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Message added by douglas clark

'Tis not the job of a moderator to stop people writing here. The rules are pretty simple:

reported ad hominem attacks will be investigated (and if found to be true) or write stuff that could get the site into trouble

and you'll either be warned / your post deleted, or - worst case scenario -  banned either temporarily or permanently.

This particular thread has had a vigorous exchange of views, and perhaps more heat than light. But the quality of the debate - it seems to me at least - is down to the lack of information.  That, in and of itself, means that whatever side you happen to be on is for a fan, very frustrating.

So, I have no intention of closing threads just because the quality of the postings isn't great. That is not the role of a moderator.

If you wake up the following morning you can always delete something you wish you'd never said.

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Semi Nurainen said:

1 - I have read that the Chine Lee/Conway consortium New City Capital. That's all I know. 

2 - Some of this may be sub judice as is common in business takeovers - the Sunderland chairman (or whaveter) was on the fans' website explaining  this 'it's not like buying as house'. You must know this.

3 - Their track record is public domain if they are a limited company in the UK, but is visible at Nice and Barnsley - where the latter club gained promotion, and have now sacked a manager for poor results (as we have just done).

Ok

1. new city capital did not buy nice or Barnsley ...eg in Barnsley’s case it was a company set up for that purpose 

2 it’s not clear that Chien Lee is now involved

3 it’s not sub judice it would be an NDA stipulating not to say anything g publicly that is a choice not a legal obligation 

4. They are not a ltd company but a private record and have 18 months as the owners of Barnsley 

4 they have not transformed either club they have owned 

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56 minutes ago, Semi Nurainen said:

We can start with 'how this consortium will be good for the club'. Already stated many times, lesser of two evils.

(Still waiting to see how TfE will be good for the club, but never mind).

Then there's the 'big lie' that people who want some business skills on the board are Tories.

Don't tell a small lie when you can tell a big one.

So the consortium is nit good for us just less bad ....wonderful where do I sign ?

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3 minutes ago, Semi Nurainen said:

Can you point to the bit where I said 'transformational' or 'great track record'.

Ah yes, sorry, didn't mean to imply those quotes were yours.

'Transformational' was from David Beattie and 'great track record' was from Malcolm Cannon at the board Q&A.

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1 minute ago, allyo said:

I don't think it's about whether you sell young players. A club like this will always sell their players if the offer is worth it.

The question is what is the motivation for selling these players. If it is to reinvest in the squad, grow the club, even just balance the books, then fine. If it is to line the shareholders' pockets then less fine.

First, you have to believe that somehow or other you will be able to grow young talent in sufficient quantity and quality to make the whole operation - i.e. buying the club, appointing coaching and managerial talent to bring on the youngsters, selling the players, and finally selling the club for more than you bought it for (or even just balance the books)- worthwhile. 

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2 minutes ago, Semi Nurainen said:

By selling on young players - stop being disingenuous.

If you are as anti-tory as you claim to be you may have noticed that nowadays senior professional football is pretty much all about money. That's why we have supporters getting up at 7 in the morning to go to a 1200 o'clock kick-off at the other end of the country or getting home at 2 in the morning after 1700 kick off on a Sunday evening ; that's why we've got the farce of Friday night football. That's why we have things like Jagzone and hospitality, and pay £2.50 for a pie; it's what we've all signed up to whether we want to believe it or not.

If you don't like the fact that money drives the game you need to go and watch Pollok or Maryhill Juniors where they do it for love.

It's one thing to have to put up with the way money influences the modern game, quite another to accept the predations of a group of venture capitalists. Quite a feat of moral gymnastics for someone who's' anti-tory'.

And I'll choose who my team is for myself, thanks. I've been following Thistle for the past 50 years and I'm not giving up now. Irrespective of who the owners are.

 

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2 minutes ago, Firhillista said:

It's one thing to have to put up with the way money influences the modern game, quite another to accept the predations of a group of venture capitalists. Quite a feat of moral gymnastics for someone who's' anti-tory'.

And I'll choose who my team is for myself, thanks. I've been following Thistle for the past 50 years and I'm not giving up now. Irrespective of who the owners are.

 

No it's pretty much the same moral question. 

But well said, so will I - TfE or consortium.

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51 minutes ago, Semi Nurainen said:

You're the one that's trumpeting, and continuing to make up lies about people.  

If you think I am even close to being a tory , it shows how appallingly, alarmingly wide of the mark your judgement is. 

The main criticism of the consortium has been that they will sell on young players. I keep asking, where does TfE says they won't sell on young players, I keep getting no answer.

Sorry to but in, but my main criticism of the consortium is that they will work for personal profit, while the TfE team will be working for the profit of PTFC.

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8 minutes ago, Semi Nurainen said:

Come on, these guys are entitled to their money back.

Page 193 - still no positive case for TfE. 

 

Oh I thought they invested expecting not to get their money back ?! 
 

then get someone who will be good for the club 

You say your a fan but you will willingly sell the club to well you don’t know and to do what we’ll you don’t know ..   mental 

try and reply without mentioning TFE  

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22 minutes ago, Semi Nurainen said:

First, you have to believe that somehow or other you will be able to grow young talent in sufficient quantity and quality to make the whole operation - i.e. buying the club, appointing coaching and managerial talent to bring on the youngsters, selling the players, and finally selling the club for more than you bought it for (or even just balance the books)- worthwhile. 

Yes. And that's kinda their business. As Thistle fans it makes little difference, if these players are not being developed for the benefit of Partick Thistle.

This is the distinction for me. Yes, we sold Liam Lindsay, Aidan Fitzpatrick. But we sold them to benefit Thistle. The danger here (and I know we're speculating), is that we will only be developing players for the sake of shareholder profit. We might benefit while they show their potential and their value increases, but ultimately the motive is not club benefit, and that to me is a fudamental problem.

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10 minutes ago, javeajag said:

Oh I thought they invested expecting not to get their money back ?! 
 

then get someone who will be good for the club 

You say your a fan but you will willingly sell the club to well you don’t know and to do what we’ll you don’t know ..   mental 

try and reply without mentioning TFE  

I agree. That's not TfE.

I'm not selling a single thing.

Try and reply without mentioning  you know who.

 

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1 minute ago, allyo said:

Yes. And that's kinda their business. As Thistle fans it makes little difference, if these players are not being developed for the benefit of Partick Thistle.

This is the distinction for me. Yes, we sold Liam Lindsay, Aidan Fitzpatrick. But we sold them to benefit Thistle. The danger here (and I know we're speculating), is that we will only be developing players for the sake of shareholder profit. We might benefit while they show their potential and their value increases, but ultimately the motive is not club benefit, and that to me is a fudamental problem.

Think we're singing from the same hymn sheet, allyo, or lest on the same page. It's quite possible to be a profitable club and remain in a moderate to mediocre league position. Nurture a few players one season, sell them on, nurture a few more the following season and so on. Always making a healthy profit yet never having a settled team long enough to really challenge further up the league. In short the owners could thrive while we just soldier on. 

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13 minutes ago, allyo said:

Yes. And that's kinda their business. As Thistle fans it makes little difference, if these players are not being developed for the benefit of Partick Thistle.

This is the distinction for me. Yes, we sold Liam Lindsay, Aidan Fitzpatrick. But we sold them to benefit Thistle. The danger here (and I know we're speculating), is that we will only be developing players for the sake of shareholder profit. We might benefit while they show their potential and their value increases, but ultimately the motive is not club benefit, and that to me is a fudamental problem.

These are money guys they are investing to get a return , the performance of the team on the park is a secondary concern , you can see their model emerging at Barnsley getting relegated this season was less important than making a profit from player sales 

Partick Thistle means even less than Barnsley to them 

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54 minutes ago, javeajag said:

Ok

1. new city capital did not buy nice or Barnsley ...eg in Barnsley’s case it was a company set up for that purpose 

2 it’s not clear that Chien Lee is now involved

3 it’s not sub judice it would be an NDA stipulating not to say anything g publicly that is a choice not a legal obligation 

4. They are not a ltd company but a private record and have 18 months as the owners of Barnsley 

4 they have not transformed either club they have owned 

5 They do know that 5 comes after 4

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23 minutes ago, javeajag said:

These are money guys they are investing to get a return , the performance of the team on the park is a secondary concern , you can see their model emerging at Barnsley getting relegated this season was less important than making a profit from player sales 

Partick Thistle means even less than Barnsley to them 

What confuses me though... it's going to be a pretty meagre profit. Have they seen what players sell for in Scotland?

We've been told that billionaires wouldn't be interested in selling Firhill for flats because it would be small change to them. Would the same not apply to our players?

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3 minutes ago, allyo said:

What confuses me though... it's going to be a pretty meagre profit. Have they seen what players sell for in Scotland?

We've been told that billionaires wouldn't be interested in selling Firhill for flats because it would be small change to them. Would the same not apply to our players?

Yep agreed very strange and we know they will not be investing in the club as such .... so maybe it’s sell to Barnsley to sell on again and get two payments 

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3 minutes ago, javeajag said:

Yep agreed very strange and we know they will not be investing in the club as such .... so maybe it’s sell to Barnsley to sell on again and get two payments 

So we don't even wait until the player has value. Only until they have potential to have value.

I can see this being transformative right enough. Our team will be transforming every six months.

Edited by allyo
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