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Message added by douglas clark

'Tis not the job of a moderator to stop people writing here. The rules are pretty simple:

reported ad hominem attacks will be investigated (and if found to be true) or write stuff that could get the site into trouble

and you'll either be warned / your post deleted, or - worst case scenario -  banned either temporarily or permanently.

This particular thread has had a vigorous exchange of views, and perhaps more heat than light. But the quality of the debate - it seems to me at least - is down to the lack of information.  That, in and of itself, means that whatever side you happen to be on is for a fan, very frustrating.

So, I have no intention of closing threads just because the quality of the postings isn't great. That is not the role of a moderator.

If you wake up the following morning you can always delete something you wish you'd never said.

 

 

 

 

 

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14 minutes ago, javeajag said:

If Colin weir is going to invest £10m into the club am I too excited about the exact details of the ownership structure ? Not really 

You should be to ensure proper governance over those who make the operational decisions. Something that is possible if TfE get control, but not if there is a private buyer.

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22 minutes ago, javeajag said:

If Colin weir is going to invest £10m into the club am I too excited about the exact details of the ownership structure ? Not really 

I'm always wary of repeating figures where there is nothing substantive to support them. 

What tends to happen in these circumstances is one person provides a figure based on guesswork. That figure is repeated so often it becomes a 'fact' simply through that repetition. 

I find the reaction to Colin Weir and his financial relationship with Thistle interesting. 

In some quarters we've gone from almost forensic examination to determine whether he was funding the Club on an 'ongoing' basis to then downplaying his investment - 'we aren't losing his money, the academy and training ground are separate and we haven' t loss anything' - when he withdrew his funding after the Boardroom coup. 

We're now back at him funding the Club and to an oft quoted, but unsubstantiated, figure of £10million. 

My understanding, which may not be 100% accurate, is that he has provided the funds to TfE to purchase the shares. The funding of the Academy will continue with the bespoke training facility, which the Club will rent, back on the drawing table. 

That all sounds positive to me. Certainly more positive that a consortium that understandably want a return on their investment. Success on the pitch perhaps being incidental to that return. 

I've never met Colin Weir but his motives certainly sound more altruistic than something to be feared. Is the hostility to him in some quarters simply because of his relationship with Jacqui Low? If so then analysis is being driven by personalty rather than substance again. 

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1 minute ago, admin said:

I'm always wary of repeating figures where there is nothing substantive to support them. 

What tends to happen in these circumstances is one person provides a figure based on guesswork. That figure is repeated so often it becomes a 'fact' simply through that repetition. 

I find the reaction to Colin Weir and his financial relationship with Thistle interesting. 

In some quarters we've gone from almost forensic examination to determine whether he was funding the Club on an 'ongoing' basis to then downplaying his investment - 'we aren't losing his money, the academy and training ground are separate and we haven' t loss anything' - when he withdrew his funding after the Boardroom coup. 

We're now back at him funding the Club and to an oft quoted, but unsubstantiated, figure of £10million. 

My understanding, which may not be 100% accurate, is that he has provided the funds to TfE to purchase the shares. The funding of the Academy will continue with the bespoke training facility, which the Club will rent, back on the drawing table. 

That all sounds positive to me. Certainly more positive that a consortium that understandably want a return on their investment. Success on the pitch perhaps being incidental to that return. 

I've never met Colin Weir but his motives certainly sound more altruistic than something to be feared. Is the hostility to him in some quarters simply because of his relationship with Jacqui Low? If so then analysis is being driven by personalty rather than sunstance again. 

Can’t argue with that 

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13 minutes ago, admin said:

I'm always wary of repeating figures where there is nothing substantive to support them. 

What tends to happen in these circumstances is one person provides a figure based on guesswork. That figure is repeated so often it becomes a 'fact' simply through that repetition. 

I find the reaction to Colin Weir and his financial relationship with Thistle interesting. 

In some quarters we've gone from almost forensic examination to determine whether he was funding the Club on an 'ongoing' basis to then downplaying his investment - 'we aren't losing his money, the academy and training ground are separate and we haven' t loss anything' - when he withdrew his funding after the Boardroom coup. 

We're now back at him funding the Club and to an oft quoted, but unsubstantiated, figure of £10million. 

My understanding, which may not be 100% accurate, is that he has provided the funds to TfE to purchase the shares. The funding of the Academy will continue with the bespoke training facility, which the Club will rent, back on the drawing table. 

That all sounds positive to me. Certainly more positive that a consortium that understandably want a return on their investment. Success on the pitch perhaps being incidental to that return. 

I've never met Colin Weir but his motives certainly sound more altruistic than something to be feared. Is the hostility to him in some quarters simply because of his relationship with Jacqui Low? If so then analysis is being driven by personalty rather than substance again. 

The important point that many have failed to grasp is that this is not new money into PTFC. It is money to buy out the shareholders and the propco owners plus restoring finance to the academy and training ground. It is not £10m to suddenly spend on a new striker.

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11 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said:

The important point that many have failed to grasp is that this is not new money into PTFC. It is money to buy out the shareholders and the propco owners plus restoring finance to the academy and training ground. It is not £10m to suddenly spend on a new striker.

Agreed but positive nonetheless 

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21 minutes ago, allyo said:

Admin, it seems to me that you've hit the nail on the head again

Really. The part about J Low is , imo, nonsense. It looks as if he took the huff because she was binned. She was a disaster for Thistle, and by the looks of it Weir was perfectly happy for her to carry on being a disaster and subsequently the direction we were heading. And that direction wasnt good.

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1 hour ago, javeajag said:

If Colin weir is going to invest £10m into the club am I too excited about the exact details of the ownership structure ? Not really 

So. You will accept the money from Colin Weir on the terms you have stated, but are vehemently opposed to the Consortium because you dont know the structure. Wow! Astounding hypocrisy.

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19 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said:

The important point that many have failed to grasp is that this is not new money into PTFC. It is money to buy out the shareholders and the propco owners plus restoring finance to the academy and training ground. It is not £10m to suddenly spend on a new striker.

Agreed and every time the figure of £10million is quoted people should make reference to this. 

Whether through intent or not it is misleading to suggest, even inadvertently,  that Colin Weir is providing new funds to the Club. 

So just as a brief summary if the TfE purchase of shares is concluded the following would be the case:

The Club would continue to be funded as it currently is. 

The pledges, which current stand at £50,000pa represents new, additional income. 

Members of the Club Board would be appointed precisely as members of the BoD are currently appointed. 

After the purchase of shares has been concluded Colin Weir's financial relationship with the Club returns to what it was pre Boardroom coup. 

Things that will change:

The ownership of Partick Thistle. The Club would now be owned by the supporters of Partick Thistle Football Club. 

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34 minutes ago, Garscube Road End said:

So. You will accept the money from Colin Weir on the terms you have stated, but are vehemently opposed to the Consortium because you dont know the structure. Wow! Astounding hypocrisy.

Where did I say I didn’t like the structure of the consortium ? They don’t have a structure as such they are venture capitalists they hate structure !! I just don’t want a bunch of vulture capitalists to own the club 

i have no idea the terms Colin weir is supporting the bid for the club .... do you ? 

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4 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

They are not putting themselves up as "the Voice of the Fans "  

To be fair Jim though if Chien Lee or Paul Conway appoint themselves as chairman, chief executive etc at PTFC then fans would be entitled to know how they worked this. Did they intend being at Firhill once a season and the rest of the time being based in the USA or Barnsley etc

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1 minute ago, Third Lanark said:

To be fair Jim though if Chien Lee or Paul Conway appoint themselves as chairman, chief executive etc at PTFC then fans would be entitled to know how they worked this. Did they intend being at Firhill once a season and the rest of the time being based in the USA or Barnsley etc

The rumour in Barnsley is that lee and conway have fallen out - Lee hasn’t been seen or heard of there for mobths - and Alan Nixon reported only Conway was involved in buying us ..... I think we are due to get Robert Zuk the Barnsley finance guy as our chairman 

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7 minutes ago, javeajag said:

The rumour in Barnsley is that lee and conway have fallen out - Lee hasn’t been seen or heard of there for mobths - and Alan Nixon reported only Conway was involved in buying us ..... I think we are due to get Robert Zuk the Barnsley finance guy as our chairman 

Not Zuk ... Yuck :puke:

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57 minutes ago, Garscube Road End said:

Really. The part about J Low is , imo, nonsense. It looks as if he took the huff because she was binned. She was a disaster for Thistle, and by the looks of it Weir was perfectly happy for her to carry on being a disaster and subsequently the direction we were heading. And that direction wasnt good.

Jacqui Low got a hell of a lot wrong, there's no denying this. However, it seems like rumours of financial mismanagement hinted at by certain people, and alluded to pointedly by the Jags Trust when outlining its reasons for supporting her removal, were greatly exaggerated. 

As I've said before, Norman Springford is on record assaying he had no issue with the way the previous board was running the club, but viewed their removal as a necessary step to facilitate the sale of the club to Paul Conway and co. He also stated that he was unaware of the statement dated 11 July saying that "existing investors had raised concerns about the direction of the club" and that he wouldn't have signed it off.

Perhaps it's the kind of chicanery evident here that led Colin Weir to behave the way he did.

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1 hour ago, admin said:

I'm always wary of repeating figures where there is nothing substantive to support them. 

What tends to happen in these circumstances is one person provides a figure based on guesswork. That figure is repeated so often it becomes a 'fact' simply through that repetition. 

I find the reaction to Colin Weir and his financial relationship with Thistle interesting. 

In some quarters we've gone from almost forensic examination to determine whether he was funding the Club on an 'ongoing' basis to then downplaying his investment - 'we aren't losing his money, the academy and training ground are separate and we haven' t loss anything' - when he withdrew his funding after the Boardroom coup. 

We're now back at him funding the Club and to an oft quoted, but unsubstantiated, figure of £10million. 

My understanding, which may not be 100% accurate, is that he has provided the funds to TfE to purchase the shares. The funding of the Academy will continue with the bespoke training facility, which the Club will rent, back on the drawing table. 

That all sounds positive to me. Certainly more positive that a consortium that understandably want a return on their investment. Success on the pitch perhaps being incidental to that return. 

I've never met Colin Weir but his motives certainly sound more altruistic than something to be feared. Is the hostility to him in some quarters simply because of his relationship with Jacqui Low? If so then analysis is being driven by personalty rather than substance again. 

I agree it all sounds positive, TFE have also stated that JLow is not interested in returning in any capacity.

I cant see in the TFE site where they say the training ground will be back on, they say Colin Weir will continue to fund the Acadamy but no mention i can see of the training ground project being  back on.  The training ground however was always to be owned by TBC not PTFC and so if it was back on would not be  part of the TFE pledges.

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1 hour ago, Garscube Road End said:

Really. The part about J Low is , imo, nonsense. It looks as if he took the huff because she was binned. She was a disaster for Thistle, and by the looks of it Weir was perfectly happy for her to carry on being a disaster and subsequently the direction we were heading. And that direction wasnt good.

It's never how I've seen it to be honest. 

From my point of view, if I was  millionaire investing in my football club, and it then looked like it was going to be sold to billionaires, I would withdraw my funding. To me, that is a logical and reasonable decision.

I have no idea whether his decision had anything to do with Jacqui Low. Maybe it did, but I think there was justification anyway. And it's his money.

 

 

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1 hour ago, jaggymct said:

I agree it all sounds positive, TFE have also stated that JLow is not interested in returning in any capacity.

I cant see in the TFE site where they say the training ground will be back on, they say Colin Weir will continue to fund the Acadamy but no mention i can see of the training ground project being  back on.  The training ground however was always to be owned by TBC not PTFC and so if it was back on would not be  part of the TFE pledges.

As far as I know, it's only JJ who has told us that the academy and training ground funding by Colin Weir would be back on.

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26 minutes ago, allyo said:

As far as I know, it's only JJ who has told us that the academy and training ground funding by Colin Weir would be back on.

The Evening Times article of October 19th suggested that funding for the Academy would continue under a TfE led takeover with the Training Ground project, which, as has been rightly pointed out; is a TBC venture, back on the drawing board. 

That may be just guesswork from the ET but if accurate then the Club's relationship with Colin Weir would be back to what it was prior to the Boardroom coup. 

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4 hours ago, admin said:

I'm always wary of repeating figures where there is nothing substantive to support them. 

What tends to happen in these circumstances is one person provides a figure based on guesswork. That figure is repeated so often it becomes a 'fact' simply through that repetition. 

I find the reaction to Colin Weir and his financial relationship with Thistle interesting. 

In some quarters we've gone from almost forensic examination to determine whether he was funding the Club on an 'ongoing' basis to then downplaying his investment - 'we aren't losing his money, the academy and training ground are separate and we haven' t loss anything' - when he withdrew his funding after the Boardroom coup. 

We're now back at him funding the Club and to an oft quoted, but unsubstantiated, figure of £10million. 

My understanding, which may not be 100% accurate, is that he has provided the funds to TfE to purchase the shares. The funding of the Academy will continue with the bespoke training facility, which the Club will rent, back on the drawing table. 

That all sounds positive to me. Certainly more positive that a consortium that understandably want a return on their investment. Success on the pitch perhaps being incidental to that return. 

I've never met Colin Weir but his motives certainly sound more altruistic than something to be feared. Is the hostility to him in some quarters simply because of his relationship with Jacqui Low? If so then analysis is being driven by personalty rather than substance again. 

Agreed entirely.

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3 hours ago, Garscube Road End said:

Really. The part about J Low is , imo, nonsense. It looks as if he took the huff because she was binned. She was a disaster for Thistle, and by the looks of it Weir was perfectly happy for her to carry on being a disaster and subsequently the direction we were heading. And that direction wasnt good.

So your solution would be? Reject  the Weir largesse? 

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2 hours ago, allyo said:

 

It's never how I've seen it to be honest. 

From my point of view, if I was  millionaire investing in my football club, and it then looked like it was going to be sold to billionaires, I would withdraw my funding. To me, that is a logical and reasonable decision.

I have no idea whether his decision had anything to do with Jacqui Low. Maybe it did, but I think there was justification anyway. And it's his money.

 

 

And there's a big point. It's his money. He can pull it at anytime and expect it back. Could a club like Thistle cope with that unsustainability?

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4 minutes ago, Garscube Road End said:

And there's a big point. It's his money. He can pull it at anytime and expect it back. Could a club like Thistle cope with that unsustainability?

He's gifting the amount necessary to buy the shares and the portion of PropCo that isn't owned by the club, as I understand it. He isn't bankrolling the club. What is it you're afraid he'll pull?

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4 hours ago, admin said:

Agreed and every time the figure of £10million is quoted people should make reference to this. 

Whether through intent or not it is misleading to suggest, even inadvertently,  that Colin Weir is providing new funds to the Club. 

So just as a brief summary if the TfE purchase of shares is concluded the following would be the case:

The Club would continue to be funded as it currently is. 

The pledges, which current stand at £50,000pa represents new, additional income. 

Members of the Club Board would be appointed precisely as members of the BoD are currently appointed. 

After the purchase of shares has been concluded Colin Weir's financial relationship with the Club returns to what it was pre Boardroom coup. 

Things that will change:

The ownership of Partick Thistle. The Club would now be owned by the supporters of Partick Thistle Football Club. 

I think it also important to point out that whatever we think is irrelevant.  At the end of the day all that matters is whether enough of the current shareholders decide they want to sell to one side or the other, or even someone else. Whether that is for financial gain or for the good of Thistle (or both) is their decision 

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