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By Jag
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douglas clark
Message added by douglas clark

'Tis not the job of a moderator to stop people writing here. The rules are pretty simple:

reported ad hominem attacks will be investigated (and if found to be true) or write stuff that could get the site into trouble

and you'll either be warned / your post deleted, or - worst case scenario -  banned either temporarily or permanently.

This particular thread has had a vigorous exchange of views, and perhaps more heat than light. But the quality of the debate - it seems to me at least - is down to the lack of information.  That, in and of itself, means that whatever side you happen to be on is for a fan, very frustrating.

So, I have no intention of closing threads just because the quality of the postings isn't great. That is not the role of a moderator.

If you wake up the following morning you can always delete something you wish you'd never said.

 

 

 

 

 

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Lenziejag Jags fan

Lenziejag

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, scotty said:

Again, the governence set-up which has still to be issued in detail should allow for members to have a say. If not then it's not a fan owned club. I've not seen anyone claim that Co;in Weir will fund this to an extent that no other fans will put money into it.

That isn’t exactly what I said. The initial premise of tfe was to get enough pledges from fans to be able to make a bid for the shares. With Colin Weir funding the takeover there is no need for the fans to make a pledge. Should tfe not let us know how the governance will work before we make a choice of which bid is best ?

it is a bit like Brexit. We are going to jump but we have no idea where we will land

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javeajag Jags fan

javeajag

Posted
Posted
25 minutes ago, Fawlty Towers said:

Can I just make one point which is not specific to either bid.

Lets us not go down the road of people having agendas or smearing others. Jordanhill Jag is a long standing fan. Paul Goodwin is a fan. The other guys involved with TfE are fans. We are on here because we are fans.

Let us debate (robustly probably) both bids and the merits/negatives of these. Play the ball not the man!

Quite hard to have a debate when one side refuses to meet with supporters and has given us precisely zero information 

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javeajag Jags fan

javeajag

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Lenziejag said:

That isn’t exactly what I said. The initial premise of tfe was to get enough pledges from fans to be able to make a bid for the shares. With Colin Weir funding the takeover there is no need for the fans to make a pledge. Should tfe not let us know how the governance will work before we make a choice of which bid is best ?

it is a bit like Brexit. We are going to jump but we have no idea where we will land

Yes they should 

now questions for the consortium ?

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Emsca Jags fan

Emsca

Posted
Posted
15 hours ago, Big Col said:

As far as I’m aware, fan ownership just means that you are contributing financially to the purchase of the shares. You don’t actually get a say in the running of the club - that’s what the directors do on behalf of the shareholders. 

Which is just as well, considering the broad range of opinions among the support!

Yes but if the fans are the shareholders, they can appoint and sack directors who must be accountable to the shareholders (fans)).

Surely a better position than the shares being held by a Company whose motives are unclear and may or may not be aligned to that of their customers ( fans)?

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Jordanhill Jag Jags fan

Jordanhill Jag

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, javeajag said:

You have an agenda jj let’s be honest 

My Agenda is what I believe to be the right Direction for the Club - others view of thar may differ 

But given the slating of David Beattie - since his return we have moved forward  and he has taken the correct decisions - The AGM will obviously give more information for whats going on - its an Open Forum not a wee group 

So - as Ive stated - still not recieved a Yes /No Response to my Question ref Contact with Previous Directors by TFE or anyone associated with Them 

They are putting themselves up as the Voice of the Fans - Based on What ? 

We have No idea of the level of there support to there proposal as we dont know how much was pledged by ordinary Fans

Who will run the Club in the interim from there takeover to Elections - TFE ?

Who decides on the format of Elections - TFE ? 

These are legitimate Questions - so if they are as Open as you suggest - they can answer them ?    

Im assuning this is all though out in there 5 Year Plan and Colin Weir had in depth discussions and meetings with them before he agreed the Funding Package - after all its the Future of the Club   

 

  

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Emsca Jags fan

Emsca

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, javeajag said:

One point that I would appreciate someone clearing up is that our Board need to certify that Chien Lee and Paul Conway are in their view fit and proper persons to own the club , how do they do that if they have done no due diligence on them ?

I think it has already been shown to be a non -test. When they say a fit and proper person , they mean have they got proof of identity and can they tie their shoelaces.

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Dick Dastardly Jags fan

Dick Dastardly

Posted
Posted
56 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

My Agenda is what I believe to be the right Direction for the Club - others view of thar may differ 

But given the slating of David Beattie - since his return we have moved forward  and he has taken the correct decisions - The AGM will obviously give more information for whats going on - its an Open Forum not a wee group 

So - as Ive stated - still not recieved a Yes /No Response to my Question ref Contact with Previous Directors by TFE or anyone associated with Them 

They are putting themselves up as the Voice of the Fans - Based on What ? 

We have No idea of the level of there support to there proposal as we dont know how much was pledged by ordinary Fans

Who will run the Club in the interim from there takeover to Elections - TFE ?

Who decides on the format of Elections - TFE ? 

These are legitimate Questions - so if they are as Open as you suggest - they can answer them ?    

Im assuning this is all though out in there 5 Year Plan and Colin Weir had in depth discussions and meetings with them before he agreed the Funding Package - after all its the Future of the Club   

 

  

I don't want to call on the Supreme Court again, they have been a bit busy this week, but you are asking a lot of us to believe that you don't have an agenda. Reading your posts you would think the sun shines out of David Beatties arse and any alternatives are the devil incarnate

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Jordanhill Jag Jags fan

Jordanhill Jag

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, javeajag said:

Why not be a positive person and tell us all the good things about the consortium and their plans ?

Im not promoting the Consortium - Im taking David Beattie and the Shareholders at there Word that its positive for the Club - Ive looked at there  approach at other Clubs and think its a good approach 

But we have zero to measure TFE against - so tell us why its such a Great Thing - Tell us why this Group of People are Right and the former Directors / Shareholders are wrong ?   

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Jordanhill Jag Jags fan

Jordanhill Jag

Posted
Posted
52 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said:

I don't want to call on the Supreme Court again, they have been a bit busy this week, but you are asking a lot of us to believe that you don't have an agenda. Reading your posts you would think the sun shines out of David Beatties arse and any alternatives are the devil incarnate

David Beattie has a Track record at Thistle - Ive not stated anything about the Alternaives - Ive asked Questions - So far No responses ? 

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Dick Dastardly Jags fan

Dick Dastardly

Posted
Posted

For my money, we have zero control over the future of our club if the consortium take over.

With the right governance in place (and that is a big caveat) the directors will be answerable to fans in some form.

There is little info from either side to judge future plans. I just don't like handing everything over to people we don't know and had never heard of Partick Thistle until 6 months ago.

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Lenziejag Jags fan

Lenziejag

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, javeajag said:

Why not just say I don’t want the fans to own the club and prefer the consortium......first it was we won’t gave the finance , now its the governance .....of course there is a lot of detail to work out but at this stage we are being asked to decide on two high level approaches ....so why not outline how the consortium will work ?

At no point have I said I would prefer the consortium. Over the last few months holes have been picked in any announcement that has been given by the old boards. My concern is that just because tfe and Colin Weir are Thistle people that they will manage the club better than an outsider.

If tfe had learned anything about the Thistle support over the summer it would have been any announcement should be full and transparent.

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Lenziejag Jags fan

Lenziejag

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, sandy said:

Agree Junior. Maybe there is an argument for some continuity from existing Board into any new Board structure created by fan ownership.

Personally, I don’t see why Beattie should not continue.

If he is interested that would be a good idea. However, surely he would need to retain some shares in order to have a financial stake in the clubs performance 

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Jordanhill Jag Jags fan

Jordanhill Jag

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Firhillista said:

I genuinely don't understand your objections to Colin Weir's involvement with the club. You've made it clear on numerous occasions that you don't think his involvement is in the club's best interest, usually, if I'm correct, because you don't think a 'sugar daddy' approach is sustainable long term. Yet there's no doubt his money has made a significantly positive contribution to the club.

What's proposed, as I understand it, is that the club be run along similar lines to what's currently the case, only that the majority shareholders would be the fan consortium.  Colin Weir's involvement would be limited to what's been in place over recent years. Is that not in the best interest of Partick Thistle? 

Ok its simple - Money welds Power - now that just a fact - however with Power comes responsibility and accountability 

To simply hand over cash to others amd let them do as they please is not something I think is a Good Thing 

If Mr Weir wants to buy the Club Appiont a Board and take ultimate responsibility - Im ok with that - Im not OK  with creating a  scenario where the Money effects change but thats the end to it - if it goes pear shaped the person who affected the change has to be accountable - the Road to Ruin is paved with Good Intentions - so if your not willing to take responsibilty - then dont effect change  

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Dick Dastardly Jags fan

Dick Dastardly

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Ok its simple - Money welds Power - now that just a fact - however with Power comes responsibility and accountability 

To simply hand over cash to others amd let them do as they please is not something I think is a Good Thing 

If Mr Weir wants to buy the Club Appiont a Board and take ultimate responsibility - Im ok with that - Im not OK  with creating a  scenario where the Money effects change but thats the end to it - if it goes pear shaped the person who affected the change has to be accountable - the Road to Ruin is paved with Good Intentions - so if your not willing to take responsibilty - then dont effect change  

But is that not exactly what we would be letting the consortium do. This is my issue with it. We would have lost all control and there is no possible governance of their actions once they take over. They will have full and unilateral control

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