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Message added by douglas clark

'Tis not the job of a moderator to stop people writing here. The rules are pretty simple:

reported ad hominem attacks will be investigated (and if found to be true) or write stuff that could get the site into trouble

and you'll either be warned / your post deleted, or - worst case scenario -  banned either temporarily or permanently.

This particular thread has had a vigorous exchange of views, and perhaps more heat than light. But the quality of the debate - it seems to me at least - is down to the lack of information.  That, in and of itself, means that whatever side you happen to be on is for a fan, very frustrating.

So, I have no intention of closing threads just because the quality of the postings isn't great. That is not the role of a moderator.

If you wake up the following morning you can always delete something you wish you'd never said.

 

 

 

 

 

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27 minutes ago, admin said:

There is a lot of misleading information being posted on here re TfE. Personally I'd like to see TfE be a little more proactive in addressing that but in absence of that here goes. 

There is an implied suggestion that Thistle would be funded by the pledges. 

That isn't remotely the case. 

That would be new, additional income. 

The Club would continue to be funded precisely as it currently is through, but not limited to:

Season Ticket sales

Gate Receipts

Sponsorship and commercial activities

Prize money

Transfer activity 

It should also be noted that not currently making a pledge to TfE doesn't constitute a lack of support for the model they are proposing. 

Additionally, the Club won't be fan run but fan owned. Or at least no more fan run than it currently is. 

The Club will be run by a Board of Directors who will be appointed to the Board on the basis of their skill set. Precisely what happens now. 

So in summary, a TfE owned Thistle would be funded precisely as it currently is. The operational Board of Directors would be appointed precisely as they currently are. 

The difference lies in who would own the Club. 

That would be the fans of Partick Thistle Football Club. You and me. 

It's a model not without its challenges  but it is a safeguard against our club being vulnerable to the predatory instincts of an individual or individuals for whom the success of the team on the park may not be their number one priority. Or a priority at all. 

It's a challenge as I've said but for me an exciting one and one a hell of a more preferable to some of what has been suggested over the last few months. 

Finally, just for the benefit of doubt I have no connection with TfE aside from having made a modest monthly pledge. 

So can you explain the very strange scenario where the Current Board couldnt get in Contact with Colin Weir but TFE managed to not only get in Touch but secured £10MN + of Funding without any Conditions - dont you find that a bit strange 

Also its the TFE Model they are in the driving seat - they are deciding how the Club will operate going forward - as for the "appiontees" to the Board -  how do you know it will be exactly as it is at present - in fact it will be very very  different - do you believe for one second that Business People of the Calibre of Billy Allan - Norman - David Beattie - Ronnie - Greig Brown would remotely in any shape or form go in front of a Board of Fan Reps to be vetted - NO CHANCE - therefore you have already  pushed down the standards before a Ball is kicked 

As for Finances - Directors Chip in or we dont balance the books - therefore its pretty much going to Colin Weir Funding - so what happens when we hit cashflow problems which has occurred on many occassions - are the Elected Board Chipping in - The Operations Board ? 

As for TFE - they are seriously going to take over the Running of the Club - based on what - if it was popular they would have more than 263 Pledges - look at St Mirren - Falkirk Support Fan Ownership Runs into Thousands - TFE have mustered 263 - tells you everything you need to know 

Meet the New NW Bus - but this time they want to take over the Club - scary scary thought    

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1 hour ago, javeajag said:

I’m not getting the part where you critically evaluate the consortium the same way you do tfe

The bit is the Consortium are funding it - it fails they lose Money 

TFE are simply a PR Machine using Coin Weirs Money 

The Consortium are a Business 

TFE are what exactly  ? Who exactly are they that manage to make direct Contact  with Colin Weir and get £10MN + of funding immediately - but you dont find that remotely strange ?   

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

The bit is the Consortium are funding it - it fails they lose Money 

TFE are simply a PR Machine using Coin Weirs Money 

The Consortium are a Business 

TFE are what exactly  ? Who exactly are they that manage to make direct Contact  with Colin Weir and get £10MN + of funding immediately - but you dont find that remotely strange ?   

 

 

 

If you don’t know who the consortium are , their background and their plans then this post is completely not true.

And it is not a business it is a private company set up with the express objective of buying the club ....you don’t know what you are talking about 

and you have no idea how they are funding it 

indeed you literally nothing about them 

talking of strange why would an investment banker who made his money in Asia then moved into restructuring businesses in China want to buy a small football club in Glasgow ?

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1 hour ago, admin said:

There is a lot of misleading information being posted on here re TfE. Personally I'd like to see TfE be a little more proactive in addressing that but in absence of that here goes. 

There is an implied suggestion that Thistle would be funded by the pledges. 

That isn't remotely the case. 

That would be new, additional income. 

The Club would continue to be funded precisely as it currently is through, but not limited to:

Season Ticket sales

Gate Receipts

Sponsorship and commercial activities

Prize money

Transfer activity 

It should also be noted that not currently making a pledge to TfE doesn't constitute a lack of support for the model they are proposing. 

Additionally, the Club won't be fan run but fan owned. Or at least no more fan run than it currently is. 

The Club will be run by a Board of Directors who will be appointed to the Board on the basis of their skill set. Precisely what happens now. 

So in summary, a TfE owned Thistle would be funded precisely as it currently is. The operational Board of Directors would be appointed precisely as they currently are. 

The difference lies in who would own the Club. 

That would be the fans of Partick Thistle Football Club. You and me. 

It's a model not without its challenges  but it is a safeguard against our club being vulnerable to the predatory instincts of an individual or individuals for whom the success of the team on the park may not be their number one priority. Or a priority at all. 

It's a challenge as I've said but for me an exciting one and one a hell of a more preferable to some of what has been suggested over the last few months. 

Finally, just for the benefit of doubt I have no connection with TfE aside from having made a modest monthly pledge. 

Sanity at last!!!

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1 hour ago, admin said:

There is a lot of misleading information being posted on here re TfE. Personally I'd like to see TfE be a little more proactive in addressing that but in absence of that here goes. 

There is an implied suggestion that Thistle would be funded by the pledges. 

That isn't remotely the case. 

That would be new, additional income. 

The Club would continue to be funded precisely as it currently is through, but not limited to:

Season Ticket sales

Gate Receipts

Sponsorship and commercial activities

Prize money

Transfer activity 

It should also be noted that not currently making a pledge to TfE doesn't constitute a lack of support for the model they are proposing. 

Additionally, the Club won't be fan run but fan owned. Or at least no more fan run than it currently is. 

The Club will be run by a Board of Directors who will be appointed to the Board on the basis of their skill set. Precisely what happens now. 

So in summary, a TfE owned Thistle would be funded precisely as it currently is. The operational Board of Directors would be appointed precisely as they currently are. 

The difference lies in who would own the Club. 

That would be the fans of Partick Thistle Football Club. You and me. 

It's a model not without its challenges  but it is a safeguard against our club being vulnerable to the predatory instincts of an individual or individuals for whom the success of the team on the park may not be their number one priority. Or a priority at all. 

It's a challenge as I've said but for me an exciting one and one a hell of a more preferable to some of what has been suggested over the last few months. 

Finally, just for the benefit of doubt I have no connection with TfE aside from having made a modest monthly pledge. 

I think the only point I don’t agree with is who is included in the ownership. I understood that it would be supporters who made a pledge plus however Colin Weir wants to give ownership to. I haven’t made a pledge so as it stands, I don’t think I would be part of the fan ownership. 

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1 hour ago, admin said:

There is a lot of misleading information being posted on here re TfE. Personally I'd like to see TfE be a little more proactive in addressing that but in absence of that here goes. 

There is an implied suggestion that Thistle would be funded by the pledges. 

That isn't remotely the case. 

That would be new, additional income. 

The Club would continue to be funded precisely as it currently is through, but not limited to:

Season Ticket sales

Gate Receipts

Sponsorship and commercial activities

Prize money

Transfer activity 

It should also be noted that not currently making a pledge to TfE doesn't constitute a lack of support for the model they are proposing. 

Additionally, the Club won't be fan run but fan owned. Or at least no more fan run than it currently is. 

The Club will be run by a Board of Directors who will be appointed to the Board on the basis of their skill set. Precisely what happens now. 

So in summary, a TfE owned Thistle would be funded precisely as it currently is. The operational Board of Directors would be appointed precisely as they currently are. 

The difference lies in who would own the Club. 

That would be the fans of Partick Thistle Football Club. You and me. 

It's a model not without its challenges  but it is a safeguard against our club being vulnerable to the predatory instincts of an individual or individuals for whom the success of the team on the park may not be their number one priority. Or a priority at all. 

It's a challenge as I've said but for me an exciting one and one a hell of a more preferable to some of what has been suggested over the last few months. 

Finally, just for the benefit of doubt I have no connection with TfE aside from having made a modest monthly pledge. 

What admin has written is a summation of the basic understanding of the TfE bid as he sees it, coincidently it is the same [or very similar] as my understanding of what TfE will bring to the club. I would not be surprised if it was the same understanding as many of the people who occasionally read the comments on this forum.

Can we try to curtail the sort of aggressive verbal jousting that is creeping into the dialogue on this subject …. we are all on the same side remember.

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44 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

So can you explain the very strange scenario where the Current Board couldnt get in Contact with Colin Weir but TFE managed to not only get in Touch but secured £10MN + of Funding without any Conditions - dont you find that a bit strange 

Also its the TFE Model they are in the driving seat - they are deciding how the Club will operate going forward - as for the "appiontees" to the Board -  how do you know it will be exactly as it is at present - in fact it will be very very  different - do you believe for one second that Business People of the Calibre of Billy Allan - Norman - David Beattie - Ronnie - Greig Brown would remotely in any shape or form go in front of a Board of Fan Reps to be vetted - NO CHANCE - therefore you have already  pushed down the standards before a Ball is kicked 

As for Finances - Directors Chip in or we dont balance the books - therefore its pretty much going to Colin Weir Funding - so what happens when we hit cashflow problems which has occurred on many occassions - are the Elected Board Chipping in - The Operations Board ? 

As for TFE - they are seriously going to take over the Running of the Club - based on what - if it was popular they would have more than 263 Pledges - look at St Mirren - Falkirk Support Fan Ownership Runs into Thousands - TFE have mustered 263 - tells you everything you need to know 

Meet the New NW Bus - but this time they want to take over the Club - scary scary thought    

Good grief. 

Can I explain that scenario? No and I've zero idea why you are asking me to. To repeat I've no connection to TfE. Where is the figure of £10million coming from? Colin Weir is funding the purchase of shares is he not? Is that costing £10million?

The fan Board will surely drive what the Operating Board will do? The notion that the owners of a football club would set the direction of that football really isn't that radical is it. 

Thd composition of the Board may change but how the Board is appointed will remain precisely as it is now. Personally I'd like to see continuity and with the interim operational board comprising mostly of the present BoD for a fixed period. 

The issue of attracting additional funding  is one of the challenges of this model. Nobody is suggesting it will be all sunshine and flowers but what happens if we hit a cash flow problem now? Why would how that problem be addressed differ under fan ownership than the current situation? I would hope that the operational board would include individual(s) tasked with finding differing revenue streams. Would that not mirror what happens at clubs now? 

The fans, or TfE (which  is just the mechanism by which fan ownership happens)  if your prefer won't be running the Club. This is the most common misapprehension. The fans  (TfE) will own the club. The operational Board will run the club. It differs little from most other models in other than who the owners are. 

Pledges don't equate to support. IMO TfE need to be more proactive in chasing pledges though. It could be a good, new and additional source of income. 

The final comment just underlines what has blighted much of this thread and which laughably could be called a 'debate'. Too many people blinded by past slights and personality clashes to judge things on their merits and on a perceived view of who will be involved. You are attacking the composition of the fan board before their is even a change in ownership far less the need for an elected fan board. 

Personally I've no desire to see a fan board dominated by any one group but the trick to avoid that happening is to actively participate.

Fan ownership is a challenge, anyone that tells you otherwise is trying to sell you something but it is a great opportunity to put the fans front and centre of the future of Partick Thistle. It's an opportunity that we, the lifeblood of our club, should IMO be grabbing with both hands. 

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6 minutes ago, Lenziejag said:

I think the only point I don’t agree with is who is included in the ownership. I understood that it would be supporters who made a pledge plus however Colin Weir wants to give ownership to. I haven’t made a pledge so as it stands, I don’t think I would be part of the fan ownership. 

I don’t think that’s correct ...in other cases fans have the opportunity to get involved once it’s confirmed 

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1 hour ago, admin said:

There is a lot of misleading information being posted on here re TfE. Personally I'd like to see TfE be a little more proactive in addressing that but in absence of that here goes. 

There is an implied suggestion that Thistle would be funded by the pledges. 

That isn't remotely the case. 

That would be new, additional income. 

The Club would continue to be funded precisely as it currently is through, but not limited to:

Season Ticket sales

Gate Receipts

Sponsorship and commercial activities

Prize money

Transfer activity 

It should also be noted that not currently making a pledge to TfE doesn't constitute a lack of support for the model they are proposing. 

Additionally, the Club won't be fan run but fan owned. Or at least no more fan run than it currently is. 

The Club will be run by a Board of Directors who will be appointed to the Board on the basis of their skill set. Precisely what happens now. 

So in summary, a TfE owned Thistle would be funded precisely as it currently is. The operational Board of Directors would be appointed precisely as they currently are. 

The difference lies in who would own the Club. 

That would be the fans of Partick Thistle Football Club. You and me. 

It's a model not without its challenges  but it is a safeguard against our club being vulnerable to the predatory instincts of an individual or individuals for whom the success of the team on the park may not be their number one priority. Or a priority at all. 

It's a challenge as I've said but for me an exciting one and one a hell of a more preferable to some of what has been suggested over the last few months. 

Finally, just for the benefit of doubt I have no connection with TfE aside from having made a modest monthly pledge. 

Even as an poor old pensioner this could induce me to increase my pledge. Brilliant stuff admin  - could you now explain brexit to an auld yin who is ready for the farm for the seriously bewildered

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44 minutes ago, dl1971 said:

I blinked and missed the last few pages. Is Colin Weir pumping 10m into PTFC? Wow if true....

Well JJ seems to think it’s between 10-12m. Be good if he gave an explanation as to how he came to that figure unless he thinks Colin Weir is going to build the training ground and gift that as well

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If the sellers are in line to receive £10m cumulatively for their shares (I appreciate a Propco buy-out has also been mooted), then I struggle to believe that *any* of them have made a loss.

Btw...I'd expect *every* potential board member to be vetted, regardless of their apparent credentials or whoever owns the club.

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17 minutes ago, sandy said:

All you do is pass childish remarks mate. Just cos I happen to agree with JJ I’m somehow his ‘groupie’? Dearly me

I’ve asked you before privately and publicly .... can you just leave me alone ? If not take your bullying approach to someone else 

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