argue we lost our focus when we got it - both on the Park & off it - look at Livvy when they beat us - Lean Mean Hungry - that was us Pre Weir Money ?   

Also how do you know David Beattie was responsible it was clearly stated at the Q&A the frustration of not being able to speak direct to  Colin Weir to put forward plans - Im reading  that as there had been no direct discussions - how is that David Beatties fault ? How are you able to make the assumption he is at fault - if Colin Weir wanted all the info surely he should have been speaking to the Shareholders ?   

More nonsense.

If someone offered  Man City £3 million , no strings attached, they would say Thanks. As would any club, person, company, charity , society etc etc. They don't need it, but it makes commercial sense to take it.

But not you?- No, you would be concerned that the money would make you lazy and dependent. 

By your reckoning, the players should be playing in their bare feet ( don't wear boots in case you lose them / cant afford them); taking cold showers ( don't want to get used to hot showers in case the heating breaks down).

Get real.

 

,

[sandy]

On 8/20/2019 at 11:56 AM, Dick Dastardly said:

I think that is what I am speculating. We used up some of our reserves last season to support an increased player budget. This season the new board want to replenish that and are taking the money out of the playing budget that GC thought he had.

Yup

[Juanito]

10 hours ago, jlsarmy said:

Take this as a possible scenario, we’re struggling at the wrong end of the table , possibility of relegation, so the owner of both clubs Barnsley and PTFC decides to loan us some of Barnsley’s better players to make sure we stay up .

In terms of sporting integrity, that’s the main reason why it’s debatable whether this is going to be allowed, and as I said in a previous post it was vetoed between 2 UK clubs in Rangers and Newcastle.

Is it not a rule that you are only allowed to loan two players from one club at a time?? with a limit on the number of loan players that a club can have over the age of 21.

I am sure if you are clever you could get around the rules but also players are only allowed to play for a certain number of clubs in a season so we would have to know by at least the winter transfer window that players were required, so not really any different to last season when we used our parachute payment to outspend other clubs (Alloa, QOS) which eventually led to us staying up, just.

 

[javeajag]

11 minutes ago, sandy said:

Yup

If David Beattie had cutback on costs when we got relegated instead of keeping an premiership infrastructure with championship income there is a reasonable chance we would be in a better financial place now 

[javeajag]

50 minutes ago, Woodstock Jag said:

Say what you like about billionaires but they don’t get rich by giving away their money.

They do it if there’s something clear and tangible and quantifiable in it for them.

Not always .....the history of wealthy people in football tells you they can be as daft as the rest of us !

but yes  I don’t expect these guys to build an  academy or invest that much in our infrastructure there is no return for them in that  

[Semi Nurainen]

21 hours ago, Dick Dastardly said:

I agree with your first statement that the pool of fans with cash has gone. However I do not agree that non-fans with no investment wont work. There is no reason for it not to.

As for the benefactor, we will never agree that it is a bad thing. I'd hate to think where we would be ("find our level") had Colin Weir not being involved. Yes the benefactor can pull his funding at short notice, but providing the board, however it is made up, don't piss him/her off, and you do not rely on him for day-to-day running costs then any additional funding has to be a good thing. I will never ever forgive Beattie for whatever happened between him and Colin Weir

My understanding, based on what was stated clearly at the public meeting, was that - like Sherlock Holmes's curious incident of the dog in the night - nothing happened! That was the problem.

You can probably put your 'forgiveness box' away now.

[jlsarmy]

20 minutes ago, Juanito said:

Is it not a rule that you are only allowed to loan two players from one club at a time?? with a limit on the number of loan players that a club can have over the age of 21.

I am sure if you are clever you could get around the rules but also players are only allowed to play for a certain number of clubs in a season so we would have to know by at least the winter transfer window that players were required, so not really any different to last season when we used our parachute payment to outspend other clubs (Alloa, QOS) which eventually led to us staying up, just.

 

Not sure about that , think Newcastle gave Rangers 5 Newcastle loanees at the one time 

[Dark Passenger]

34 minutes ago, Juanito said:

Is it not a rule that you are only allowed to loan two players from one club at a time?? with a limit on the number of loan players that a club can have over the age of 21.

There is no limit on the number of players a Scottish club can take on loan from a single English side.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

8 minutes ago, Dark Passenger said:

There is no limit on the number of players a Scottish club can take on loan from a single English side.

And I think there lies the problem. Change that ruling to say 0-3 players a pop and the threat of dual ownership becomes less of a worry.

Of course Club A could just sell a batch of players (for any sum) to Club B on six monthly/yearly contracts and buy them back. Inducements to said players (eg some incremental wage structure) would lessen the likelihood of a third party club poaching players after their stint at Club B.

[sandy]

1 hour ago, javeajag said:

If David Beattie had cutback on costs when we got relegated instead of keeping an premiership infrastructure with championship income there is a reasonable chance we would be in a better financial place now 

Have you got the facts & figures to support that assertion? Key players like Dools & Erskine agreed pay cuts remember; that wasn’t a premiership infrastructure, the Board trimmed our costs. 

[Dick Dastardly]

What would happen if Barnsley were to suffer a few relegations and then drew us in the Tunnocks Caramel Wafer Cup ? Or if we both made it into the Europa League/Champion's League and were drawn together

[Dick Dastardly]

17 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

So define "piss him/her off" are we do walk on eggshells and watch what we say do in case it "upsets" the benefactor 

I have never at any point said  the Money was a Bad Thing - however I remain to be convinced that we needed it and would argue we lost our focus when we got it - both on the Park & off it - look at Livvy when they beat us - Lean Mean Hungry - that was us Pre Weir Money ?   

Also how do you know David Beattie was responsible it was clearly stated at the Q&A the frustration of not being able to speak direct to  Colin Weir to put forward plans - Im reading  that as there had been no direct discussions - how is that David Beatties fault ? How are you able to make the assumption he is at fault - if Colin Weir wanted all the info surely he should have been speaking to the Shareholders ?   

Unceremoniously removing his representative from the board would probably piss off most people

I don't know what happened between Colin Weir and the board, or what was said when whatever happened. I also don't know who from the board had the responsibility to do/say anything with Colin Weir. Whatever the case, it was clearly insufficient to keep him engaged, even if only as a stop gap until more was known about the take over. I find it incredulous to thing that the club had no means to get in contact with Colin Weir, even indirectly, for urgent discussions.

Whoever was directly responsible, David Beatie is the chairman and figure head and is therefore culpable, in my opinion, for losing our benefactor.

 

Can I ask why you think that we are in a better situation now than when JLow was in control ? The way I see it is

We have a board who don't appear to want to be in control long term. We have a possible takeover that we know very little of their plans and in any case is only 50-50 to go through. We have burned our bridges with a major source of ad-hoc funding that threatens the future of our academy and we have a squad which by the manager's own admission is incomplete.

If this sale doesn't go through, the situation is completely untenable. If it does, who knows what will happen