New Owner

[madcapmilkdrinker]

21 minutes ago, delurker said:

We do have an idea; Nice fans organised a season ticket boycott in protest at them and how they were running the club.

This runs completely contrary to the detailed vision about the future they've outlined to Thistle supporters though. Cough. 

(waits for JJ to tell me that TFE haven't responded to an insanely convolUted question about whether one of them glaNced at Colin Weir in the street as he walked past them with the oDd capital thrown in for no good reason) 

[javeajag]

4 minutes ago, madcapmilkdrinker said:

This runs completely contrary to the detailed vision about the future they've outlined to Thistle supporters though. Cough. 

(waits for JJ to tell me that TFE haven't responded to an insanely convolUted question about whether one of them glaNced at Colin Weir in the street as he walked past them with the oDd capital thrown in for no good reason) 

I think it would be helpful if jj or someone in the know could now clarify which entity wants to buy us and who is involved 

[madcapmilkdrinker]

Why are actual, real life Thistle fans being held to a far higher standard of expected communication, governance and vision than  some bunch of secretive, shambolic venture capitalists? Seems weird to me but maybe some supporters have their nose out of joint that they weren't ballsy enough to devote the time and energy to this that TFE have already demonstrated their capacity for. I've pledged my ongoing support to them from across land and sea.

Another voice for fan ownership JJ. A few more and you won't be able to say there isn't a groundswell. 

[blakey]

1 hour ago, bell said:

The guy behind the TFE group was previously behind a shambolic takeover at  Stirling Albion, runs a group which claims to speak for all fans in Scotland and has had no apparent connection with Thistle until this opportunity came about. To me that suggests TFE is more to do with the ego of a wannabe than anything. At least if a consortium of billionaires wants to buy a 'fixer-upper' and sell it at a profit later, the club will then be improved in some ways. Letting people with either poor or no records of running a club take over will most likely see us becoming part time at best.

I don't really know Paul at all, but I am friendly with his cousin. They are both Thistle fans so I can vouch for him in that regard. I think he used to run some advertising company called Blue Star (or similar) who used to do a lot of advertising at PTFC. It can't have been that good if I can't remember it :-) But...he's not on an ego trip. He does have experience of setting up fan ownership at other clubs. And he is definitely a thistle fan. He has invested money via advertising with the club also.

I'm not saying that makes him a perfect fit, but it's a pretty good start.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

1 hour ago, bell said:

The guy behind the TFE group was previously behind a shambolic takeover at  Stirling Albion, runs a group which claims to speak for all fans in Scotland and has had no apparent connection with Thistle until this opportunity came about. To me that suggests TFE is more to do with the ego of a wannabe than anything. At least if a consortium of billionaires wants to buy a 'fixer-upper' and sell it at a profit later, the club will then be improved in some ways. Letting people with either poor or no records of running a club take over will most likely see us becoming part time at best.

For all I know the Paul Goodwin fella may not be the Jags fan that he claims to be. He may be on an ego trip for all I care. The Binos takeover might well have been shambolic, tho' they're still in business and were I believe in serious trouble beforehand. Besides Goodwin may well have learned valuable lessons from that venture, which can only help re guidance for subsequent fan takeovers. I don't know him and I've no opinion either way about the man.

On the other hand I do know Allan Heron. I do know he's been a Jags  fan for decades. Above all I know he's very approachable and is in attendance at most (if not all) home games. 

One thing we don't know for absolute certainty is if Beattie & Co have retaken control to ONLY see thru the sale of the Club. Most of us I imagine believe that's the principal reason for their return. Is it a case in their minds they have to sell the Club? 

[ARu-Strathbungo]

43 minutes ago, blakey said:

I don't really know Paul at all, but I am friendly with his cousin. They are both Thistle fans so I can vouch for him in that regard. I think he used to run some advertising company called Blue Star (or similar) who used to do a lot of advertising at PTFC. It can't have been that good if I can't remember it :-) But...he's not on an ego trip. He does have experience of setting up fan ownership at other clubs. And he is definitely a thistle fan. He has invested money via advertising with the club also.

I'm not saying that makes him a perfect fit, but it's a pretty good start.

Personal recommendations are worth more than any CV [IMO] So what you have said here, puts TfE above NCC in my list of ownership candidates.

It is my feeling that if the PTFC board can do all the check and balances on TfE and keep David Beattie as chair for at least to the end of the current season,  the offer of CW's money to finance a competent fan based ownership arrangement is something the majority of the fans would support.

My first group of concerns is with CW. and his level of participation …. and are simply:-

1) the J.Low [or a n other] placement

2) enthusiastic patrons can eventually walk away if the interest fades

Ok ….. It has been stated, CW will back TfE with 'no conditions', so therefore my concerns listed above are invalid?

Assuming TfE became the 'preferred bidder', my second group of concerns are then:-

3) Has the structure of and the motives of TfE been subject to the 'due diligence' [checks and balances etc etc] required? As I said above, if the board don't do this, the existing fan associations would not support the bid.

 …. assuming TfE were successful in their bid

4) Will the fan ownership patrons [the ones that have made the statement to come onboard with TfE] generate enough money to run the club and finance a series of improvements? 

Particular concern to me, we appear to have:-

(i) a dwindling fan base … therfore how many 'patrons' can TfE enlist to finance the club on a day to day basis

(ii) we have a group of players that the new manager may want to change out, come the January window

(iii) a stadium that eventually will need a serious investment to keep it fit for purpose

Hopefully all, or most, of the above will be discussed at the AGM.

 

Edited September 26, 2019 by ARu-Strathbungo
punctuation .... again

[delurker]

1 hour ago, blakey said:

I don't really know Paul at all, but I am friendly with his cousin. They are both Thistle fans so I can vouch for him in that regard. I think he used to run some advertising company called Blue Star (or similar) who used to do a lot of advertising at PTFC. It can't have been that good if I can't remember it :-) But...he's not on an ego trip. He does have experience of setting up fan ownership at other clubs. And he is definitely a thistle fan. He has invested money via advertising with the club also.

I'm not saying that makes him a perfect fit, but it's a pretty good start.

I remember Big Blue Star, and their adverts at Thistle.

[delurker]

1 hour ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

For all I know the Paul Goodwin fella may not be the Jags fan that he claims to be. He may be on an ego trip for all I care. The Binos takeover might well have been shambolic, tho' they're still in business and were I believe in serious trouble beforehand. Besides Goodwin may well have learned valuable lessons from that venture, which can only help re guidance for subsequent fan takeovers. I don't know him and I've no opinion either way about the man.

On the other hand I do know Allan Heron. I do know he's been a Jags  fan for decades. Above all I know he's very approachable and is in attendance at most (if not all) home games. 

One thing we don't know for absolute certainty is if Beattie & Co have retaken control to ONLY see thru the sale of the Club. Most of us I imagine believe that's the principal reason for their return. Is it a case in their minds they have to sell the Club? 

Re. your last point, we do know this; they said as much at the open day board Q&A session.

They were asked about the mention in Beattie's and the Jags Trust's statements of concern at the previous board's running of the club.

They said they would not have put that out if they had been consulted and the reason for their takeover was implementing the sale to the consortium.

[Semi Nurainen]

1 hour ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

For all I know the Paul Goodwin fella may not be the Jags fan that he claims to be. He may be on an ego trip for all I care. The Binos takeover might well have been shambolic, tho' they're still in business and were I believe in serious trouble beforehand. Besides Goodwin may well have learned valuable lessons from that venture, which can only help re guidance for subsequent fan takeovers. I don't know him and I've no opinion either way about the man.

On the other hand I do know Allan Heron. I do know he's been a Jags  fan for decades. Above all I know he's very approachable and is in attendance at most (if not all) home games. 

One thing we don't know for absolute certainty is if Beattie & Co have retaken control to ONLY see thru the sale of the Club. Most of us I imagine believe that's the principal reason for their return. Is it a case in their minds they have to sell the Club? 

Interesting, and characteristically thoughtful and thought-provoking comments, especially the bit about Beattie. That is how he has been portrayed by the TfE faction, but he/they has gone through rather a lot of trouble - retaking control from the old board, clearing out the deadwood both on the board and in the manager's suite, and bringing back not one but two club legends to stabilise things on the park - simply to flog his shares.

If the TfE group were to make a case to Beattie & Co for a buyout, offering the same face value for the shares as the Consortium, it would be interesting to see which option he would choose.

[javeajag]

28 minutes ago, Semi Nurainen said:

Interesting, and characteristically thoughtful and thought-provoking comments, especially the bit about Beattie. That is how he has been portrayed by the TfE faction, but he/they has gone through rather a lot of trouble - retaking control from the old board, clearing out the deadwood both on the board and in the manager's suite, and bringing back not one but two club legends to stabilise things on the park - simply to flog his shares.

If the TfE group were to make a case to Beattie & Co for a buyout, offering the same face value for the shares as the Consortium, it would be interesting to see which option he would choose.

It would be even more interesting if they offered more but then it’s not about the money right ?

[Lenziejag]

3 hours ago, madcapmilkdrinker said:

Why are actual, real life Thistle fans being held to a far higher standard of expected communication, governance and vision than  some bunch of secretive, shambolic venture capitalists? Seems weird to me but maybe some supporters have their nose out of joint that they weren't ballsy enough to devote the time and energy to this that TFE have already demonstrated their capacity for. I've pledged my ongoing support to them from across land and sea.

Another voice for fan ownership JJ. A few more and you won't be able to say there isn't a groundswell. 

I don’t think that is it. Certainly, from my point of view,a word of caution is required. It seemed to me that some people were immediately in favour just because it was a fans group. My perception is that when the rumours started about New City Capital that there was immediate scepticism.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

1 hour ago, delurker said:

Re. your last point, we do know this; they said as much at the open day board Q&A session.

They were asked about the mention in Beattie's and the Jags Trust's statements of concern at the previous board's running of the club.

They said they would not have put that out if they had been consulted and the reason for their takeover was implementing the sale to the consortium.

I was in attendance that day and interpreted it slightly differently. I was maybe just reading between the lines as it's true none of the directors were openly critical of the was the Club was being run.

If it is 100% the only reason they regained control then it's got to be assumed that the current board would've stayed out of things had no bid been in place. That implies that Jacqui Low would still have been in the chair and her cohorts still on the board. David Beattie has on numerous occasions since he returned stated that any actions he takes are for the good of the Club. Can you then take from that leaving Jacqui Low and her board to carry on running the Club would've been for the best?

[delurker]

18 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

I was in attendance that day and interpreted it slightly differently. I was maybe just reading between the lines as it's true none of the directors were openly critical of the was the Club was being run.

If it is 100% the only reason they regained control then it's got to be assumed that the current board would've stayed out of things had no bid been in place. That implies that Jacqui Low would still have been in the chair and her cohorts still on the board. David Beattie has on numerous occasions since he returned stated that any actions he takes are for the good of the Club. Can you then take from that leaving Jacqui Low and her board to carry on running the Club would've been for the best?

I think you're right to read between the lines, there's definitely a gap between DB's mentions of concern at how things were being run, and the assurances at the Q&A that it's just about the bid.

[Semi Nurainen]

27 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

I was in attendance that day and interpreted it slightly differently. I was maybe just reading between the lines as it's true none of the directors were openly critical of the was the Club was being run.

If it is 100% the only reason they regained control then it's got to be assumed that the current board would've stayed out of things had no bid been in place. That implies that Jacqui Low would still have been in the chair and her cohorts still on the board. David Beattie has on numerous occasions since he returned stated that any actions he takes are for the good of the Club. Can you then take from that leaving Jacqui Low and her board to carry on running the Club would've been for the best?

In a word, no.

[West of Scotland]

All excellent points ARu-Strathbungo, except that Firhill won't "eventually" need serious investment, it needed serious investment ten years ago at the very least.

[javeajag]

4 months and 157 pages in and we don’t know the entity that our shareholders are selling to , who the individuals are that are buying our club  , why they want to buy the club and what their plans are....but hey ho let’s go along with it .....eh no 

[Norgethistle]

On 9/25/2019 at 11:10 AM, delurker said:

TfE have communicated openly and non-stop with the fans, publishing info and answering questions directly via all channels open to them.

Contrast with the consortium, who have not only not given any information but, as PTFC Trust statements have made clear, have actively refused requests from our board to meet the fan trusts.

No they have not, they have answered easy sound bites with no real substance. Their website alone is in breach of data protection (GDPR) so is completely set up on plans drawn on back of a fag packet, they won’t answer clearly the following from various people on various media.

 

- How many people have actually signed up (Remember Paul stated when involved at Stirling 50000 “Fifty Thousand” had signed up)

- How will the first board be chosen prior to any election 

- Will Jackie Low be involved

- When did Colin Weir actually get involved as he is on record stating Weir was not involved 

- How will voting actually work (He stated hopefully 1 member 1 vote,  but not decided)

- Is Weirs money a pure donation or merely capital to be paid back (Motherwell, St Mirren method)

- As stated in press release “Colin Weir will play no part in the running of the club AFTER the takeover is complete” is that after the fans pay him back if the above point is same as Motherwell/ St Mirren model

- Will The democratically elected board be running the club unfettered from any major donor or their associates

- How will the required skills be brought to the board if (as rumored) anyone can stand

- Can he deny the (strong) rumors from Stirling fans that he’s placing himself on the board

 

 

 

[javeajag]

4 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

No they have not, they have answered easy sound bites with no real substance. Their website alone is in breach of data protection (GDPR) so is completely set up on plans drawn on back of a fag packet, they won’t answer clearly the following from various people on various media.

 

- How many people have actually signed up (Remember Paul stated when involved at Stirling 50000 “Fifty Thousand” had signed up)

- How will the first board be chosen prior to any election 

- Will Jackie Low be involved

- When did Colin Weir actually get involved as he is on record stating Weir was not involved 

- How will voting actually work (He stated hopefully 1 member 1 vote,  but not decided)

- Is Weirs money a pure donation or merely capital to be paid back (Motherwell, St Mirren method)

- As stated in press release “Colin Weir will play no part in the running of the club AFTER the takeover is complete” is that after the fans pay him back if the above point is same as Motherwell/ St Mirren model

- Will The democratically elected board be running the club unfettered from any major donor or their associates

- How will the required skills be brought to the board if (as rumored) anyone can stand

- Can he deny the (strong) rumors from Stirling fans that he’s placing himself on the board

 

 

 

Mostly valid questions which of course need to be fleshed out but luckily our venture capitalists have provided detailed answers to all the questions you have asked them ..,,

[Fawlty Towers]

4 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

No they have not, they have answered easy sound bites with no real substance. Their website alone is in breach of data protection (GDPR) so is completely set up on plans drawn on back of a fag packet, they won’t answer clearly the following from various people on various media.

 

- How many people have actually signed up (Remember Paul stated when involved at Stirling 50000 “Fifty Thousand” had signed up)

- How will the first board be chosen prior to any election 

- Will Jackie Low be involved

- When did Colin Weir actually get involved as he is on record stating Weir was not involved 

- How will voting actually work (He stated hopefully 1 member 1 vote,  but not decided)

- Is Weirs money a pure donation or merely capital to be paid back (Motherwell, St Mirren method)

- As stated in press release “Colin Weir will play no part in the running of the club AFTER the takeover is complete” is that after the fans pay him back if the above point is same as Motherwell/ St Mirren model

- Will The democratically elected board be running the club unfettered from any major donor or their associates

- How will the required skills be brought to the board if (as rumored) anyone can stand

- Can he deny the (strong) rumors from Stirling fans that he’s placing himself on the board

 

 

 

Stuart when you asked these questions on twitter you were told that TfE were drawing up a Q&A to put out in a few days so lets wait to see that.

I can tell you though because I asked, that Colin Weir does not want the money paid back.

[Norgethistle]

6 minutes ago, Fawlty Towers said:

Stuart when you asked these questions on twitter you were told that TfE were drawing up a Q&A to put out in a few days so lets wait to see that.

I can tell you though because I asked, that Colin Weir does not want the money paid back.

Some of these questions were asked by others a while a go, but a lot of these could be answered straight away, the GDPR answer was alarming 

[sandy]

19 minutes ago, javeajag said:

Mostly valid questions which of course need to be fleshed out but luckily our venture capitalists have provided detailed answers to all the questions you have asked them ..,,

Javeajag, it’s good you now recognise that neither side has provided sufficient information yet.

[Fawlty Towers]

2 minutes ago, sandy said:

Javeajag, it’s good you now recognise that neither side has provided sufficient information yet.

Sandy would you recognise that one side is at least trying to provide information?

[sandy]

Just now, Fawlty Towers said:

Sandy would you recognise that one side is at least trying to provide information?

One side is maybe trying, but there are delays & gaps. Maybe I’m wrong, but intuition tells me it’s not the great ‘fan ownership’ deal that it purports to be. More reassurance & transparency required. 

[scotty]

29 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

No they have not, they have answered easy sound bites with no real substance. Their website alone is in breach of data protection (GDPR) so is completely set up on plans drawn on back of a fag packet, they won’t answer clearly the following from various people on various media.

 

Sounds like an e-mail to Off the Ball.  "I bet you wullny read this oot Cosgrove"

How long ago was it you sent these questions to them?

[javeajag]

10 minutes ago, sandy said:

Javeajag, it’s good you now recognise that neither side has provided sufficient information yet.

Yes but one has provided more than the other ( were even not quite sure now who that is) and is sending out a faq in a few days ...it’s four months and the information on the venture capitalists is still zero.....but to hear that Colin weir is not asking to be repaid is great news