New Owner

[allyo]

12 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said:

Chelsea and Man City were hardly established big clubs before the money men arrived.  

Yes they were. They may not have been top six but in terms of support I'd reckon Man City were top ten, and Chelsea not that far behind.

They were certainly big clubs.

ETA... https://www.worldfootball.net/attendance/eng-premier-league-1989-1990/1/

Edited September 30, 2019 by allyo

[allyo]

1 minute ago, Norgethistle said:

It’s in the most recent press release top of page 2

“TfE has given the Board broad details of a five-year plan to get Thistle back into the top half of the Premiership. It will work with the two supporters’ groups, The PTFC Trust and Jags Trust to work together in this move designed to give control to supporters”

 

https://thistleforever.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/2019-09-25-thistle-for-ever-offer.pdf

 

 

So did you add the "established" bit yourself? As I say, top six is a realistic target for Thistle (and many other clubs). Establishing themselves there in the long term is, I reckon, not.

[javeajag]

35 minutes ago, Lenziejag said:

I meant our board 

Yes they don’t communicate.... wonder why ?

[Dick Dastardly]

I do admire ambition although I doubt it is a realistic achievement. 

I personally wouldn't hold that against TfE if they don't succeed, I am more interested in the long term sustainability and ownership.

[allyo]

Just now, Dick Dastardly said:

I do admire ambition although I doubt it is a realistic achievement. 

I personally wouldn't hold that against TfE if they don't succeed, I am more interested in the long term sustainability and ownership.

Agree

[javeajag]

10 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

I stated “If”

I have asked time and time again, how with £50k additional income a year (£250K over the timescale) how being a top 6 team is viable. Especially as there will now be 2 boards to pay (Whether full time, part time or just expenses, it’s more than we pay currently).
 

The whole set up of TFE “appears” to be guided towards Colin Weir bankrolling this. If not someone show me where that additional income will come from, especially if run as a “Community Club” with no major shareholder or owner who will invest for no more control than you or me putting £15 a month in.

 

Look we got into the top six with basically the same funding as TFE are proposing 

 paying  two boards where does it say that ... you made it up 

Colin weir is bankrolling it where does it say that  .... you made it up 

in the premiership irrespective of ownership our income will be around £4-£5m more than Hamilton or Livvy so I have no idea what you are going on about 

[Lenziejag]

26 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

I stated “If”

I have asked time and time again, how with £50k additional income a year (£250K over the timescale) how being a top 6 team is viable. Especially as there will now be 2 boards to pay (Whether full time, part time or just expenses, it’s more than we pay currently).
 

The whole set up of TFE “appears” to be guided towards Colin Weir bankrolling this. If not someone show me where that additional income will come from, especially if run as a “Community Club” with no major shareholder or owner who will invest for no more control than you or me putting £15 a month in.

 

Again, to a certain extent I agree with you. But the current shareholders aren’t putting extra in on a regular basis and we have been doing ok financially for the last 5 or 6 years.  I think tfe have made a rod for their own back by stating one of their aims is to be a top 6 club, when the whole premise of fan or community ownership is to ensure control stays with the fans. If it means we are in the championship 1/2 of the time, that’s how their financial plans should be made.

[Norgethistle]

16 minutes ago, javeajag said:

Look we got into the top six with basically the same funding as TFE are proposing 

 paying  two boards where does it say that ... you made it up 

Colin weir is bankrolling it where does it say that  .... you made it up 

in the premiership irrespective of ownership our income will be around £4-£5m more than Hamilton or Livvy so I have no idea what you are going on about 

Hamilton and Livvy are not top 6 teams. Why would our income be more than these teams who utilize their grounds 7 days a week (AstroTurf) with newer cheaper to maintain grounds.

We achieved top 6 in a year with no Hibs or Dundee Utd, and with Rangers and Hearts just being promoted. A great achievement but helped somewhat by a weaker league.

Do you believe that 2 boards who don’t have their own money and probably a day to day job will do this for free?

Ive asked how it’s funded and is he bankrolling it seeing as from only being able to muster the support of 268 contributors generating £50k a year towards purchasing the shares we now have him offering to purchase not only the shares, but Propco and stating we will be top 6 in 5 years. 
 

Regardless of McColls ability getting out this league this season with that squad is one hell of a challenge,so unless we spend large in January that gives us 4 years or 3 in premiership to achieve that

[Norgethistle]

8 minutes ago, Lenziejag said:

Again, to a certain extent I agree with you. But the current shareholders aren’t putting extra in on a regular basis and we have been doing ok financially for the last 5 or 6 years.  I think tfe have made a rod for their own back by stating one of their aims is to be a top 6 club, when the whole premise of fan or community ownership is to ensure control stays with the fans. If it means we are in the championship 1/2 of the time, that’s how their financial plans should be made.

Exactly. 

[javeajag]

4 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

Hamilton and Livvy are not top 6 teams. Why would our income be more than these teams who utilize their grounds 7 days a week (AstroTurf) with newer cheaper to maintain grounds.

We achieved top 6 in a year with no Hibs or Dundee Utd, and with Rangers and Hearts just being promoted. A great achievement but helped somewhat by a weaker league.

Do you believe that 2 boards who don’t have their own money and probably a day to day job will do this for free?

Ive asked how it’s funded and is he bankrolling it seeing as from only being able to muster the support of 268 contributors generating £50k a year towards purchasing the shares we now have him offering to purchase not only the shares, but Propco and stating we will be top 6 in 5 years. 
 

Regardless of McColls ability getting out this league this season with that squad is one hell of a challenge,so unless we spend large in January that gives us 4 years or 3 in premiership to achieve that

Our income is more than these teams 

yes the two boards will do it for free as at now ( clearly you  wouldn’t )

colin weir is providing the funding to buy the majority stake and propco and transfer to ownership to the fans 

any manager we have in the premiership like Archie will say our aim is to get into the top six and quite right to 

[javeajag]

17 minutes ago, Lenziejag said:

Again, to a certain extent I agree with you. But the current shareholders aren’t putting extra in on a regular basis and we have been doing ok financially for the last 5 or 6 years.  I think tfe have made a rod for their own back by stating one of their aims is to be a top 6 club, when the whole premise of fan or community ownership is to ensure control stays with the fans. If it means we are in the championship 1/2 of the time, that’s how their financial plans should be made

Our financial plans I suspect won’t change that much .... raise as much income as you can and don’t spend more than that ... I’ve heard and seen nothing that didn’t indicate that will be the case 

[allyo]

Sounds like the top six thing is just an aspiration, and should be treated as such.

[Lenziejag]

46 minutes ago, javeajag said:

Yes they don’t communicate.... wonder why ?

How do you mean “don’t communicate”. There have been at least 2 statements in the last as many weeks, a question and answer session at the open day a few weeks ago and an AGM not even a week ago. Do you want daily updates ?  

[Big Col]

I’ve been on the Barnsley forum and yes, some fans aren’t happy with the way the club is being run.

Similar sort of anger from the Hearts fans unhappy with the way their club is being run - a community owned club.

Fan ownership isn’t the silver bullet some seem to think it is.

[allyo]

1 minute ago, Big Col said:

I’ve been on the Barnsley forum and yes, some fans aren’t happy with the way the club is being run.

Similar sort of anger from the Hearts fans unhappy with the way their club is being run - a community owned club.

Fan ownership isn’t the silver bullet some seem to think it is.

Certainly isn't. It's probably the most challenging way to run a football club. Same as how running your own business would be more complicated than taking a wage. Definitely needs the right people in place. But I don't think it should be knocked down before it's had a chance to get started.

[Norgethistle]

1 hour ago, javeajag said:

Our income is more than these teams 

yes the two boards will do it for free as at now ( clearly you  wouldn’t )

colin weir is providing the funding to buy the majority stake and propco and transfer to ownership to the fans 

any manager we have in the premiership like Archie will say our aim is to get into the top six and quite right to 

How much greater is our income compared to these two teams, and how does our expenditure compare.

Do you know these two boards will do it for free, if so how as the statement does not mention that. Maybe your closer than your letting on. There are (strongly rumored) to be another 2 or 3 involved, for whatever reason the names haven’t been released yet.

Yes he is and all with no strings, no conditions.

There is football management speak and business management, who are effectively putting out a statement of intent to prospective shareholders and investors 

[javeajag]

1 hour ago, Lenziejag said:

How do you mean “don’t communicate”. There have been at least 2 statements in the last as many weeks, a question and answer session at the open day a few weeks ago and an AGM not even a week ago. Do you want daily updates ?  

That being the case can you tell me...

1. who is buying the club

2. why they are buying it

3. what their plans are 

thanks 

[javeajag]

1 hour ago, Big Col said:

I’ve been on the Barnsley forum and yes, some fans aren’t happy with the way the club is being run.

Similar sort of anger from the Hearts fans unhappy with the way their club is being run - a community owned club.

Fan ownership isn’t the silver bullet some seem to think it is.

not sure who said it was a silver bullet ....but I think hearts fans are unhappy with results on the park 

this deal was presented as being transformational for us as yet there is no evidence to support that assertion 

[javeajag]

26 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

How much greater is our income compared to these two teams, and how does our expenditure compare.

Do you know these two boards will do it for free, if so how as the statement does not mention that. Maybe your closer than your letting on. There are (strongly rumored) to be another 2 or 3 involved, for whatever reason the names haven’t been released yet.

Yes he is and all with no strings, no conditions.

There is football management speak and business management, who are effectively putting out a statement of intent to prospective shareholders and investors 
 

1 it’s readily available information look it up

2 you  don’t know they will take fees ....what  Director  fees will the consortium Take ?

3 you made that up....again

4 your  last sentence is literally incomprehensible 

look we all get it you dont think Thistle fans should or could run the club (although the current board are fans but are special better ones) so take your chances with consortium 
 

 

 

[Norgethistle]

11 minutes ago, javeajag said:

1 it’s readily available information look it up

2 you  don’t know they will take fees ....what  Director  fees will the consortium Take ?

3 you made that up....again

4 your  last sentence is literally incomprehensible 

look we all get it you dont think Thistle fans should or could run the club (although the current board are fans but are special better ones) so take your chances with consortium 
 

 

 

1 no it’s not. Small company accounts 

2 you stated they won’t prove it

3 I stated he was buying it and gifting with no strings or conditions as per the statement. So is the statement wrong and there are strings and conditions involved. I’m taking it at its word even though £3 or 4 million “gift” seems extravagant 

4 In your opinion. But there is a difference from making a statement to fans compared to making a statement to potential investors or shareholders. An ex bank man like you should know that.

 

Im not against fan ownership, but there’s more behind the (IMHO) than what we see.  Plus with less than 10% of fans expressing an interest this does not seem like it has the backing of the support merely a handful of people declaring that the fans want this

[javeajag]

21 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

1 no it’s not. Small company accounts 

2 you stated they won’t prove it

3 I stated he was buying it and gifting with no strings or conditions as per the statement. So is the statement wrong and there are strings and conditions involved. I’m taking it at its word even though £3 or 4 million “gift” seems extravagant 

4 In your opinion. But there is a difference from making a statement to fans compared to making a statement to potential investors or shareholders. An ex bank man like you should know that.

 

Im not against fan ownership, but there’s more behind the (IMHO) than what we see.  Plus with less than 10% of fans expressing an interest this does not seem like it has the backing of the support merely a handful of people declaring that the fans want this

1. Yes it is from multiple sources ...we publish accounts !!! I’ve just looked at Hamilton’s at company’s house ....! 
2. They haven’t said anything about it your putting it forward as fact when it’s your opinion 

3.  Now I understand and we agree you just don’t like it as it undermines  your argument ...yes it appears he’s gifting it with no strings attached

4. So the statements our Board have made to us .....!!!
 

Actually I have never been that enthusiastic about fan ownership and if yiu go back over threads in this here in the last you will see that.....but this consortium will possibly be the end of us as a club.

[allyo]

I'm about 50-50 on fan ownership

I'm about 02-98 on international venture capitalist consortium ownership

[jlsarmy]

5 minutes ago, allyo said:

I'm about 50-50 on fan ownership

I'm about 02-98 on international venture capitalist consortium ownership

Where did the 2% come from ?

[Lindau]

Due to the consortiums total lack of communication to the trusts and our supporters, the only thing we can look at is how the supporters of their other clubs view/viewed them. Demonstrations by supporters at Nice to get them out happened, as they appeared unhappy at the amount of debt the consortium was racking up at the clubs expense and the excessive interest rates they were paying on the debt. Why do billionaires have to take out loans in the first place? Barnsley fans, going by their forums, appear about 80/20 against.  Selling their best assets and replacing them with young untried talent, in the hope that they can unearth a gem and flog them at a nice profit ASAP. Whereas there are a lot of questions TFE have to answer they look the safest bet out of the two in my opinion. 

Edited September 30, 2019 by Lindau

[javeajag]

8 minutes ago, Lindau said:

Due to the consortiums total lack of communication to the trusts and our supporters, the only thing we can look at is how the supporters of their other clubs view/viewed them. Demonstrations by supporters at Nice to get them out happened, as they appeared unhappy at the amount of debt the consortium was racking up at the clubs expense and the excessive interest rates they were paying on the debt. Why do billionaires have to take out loans in the first place? Barnsley fans, going by their forums, appear about 80/20 against.  Selling their best assets and replacing them with young untried talent, in the hope that they can unearth a gem and flog them at a nice profit ASAP. Whereas there are a lot of questions TFE have to answer they look the safest bet out of the two in my opinion. 

It’s always important to distinguish between their personal wealth and their business activity....they won’t be spending any of their own money look at mike Ashley at Newcastle 

Edited September 30, 2019 by javeajag