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Message added by douglas clark

'Tis not the job of a moderator to stop people writing here. The rules are pretty simple:

reported ad hominem attacks will be investigated (and if found to be true) or write stuff that could get the site into trouble

and you'll either be warned / your post deleted, or - worst case scenario -  banned either temporarily or permanently.

This particular thread has had a vigorous exchange of views, and perhaps more heat than light. But the quality of the debate - it seems to me at least - is down to the lack of information.  That, in and of itself, means that whatever side you happen to be on is for a fan, very frustrating.

So, I have no intention of closing threads just because the quality of the postings isn't great. That is not the role of a moderator.

If you wake up the following morning you can always delete something you wish you'd never said.

 

 

 

 

 

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On 10/5/2019 at 12:58 PM, Norgethistle said:

We never approached Nielsen till after United had. Even though Archie was fired on the Saturday we waited till the Monday I believe, by which time United had pounced

Nielsen had verbally accepted the Utd job before being invited in by us for "a chat". I believe that the offer was competitive but that he would have been uncomfortable about reneging on his verbal acceptance. 

Prior to Archie's sacking, he had concerns with being linked to Archie's job as he "had a lot of respect for Alan".   

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On ‎10‎/‎4‎/‎2019 at 12:57 PM, Semi Nurainen said:

Something else I have noticed: there is a significant correlation between the people on here promoting TFE and those who were the slowest to wake up to the fact that Caldwell was an utter  dud.

I had just assumed that was because on the other side you had the people who were chums with the old board, disliked Jacqui Low from the off, and were never prepared to give Gary Caldwell a chance regardless of what he did

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43 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

 

7143028C-6915-467F-9359-761A7E6F77F9.png

What about this reply? Screenshot_20191007-215739.thumb.png.6deab47dd61dd9093219924893bbf892.png

I honestly don't know how any fan can still seriously believe selling to this consortium is going to be a good thing considering what the fans of Nice and Barnsley have advised based on their experiences! 

Edited by Bitter Jag
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Just now, Bitter Jag said:

What about this reply? Screenshot_20191007-215739.thumb.png.6deab47dd61dd9093219924893bbf892.png

I honestly don't know how any fan can seriously believe selling to this consortium is going to be a good thing considering what the fans of Nice and Barnsley have advised based on their experiences! 

When you read the Barnsley forums it’s very split.  Towards end of last season the consortium were the best thing since sliced bread. Since the abysmal start they are the devil personified.

We have always been a selling team for any half decent prospect, and recently seem to be a dumping ground for agents to offload players to

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Just now, Norgethistle said:

When you read the Barnsley forums it’s very split.  Towards end of last season the consortium were the best thing since sliced bread. Since the abysmal start they are the devil personified.

We have always been a selling team for any half decent prospect, and recently seem to be a dumping ground for agents to offload players to

So you would like them to buy the club ? 

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I mean, what else does anyone expect? They're money people, not football people, and as far as we know they have no links to this country, never mind Thistle. I honestly can't believe that anyone thinks this would be good for us.

 

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4 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

When you read the Barnsley forums it’s very split.  Towards end of last season the consortium were the best thing since sliced bread. Since the abysmal start they are the devil personified.

We have always been a selling team for any half decent prospect, and recently seem to be a dumping ground for agents to offload players to

What about the question raised about the difference with the moneyball principle with the first pick option across the water, that doesn't happen over here. A key factor in making the moneyball work surely?

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Their strategy is to apply the moneyball approach to football by developing young players and sell them for a profit. At this point it is an unproven strategy. The evidence from Barnsley indicates some success in selling players at a profit - but so do other teams like us  - but this seems to be at the expense of the club being successful on the park. Rather than build on getting promoted last summer the approach was to cash in on players and effectively bringing  in a new young team. The current manager who sky report is about to be sacked has said this team won’t be able to survive in the championship. You can see this as older players have less ‘value’ ie to make money on.

this consortium is motivated by making money the club being successful on the park is secondary and they put in zero money  why we would we want this is a mystery 

Edited by javeajag
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Comparisons with what we have done previously (Lindsay, Fitzpatrick etc) seem way off the mark to me.

When Thistle have sold players, throughout our history, it has been for the good of the club. We've wished them well and, as fans, been able to see the positive side, whether it's about reinvesting in the club, the playing staff, or just keeping us financially stable.

If we start seeing our best players sold off just to line the pockets of our shareholders then it's a very different thing.

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4 minutes ago, allyo said:

Comparisons with what we have done previously (Lindsay, Fitzpatrick etc) seem way off the mark to me.

When Thistle have sold players, throughout our history, it has been for the good of the club. We've wished them well and, as fans, been able to see the positive side, whether it's about reinvesting in the club, the playing staff, or just keeping us financially stable.

If we start seeing our best players sold off just to line the pockets of our shareholders then it's a very different thing.

This and why people can't see or admit this, is beyond me. 

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8 minutes ago, javeajag said:

Their strategy is to apply the moneyball approach to football by developing young players and sell them for a profit. At this point it is an unproven strategy. The evidence from Barnsley indicates some success in selling players at a profit - but so do other teams like us  - but this seems to be at the expense of the club being successful on the park. Rather than build on getting promoted last summer the approach was to cash in on players and effectively bringing  in a new young team. The current manager who sky report is about to be sacked has said this team won’t be able to survive in the championship. You can see this as older players have less ‘value’ ie to make money on.

this consortium is motivated by making money the club being successful on the park is secondary and they put in zero money  why we would we want this is a mystery 

The moneyball template doesn’t work , their main objective is to maybe get lucky with some young players and sell them for a profit regardless of the circumstances.

When building a football team , you always need experienced players to help the youngsters and also mentor and guide them in to being professional football players. 

Some of the time there might not be any monetary value for example of a 33yr at the end of his contract but his value is obviously his experience on the park and managing games .

 

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I was a bit miffed when we sold Aiden Fitzpatrick after effectively one season, when he rarely started a game. I'd have loved to have seen him develop at Firhill before moving on. Understand why that didn't happen but it would be sole destroying that policy being the norm. Watching young prospects play for us for half a season to one season max as norm. 

Loved when we got promoted last time and held on to the bulk of the squad. Would not have been the same if we then immediately sold Bannigan, SOD, ATS, Lawless & Elliott. Even if it had made complete commercial sense it would still have been galling. Guess what I'm getting at is a theoretical successful business model (using a lot of latitude here) won't necessarily work for the football fan if it's a soulless venture.   

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I find it all very confusing. As a club we are, apparently, in a reasonably sound position (apart from our league standing obviously). We have what, to most fans, appears a pretty horrific proposal to take us over. There is nothing I know of, in the evidence of this consortium's record, or in the history of big money foreign ownership in Scottish football at our level, or the logic in my head, to suggest that this model is good for the long term future of the club.

Yet there is a core of intelligent and committed (and apparently well connected) Thistle fans on this forum who continue to defend the proposals. Not so much by demonstrating its benefits, but by deriding any alternatives, pledging total faith in our current board, and at times ridiculing those who disagree. 

I can understand the trust in those who they know personally. That is fair enough. But is that all it is, or is there more? Because for me, from the outside looking in, it isn't enough. I'm really worried.

Edited by allyo
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