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Message added by douglas clark

'Tis not the job of a moderator to stop people writing here. The rules are pretty simple:

reported ad hominem attacks will be investigated (and if found to be true) or write stuff that could get the site into trouble

and you'll either be warned / your post deleted, or - worst case scenario -  banned either temporarily or permanently.

This particular thread has had a vigorous exchange of views, and perhaps more heat than light. But the quality of the debate - it seems to me at least - is down to the lack of information.  That, in and of itself, means that whatever side you happen to be on is for a fan, very frustrating.

So, I have no intention of closing threads just because the quality of the postings isn't great. That is not the role of a moderator.

If you wake up the following morning you can always delete something you wish you'd never said.

 

 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

And so what - a Thistle Fan Group wants to use Colin Weirs Money to buy the Club - if they had used there own Money or managed to convince  enough Fans then it has credibility - but they havent  

Personally I like the idea of Thistle fans owning the club .....why won’t yiu tells us what you know ? Why is a private investment vehicle good for ptfc ?

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5 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

And so what - a Thistle Fan Group wants to use Colin Weirs Money to buy the Club - if they had used there own Money or managed to convince  enough Fans then it has credibility - but they havent  

Haven’t convinced you or haven’t convinced enough people? I thought the tipping point was when they raised enough money to buy 51%.

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This whole split in the fan base is very unfortunate. Let’s face it, most of us only have a passing knowledge in law, shares, and boardroom stuff.

Whichever side we support seems to be based on who we trust. Folk who are against TFE seem to be basing this on what happened under jacqui. She definitely got some decisions wrong - most notably the appointment of GC. The previous board are then tarnished with decisions that gc made eg. Dools departure. There will also be concern about the capabilities and financial management under the previous board. Who’s job was that though? I don’t know all these guys but I thought one of the current board had been employed previously as some sort of financial director? Also - Gerry b has been involved in all this. All the apparent ire is directed At jacqui. Also - at fans q and a thing, the current board went to great lengths to say that they did not return due to inadequacy with the old board. Other statements contradict that but it looks like they only returned to try and sell the club. 

At the end of the day though it seems crazy to me not to embrace the prospect of a benefactor with a real connection to the club. In combination with real supporters involved that could be a potent mix. I think that prospect is tarnished by the potential links to the previous board. Am afraid those opinions are tarnished by football decisions not made by them, combined with a slide in the clubs performance under their brief stewardship and you can understand some of that but...it certainly has my backing vs a group of relatively unknown foreign businessmen with a patchy track record at other clubs.

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10 minutes ago, blakey said:

Haven’t convinced you or haven’t convinced enough people? I thought the tipping point was when they raised enough money to buy 51%.

If it was raised by fans, then that would be a groundswell of support. As it stands it’s raised by one man (Colin Weir) with how many more pledges? 50, 100, 500, 1000, 50000? We don’t know as TFE haven’t published how many have registered support, but of that figure not all will carry through. Remember it was stated (By same guy running TFE) that Stirling Albion fan buyout had 50000 had signed up, when those actually putting any finances were a fraction of that.

 

The response on social media appears to be a definite No towards TFE

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If we were to take every example of an ownership structure that has failed we would never have anything in place. There are examples of all forms - one man shows, boards and fan owned - which have failed. Is it the structure or just bad decision making? You would have to look at each individual example to decide that. There is no guarantee that the TfE model would work but equally there is no guarantee that the New City consortium model would work either. Whatever we end up with the basics still come in to play - a clear strategy, everyone working in the same direction to achieve that and good decision making.

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8 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

If it was raised by fans, then that would be a groundswell of support. As it stands it’s raised by one man (Colin Weir) with how many more pledges? 50, 100, 500, 1000, 50000? We don’t know as TFE haven’t published how many have registered support, but of that figure not all will carry through. Remember it was stated (By same guy running TFE) that Stirling Albion fan buyout had 50000 had signed up, when those actually putting any finances were a fraction of that.

 

The response on social media appears to be a definite No towards TFE

Social media response is a definite no? How do you gauge that. I’m not sure it’s as obvious and the opinions look very split to me. 

In terms of actual pledges and indications of support TFE indicated they had until January to gauge if their approach is viable. I think we need to give them time.

The colin weir proposal has maybe skewed some of the conversation. But TFE might feel they need to accelerate some of their feedback, because of the prospect of the other bidders.

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10 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

If it was raised by fans, then that would be a groundswell of support. As it stands it’s raised by one man (Colin Weir) with how many more pledges? 50, 100, 500, 1000, 50000? We don’t know as TFE haven’t published how many have registered support, but of that figure not all will carry through. Remember it was stated (By same guy running TFE) that Stirling Albion fan buyout had 50000 had signed up, when those actually putting any finances were a fraction of that.

 

The response on social media appears to be a definite No towards TFE

As someone who does not have a twitter account or is on facebook (and that will not change) my views are still relevant, I hope, so whilst those who use these mediums might be against that is still just one part of the whole support.

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Just now, Fawlty Towers said:

As someone who does not have a twitter account or is on facebook (and that will not change) my views are still relevant, I hope, so whilst those who use these mediums might be against that is still just one part of the whole support.

Fawlty towers - you are not missing much!

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Fan ownership is a sound ideal, but in practice TFE are going to have to convince people like me (who have actually made an initial pledge) that they have a decent plan and will have the right people on the Club Board. I don’t want a clique from one particular supporters bus to be in charge.

The Consortium will also have to persuade fans about their longer term interest in Thistle.

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26 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

If it was raised by fans, then that would be a groundswell of support. As it stands it’s raised by one man (Colin Weir) with how many more pledges? 50, 100, 500, 1000, 50000? We don’t know as TFE haven’t published how many have registered support, but of that figure not all will carry through. Remember it was stated (By same guy running TFE) that Stirling Albion fan buyout had 50000 had signed up, when those actually putting any finances were a fraction of that.

 

The response on social media appears to be a definite No towards TFE

yup and look how well stirling are doing these days...

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26 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

If it was raised by fans, then that would be a groundswell of support. As it stands it’s raised by one man (Colin Weir) with how many more pledges? 50, 100, 500, 1000, 50000? We don’t know as TFE haven’t published how many have registered support, but of that figure not all will carry through. Remember it was stated (By same guy running TFE) that Stirling Albion fan buyout had 50000 had signed up, when those actually putting any finances were a fraction of that.

 

The response on social media appears to be a definite No towards TFE

Why is Colin weirs  money worse than some guy we’ve never heard of ?

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6 minutes ago, sandy said:

Fan ownership is a sound ideal, but in practice TFE are going to have to convince people like me (who have actually made an initial pledge) that they have a decent plan and will have the right people on the Club Board. I don’t want a clique from one particular supporters bus to be in charge.

The Consortium will also have to persuade fans about their longer term interest in Thistle.

Perfectly reasonable view .... the consortium  have clearly no interest in engaging with us fans that much is clear after 4 months 

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Despite our 160 pages of debate the bottom line is that no bidder requires to convince the fans of anything.  We don't count unless we have shares.  All either of the bidders has to do is convince the owners of 50%+1 of the shares to back their bid and it is a done deal.

If we end up being sold to the mystery consortium that does not change and our opinions as fans remain irrelevant to the ownership of the club.

If the TFE bid succeeds everything changes.  As many fans as want to be involved get to be involved - not in the day to day running of the club - but in the oversight of whoever is doing the day to day running of the club. The fans become the shareholders - not the directors.  Any fan that just wants to go on a Saturday to support the team gets to do just that.

I agree that the history of the Jags Trust might cause some to have doubts but the bottom line is that the TFE model allows us all a shot at being involved.  How it would proceed thereafter is entirely up to us.

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Is the hostility to fan ownership that's being expressed on here practical or ideological?

Is it that there's a concern that Thistle fans owning the club would mean poor decision making and an inability to maintain and develop income? Both reasonable worries, but surely valid concerns for the fans of Hearts, St. Mirren and Motherwell, all of whom seem to be coping okay.

Or is it that for some people fan ownership seems a bit too socialist and they think that it's better having business people in charge who know about making money? Which in some ways seems the safe option, but requires the acceptance that the main purpose of the club is financial, rather than sporting, success.

Are we concerned about being fooled by snake oil salesmen or do we not trust ourselves? 

It's been said that in the echo chamber of social media the jury has found against the TfE proposal. But this is mainly a small group of people all with similar views talking to themselves. The article in the Herald today by Graeme McGarry provides a more balanced account and expresses surprise at the hostile response from some Thistle fans to the idea of fan ownership. 

Of course any new owners of Thistle will have to answer questions about their plans and intentions. TfE/Colin Weir or whoever. But, as things stand, it seems to me that the fan ownership model is the one most worth pursuing.

I'm more than prepared to change my mind if the international consortium - New City Finance or Pacific whatever - come up with a plan to make us Premiership contenders, winning cups and playing in Europe. I'd sign up for that in a heartbeat. It's just that I've got a funny feeling that's not what's on offer.

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