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Message added by douglas clark

'Tis not the job of a moderator to stop people writing here. The rules are pretty simple:

reported ad hominem attacks will be investigated (and if found to be true) or write stuff that could get the site into trouble

and you'll either be warned / your post deleted, or - worst case scenario -  banned either temporarily or permanently.

This particular thread has had a vigorous exchange of views, and perhaps more heat than light. But the quality of the debate - it seems to me at least - is down to the lack of information.  That, in and of itself, means that whatever side you happen to be on is for a fan, very frustrating.

So, I have no intention of closing threads just because the quality of the postings isn't great. That is not the role of a moderator.

If you wake up the following morning you can always delete something you wish you'd never said.

 

 

 

 

 

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16 minutes ago, Firhillista said:

I'm not going to quote the nonsense that's appearing on here in support of the consortium bid - plenty of other folk have rightly picked it apart as the drivel it is.

Let's be clear, if we sell the club to a group of venture capitalists because they're 'business people' then we deserve all we get.  And what we WON'T get is a successful football club. At best, it'll be an incubation pod for young footballers who we'll get to watch for precisely as long as it takes to transfer them out for as much money as possible. Money which will then go to the owners, not the club.

To dismiss every concern about New City Finance as just fans being fickle is ridiculous. There's no evidence that these people have benefited either of the clubs they've been involved with! Why should we welcome them to Firhill? Because they're 'business people'?! They're here to make money, not to benefit Partick Thistle. And anyone who thinks the two inevitably go hand in hand are mistaking a financially successful company with a successful sporting organisation - they're not necessarily the same.

I'm sick to the back teeth of reading about people who 'aren't against fan ownership', but have done everything in their power to belittle and sneer at any attempt to put it in place at Thistle. Much as I disagree with fellow Thistle fans about, well, almost everything, I'd rather have Thistle fans owning the club than a bunch of money vampires.

My preference is for the current board to remain, but as they seem intent to sell that isn't an option.

The ' consortium's' ideals do seem rather suspect.

As many on here I cannot get my head around why they want an fairly impoverished club like Partick Thistle. 

I am not in favour of them taking over until I see some meat on the bones.

Regards TFL. I am not in favour of a fans run club as I suspect that emotions can get in the way of practicality. Although a board may consist of Thistle fans I believe as businessmen they can take a more hard headed attitude to difficult decisions.

Now, the worrying thing for me about TFL is the backing of Colin Weir.

This has happened so soon after he took a fit of pique over J. Low and her board being booted off. Now he may initially pile in financial backing, but how sustainable is it. He isnt getting any younger are apparently isnt in the best of health. He recently separated from his wife, so he has a lot to contend with. If his health worsens to the extent that he cannot control any financial aspects, what then?

As I have said  I prefer the present board to remain. But that seems the least likely option.

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Garscube Road End said:

My preference is for the current board to remain, but as they seem intent to sell that isn't an option.

The ' consortium's' ideals do seem rather suspect.

As many on here I cannot get my head around why they want an fairly impoverished club like Partick Thistle. 

I am not in favour of them taking over until I see some meat on the bones.

Regards TFL. I am not in favour of a fans run club as I suspect that emotions can get in the way of practicality. Although a board may consist of Thistle fans I believe as businessmen they can take a more hard headed attitude to difficult decisions.

Now, the worrying thing for me about TFL is the backing of Colin Weir.

This has happened so soon after he took a fit of pique over J. Low and her board being booted off. Now he may initially pile in financial backing, but how sustainable is it. He isnt getting any younger are apparently isnt in the best of health. He recently separated from his wife, so he has a lot to contend with. If his health worsens to the extent that he cannot control any financial aspects, what then?

As I have said  I prefer the present board to remain. But that seems the least likely option.

 

 

 

As I understand Colin weir is proposing to provide the funding for a fans trust to buy a majority shareholding in the club. I’m nit aware he will be involved after that. 

of course there are questions over fan ownership .. for example I would like to see some financial guidelines put in place to restrict borrowing or overspending so we live within our means But if we engage we can make it as good as it can be.

the so called consortium has nothing to commend it 

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It appears we have gone from the consortium being transformational in a positive way to the lesser of two evils and/or no worse off when they leave.

As concerns from fans of Nice and Barnsley are being dismissed let's see what a reporter with no axe to grind makes of it;

Andy Giddings, BBC Radio Sheffield sports editor

Many fans would blame the club's recruitment policy, not the head coach for the circumstances they find themselves in.

And Reds fans are angered that a popular, promotion-winning, manager has left at a relatively early stage of the season.

The use of a fairly brutal statement hasn't gone down well either.

Barnsley use a 'Moneyball' spreadsheet model for finding players. Not all of them are going to work and trying to make the ones that do arrive work in a harder division than League One was always going to be tough.

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50 minutes ago, Fawlty Towers said:

It appears we have gone from the consortium being transformational in a positive way to the lesser of two evils and/or no worse off when they leave.

As concerns from fans of Nice and Barnsley are being dismissed let's see what a reporter with no axe to grind makes of it;

Andy Giddings, BBC Radio Sheffield sports editor

Many fans would blame the club's recruitment policy, not the head coach for the circumstances they find themselves in.

And Reds fans are angered that a popular, promotion-winning, manager has left at a relatively early stage of the season.

The use of a fairly brutal statement hasn't gone down well either.

Barnsley use a 'Moneyball' spreadsheet model for finding players. Not all of them are going to work and trying to make the ones that do arrive work in a harder division than League One was always going to be tough.

Every Major Club uses a MoneyBall Approach to signing Players in some shape or form so its not unique  

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2 hours ago, Firhillista said:

I'm not going to quote the nonsense that's appearing on here in support of the consortium bid - plenty of other folk have rightly picked it apart as the drivel it is.

Let's be clear, if we sell the club to a group of venture capitalists because they're 'business people' then we deserve all we get.  And what we WON'T get is a successful football club. At best, it'll be an incubation pod for young footballers who we'll get to watch for precisely as long as it takes to transfer them out for as much money as possible. Money which will then go to the owners, not the club.

To dismiss every concern about New City Finance as just fans being fickle is ridiculous. There's no evidence that these people have benefited either of the clubs they've been involved with! Why should we welcome them to Firhill? Because they're 'business people'?! They're here to make money, not to benefit Partick Thistle. And anyone who thinks the two inevitably go hand in hand are mistaking a financially successful company with a successful sporting organisation - they're not necessarily the same.

I'm sick to the back teeth of reading about people who 'aren't against fan ownership', but have done everything in their power to belittle and sneer at any attempt to put it in place at Thistle. Much as I disagree with fellow Thistle fans about, well, almost everything, I'd rather have Thistle fans owning the club than a bunch of money vampires.

Ref Fan Ownership - If you show me where it works in Scotland - St Mirren - Hearts - Motherwell - there not "Fan Owned - Stirling Albion are - Dundee were and gave up 

Its not the Fan Ownership its who would run us - the Shareholders had enough cash to "donate" between 100- 250K to the Cub ( and a lot more in some cases ) - this has helped Fund us over the Years along with various other Cash Injections over the years - without Fans with High Nett Worth or High Level Business Contacts we will struggle - we have run out of Fans willing to put in cash - simple as that 

So its about the who ( and it defo wouldn't be TFE for me on any level ) and the How - as for Colin Weirs offer - sorry but not via TFE 

 

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This is a little like the brexit debate where you cant get an answer out of anyone as to what the financial benefits of leaving the EU are. Just a trust us it will be ok without a shred of evidence. This appears to be the consortium position. Trust us but dont expect us to give you the courtesy of a scintilla of detail. Why any fan would trust this position is unfathomable. 

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2 minutes ago, javeajag said:

Can you define moneyball approach in this context ?

All Major Premier Clubs use statistical analysis & Brentford have been using a Moneyball Approach for Years 

Do I want to watch a Team of Young Players rather than rehashed Pros ? - it worked under Jackie Mac - so dont see the problem   

 

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Just now, dl1971 said:

This is a little like the brexit debate where you cant get an answer out of anyone as to what the financial benefits of leaving the EU are. Just a trust us it will be ok without a shred of evidence. This appears to be the consortium position. Trust us but dont expect us to give you the courtesy of a scintilla of detail. Why any fan would trust this position is unfathomable. 

And if it hasnt been leaked than we wouldnt know anything about it 

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Just now, Jordanhill Jag said:

All Major Premier Clubs use statistical analysis & Brentford have been using a Moneyball Approach for Years 

Do I want to watch a Team of Young Players rather than rehashed Pros ? - it worked under Jackie Mac - so dont see the problem   

 

So it’s not unique , everybody does it .... hardly sounds transformational 

and now I am worried the grand plan is to play young players ....actually we also want the team to win games and get out of this league 

Look at Barnsley .... they need experienced players to build a balanced side ..,, it’s madness 

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5 hours ago, allyo said:

If Thistle are not in a desperate situation, and the current board are genuinely interested in the long term future of the club, then I'm sorry, this shouldn't be about the lesser of two evils. Every other club in Scotland hasn't been sold to vultures. No one is forcing them.

If the board wants to sell to the first serious offer, and they are not concerned about the motives of foreign venture capitalists with no apparent reason to want to buy Thistle except make money, then that is their right. But in the absence of anything to put my mind at ease I maintain my right to be worried about it.

We have a a couple of Tweets and and a Journo Report that said zero - they weren't complaining when they got promoted - so we have no hard evidence to suggest they are "Vultures " foreign venture capitalists" so Scottish ones would be of a higher moral standing ? 

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1 minute ago, javeajag said:

So it’s not unique , everybody does it .... hardly sounds transformational 

and now I am worried the grand plan is to play young players ....actually we also want the team to win games and get out of this league 

Look at Barnsley .... they need experienced players to build a balanced side ..,, it’s madness 

Jackie Mac used a Young Squad some signed from Amateur Level ? 

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1 minute ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

We have a a couple of Tweets and and a Journo Report that said zero - they weren't complaining when they got promoted - so we have no hard evidence to suggest they are "Vultures " foreign venture capitalists" so Scottish ones would be of a higher moral standing ? 

No we have their whole experience at nice and Barnsley ....

no capital investment 

yo-yo football performance 

no transformation

unhappy fans 

naw 

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5 hours ago, jlsarmy said:

2 points JJ , not all shareholders want to sell to the Consortium/ Investment Company and if the Investment Company doesn’t make any money where are the contingency plans after that .

The Majority do 

So what were the Contingency Plans if we didnt get promoted this Season under the previous Board 

£700K funded by Cash Reserves and Debt - or were you ok with that as the werent   Venture Capatalists 

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3 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Its factually correct 

It’s actually not the point .....they are refusing at Barnsley to have ANY experienced players , sacked the manager who got them promoted and are struggling .....and today produced one of the worst statement on sacking a manger ever seen

they are just awful 

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19 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Do I want to watch a Team of Young Players rather than rehashed Pros ? - it worked under Jackie Mac - so dont see the problem   

Neither do I if these young players were to be with us for a reasonable length of time. And if and when they moved on it was with our manager's blessing. If the norm is hearing after 4-6 months "we didn't want to stand in Young Thingy's way" then, no thanks.

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1 hour ago, Fawlty Towers said:

It appears we have gone from the consortium being transformational in a positive way to the lesser of two evils and/or no worse off when they leave.

As concerns from fans of Nice and Barnsley are being dismissed let's see what a reporter with no axe to grind makes of it;

Andy Giddings, BBC Radio Sheffield sports editor

Many fans would blame the club's recruitment policy, not the head coach for the circumstances they find themselves in.

And Reds fans are angered that a popular, promotion-winning, manager has left at a relatively early stage of the season.

The use of a fairly brutal statement hasn't gone down well either.

Barnsley use a 'Moneyball' spreadsheet model for finding players. Not all of them are going to work and trying to make the ones that do arrive work in a harder division than League One was always going to be tough.

If you've stooped to using a football journalist's rent-a-quote, you must be getting desperate. 

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27 minutes ago, javeajag said:

It’s actually not the point .....they are refusing at Barnsley to have ANY experienced players , sacked the manager who got them promoted and are struggling .....and today produced one of the worst statement on sacking a manger ever seen

they are just awful 

Actually it is the point - our promotion squad was Young and Inexperienced and we dont know if they dont have "ANY" experienced Players - Southampton did similiar for the same Reasons and brought in Pochettino  and there previous Manager had been popular and got them promoted but wouldnt Play Young Players 

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