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douglas clark

'Tis not the job of a moderator to stop people writing here. The rules are pretty simple:

reported ad hominem attacks will be investigated (and if found to be true) or write stuff that could get the site into trouble

and you'll either be warned / your post deleted, or - worst case scenario -  banned either temporarily or permanently.

This particular thread has had a vigorous exchange of views, and perhaps more heat than light. But the quality of the debate - it seems to me at least - is down to the lack of information.  That, in and of itself, means that whatever side you happen to be on is for a fan, very frustrating.

So, I have no intention of closing threads just because the quality of the postings isn't great. That is not the role of a moderator.

If you wake up the following morning you can always delete something you wish you'd never said.

 

 

 

 

 

Message added by douglas clark

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I am all for this. The club IMO is on the verge of another sleepy period after relegation as has happened each of the last three periods we've dropped out of the top league. There isn't the money or the infrastructure to get us up on our own. If we do somehow go up, it won't be sustained. It was only sustained for a brief period last time out whilst a load of bigger clubs worked their way through some problems and when they all returned refreshed to the top league we got relegated.

I have quite a laid back attitude to it. I see people online who have been very critical of Low and Caldwell suddenly having reservations about this. Well IMO we have suffered enough, and again someone pointed out Hearts, Livi, Dundee etc had questionable ownership, well big ******* deal, they all got into Europe, won cups in some cases and then shafted their creditors in the end anyway or hell in other cases clubs have went bust and its as if it never happened.  Everyone's done it whilst we've played by the rules and still almost ran into serious problems on several occasions needing new investment on the board and a rugby team to bail us out, and here we are again closing stands, cutting back on staff at the club. We're now verging on a generation of PTFC supporters who know us as a lower league club. A skint one as well.

Theres a very low self esteem attitude at PTFC. People treat ambition as a bad word. Years and years of underachievement will do that I suppose.  When did we last take a gamble of any sort?

You've got a team like Killie for instance who are in now in Europe simply on the basis of taking a financial gamble on an outstanding manager. They went from relegation contenders to the best of the rest with that one decision pretty much. Much the same players as the previous manager.

In relative terms to their wealth their investment is going to cost them pennies. 

Theres a core of fans at the club who will take 6th or worse in this league until the end of time because you know "I just want a club to support".  This guy I don't think is going to splash the cash, we're just going to be another part of the system, but hes our best hope in a long time of genuine wealth coming into the club which can propell us to a sustainably higher level. Get rich or die trying I say. I can't take another decade of mediocrity at this level and just sporting an acceptance of existence. 


 

 

 

Edited by avie-man
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1 minute ago, avie-man said:

I am all for this. The club IMO is on the verge of another sleepy period after relegation as has happened each of the last three periods we've dropped out of the top league. There isn't the money or the infrastructure to get us up on our own. If we do somehow go up, it won't be sustained. It was only sustained for a brief period last time out whilst a load of bigger clubs worked their way through some problems and when they all returned refreshed to the top league we got relegated.

I have quite a laid back attitude to it. I see people online who have been very critical of Low and Caldwell suddenly having reservations about this. Well IMO we have suffered enough, and again someone pointed out Hearts, Livi, Dundee etc had questionable ownership, well big ******* deal, they all got into Europe, won cups in some cases and then shafted their creditors in the end anyway or hell in other cases clubs have went bust and its as if it never happened.  Everyone's done it whilst we've played by the rules and still almost ran into serious problems on several occasions needing new investment on the board and a ******* rugby team to bail us out, and here we are again closing stands, cutting back on staff at the club. We're now verging on a generation of PTFC supporters who know us as a lower league club. A skint one as well.

Theres a very low self esteem attitude at PTFC. People treat ambition as a bad word. Years and years of underachievement will do that I suppose.  When did we last take a gamble of any sort?

You've got a team like Killie for instance who are in now in Europe simply on the basis of taking a financial gamble on an outstanding manager. They went from relegation contenders to the best of the rest with that one decision pretty much. Much the same players as the previous manager.

In relative terms to their wealth their investment is going to cost them pennies. 

Theres a core of fans at the club who will take 6th or worse in this league until the end of time because you know "I just want a club to support".  This guy I don't think is going to splash the cash, we're just going to be another part of the system, but hes our best hope in a long time of genuine wealth coming into the club which can propell us to a sustainably higher level. Get rich or die trying I say. I can't take another decade of mediocrity at this level and just sporting an acceptance of existence. 


 

 

 

Out of curiosity is it a case,  for you,  of success justifiying the means of success even at the loss of our club's autonomy? 

Not saying that is wrong. Just trying to get a flavour of where people stand on this. 

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4 hours ago, JAGSMAN1968 said:

Not got a good feeling about all this! Just remembering what happened at Hearts, Livingstone, Dundee and Gretna. Didn't turn out well for them.

What happened ? 2 if those 4 are currently in the premiership, one having competed in this season’s cup final. And these teams were owned by one person not a consortium. I don’t think it is the same at all.

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In all fairness Barnsley have been signing promising young players and selling them on for a profit.. not absolutely throwing money at the team buy keeping a decent Balance about them .. if they are anythhing to go by then fingers crossed.

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20 minutes ago, admin said:

Out of curiosity is it a case,  for you,  of success justifiying the means of success even at the loss of our club's autonomy? 

Not saying that is wrong. Just trying to get a flavour of where people stand on this. 

At this point I don't care. Success at all costs. Don't care about the trust, or people on the board being fans or having a connection to the club. Thats an old firm way of thinking thats crept into Thistle a lot when if it isn't someone who we deem as being one of us we chastise them with an incredible amount of paranoia, Caldwell has been going through that since the day he got the job. We won't get rid of managers or players or people with a connection to the club because they've served us well. Club needs to be a lot more ruthless. Again, like Kilmarnock, we sat with our finger up our arse with Archie and they binned Lee McCulloch and got Clarke in. Kilmarnock should not really be much bigger if at all than Thistle yet in the last 25 years they've not been relegated, been in Europe umpteen times, beaten the old firm more than I care to remember, won two cups, several high finishes etc, and guess what they've run up a lot of debt as well at several points, but success will never come for free, it hasn't for any provincial club anywhere, and look how many managers Killie went through in the time we were in the top league. Lots, because they have a fanbase with higher expectations whilst we were largely just greatful to be in that league. Thats what years of suffering in the lower leagues has done to us, the slightest improvement and we get nose bleeds and misty eyed.

Edited by avie-man

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6 minutes ago, avie-man said:

At this point I don't care. Success at all costs. Don't care about the trust, or people on the board being fans or having a connection to the club. Thats an old firm way of thinking thats crept into Thistle a lot when if it isn't someone who we deem as being one of us we chastise them with an incredible amount of paranoia, Caldwell has been going through that since the day he got the job. We won't get rid of managers or players or people with a connection to the club because they've served us well. Club needs to be a lot more ruthless. Again, like Kilmarnock, we sat with our finger up our arse with Archie and they binned Lee McCulloch and got Clarke in. Kilmarnock should not really be much bigger if at all than Thistle yet in the last 25 years they've not been relegated, been in Europe umpteen times, beaten the old firm more than I care to remember, won two cups, several high finishes etc, and guess what they've run up a lot of debt as well at several points, but success will never come for free, it hasn't for any provincial club anywhere, and look how many managers Killie went through in the time we were in the top league. Lots, because they have a fanbase with higher expectations whilst we were largely just greatful to be in that league. Thats what years of suffering in the lower leagues has done to us, the slightest improvement and we get nose bleeds and misty eyed.

Fair dos. Thanks for the reply. 

Me I wouldn't jeopardise the long term future of the Club for short term gain. 

I've  no interest in the background of the Club's owners providing they have the best interests of my club at heart. That's not what I mean by autonomy. 

I can't see the attraction in Thistle to a consortium headed by billionaire. Unless we are part of a wider strategy involving other clubs. In that case our success, or otherwise, could be influenced by events at those other clubs. Then we cease to be an autonomous football club. For me that wouldn't be Partick Thistle. I love this club but couldn't sacrifice that for the sake of a trophy despite the fact that I've spent over 40 years craving that kind of success. 

 

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2 minutes ago, admin said:

Fair dos. Thanks for the reply. 

Me I wouldn't jeopardise the long term future of the Club for short term gain. 

I've  no interest in the background of the Club's owners providing they have the best interests of my club at heart. That's not what I mean by autonomy. 

I can't see the attraction in Thistle to a consortium headed by billionaire. Unless we are part of a wider strategy involving other clubs. In that case our success, or otherwise, could be influenced by events at those other clubs. Then we cease to be an autonomous football club. For me that wouldn't be Partick Thistle. I love this club but couldn't sacrifice that for the sake of a trophy despite the fact that I've spent over 40 years craving that kind of success. 

 

The only way you can judge it is by how other clubs these people own.. Barnsley seem to be on the up.

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30 minutes ago, admin said:

I'm sorry and I don't mean to be cheeky but I struggle to follow the flow of your posts at times. 

For clarity are you saying that there are Thistle fans  involved, in some way, with the consortium and that you know who they are and have had communication with them? 

Apologises if I've picked that up incorrectly. 

If whats being stated is correct-  then to get a majority they would have to get the nine major Shareholders with circa 6% to act in concert - Im led to believe that this may be the case ( although nothing concrete that I can say 100% ) so have I spoken to ex Directors who form part of that block - Yes - have I spoken to them recently - No - Im I in touch with the supposed Consortium - No -Im I spreading rumours in there behalf - No  

 Im not convinced its an outright Sale to the Barnsley Owner either - the fact that the Words Consortium keep get used- would indicate a wider ownership model - for the record others used this Word - not me - Im assuming that they know more than they are letting on and playing daft 

Hope that clarifies things and saves personal accusations 

 

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57 minutes ago, Dark Passenger said:

I didn't give a reason. I said their departure coincided with our relegation. It did.

those that led us to relegation disappeared like sh*t off a shovel.  - thats not quite what you implied ? 

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8 minutes ago, admin said:

Fair dos. Thanks for the reply. 

Me I wouldn't jeopardise the long term future of the Club for short term gain. 

I've  no interest in the background of the Club's owners providing they have the best interests of my club at heart. That's not what I mean by autonomy. 

I can't see the attraction in Thistle to a consortium headed by billionaire. Unless we are part of a wider strategy involving other clubs. In that case our success, or otherwise, could be influenced by events at those other clubs. Then we cease to be an autonomous football club. For me that wouldn't be Partick Thistle. I love this club but couldn't sacrifice that for the sake of a trophy despite the fact that I've spent over 40 years craving that kind of success. 

 

What long term future - exactly where are we going with the current set up ?   

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11 hours ago, a f kincaid said:

Anyone remember Buster Bloodvessel?

You shoudn't mention him. That's just Bad Manners.

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The current board is weak, ineffective and not particularly inspiring why people are defending them is beyond me 

not one of them own a single share in the club

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12 minutes ago, policemans whistle said:

If this is true and we are expecting large amounts of cash thrown at us, why are we signing championship players on two year deals?

 

I think if you read previous statements from the owners they don't do throwing money, it is all about developing young players and selling them on.

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29 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

If whats being stated is correct-  then to get a majority they would have to get the nine major Shareholders with circa 6% to act in concert - Im led to believe that this may be the case ( although nothing concrete that I can say 100% ) so have I spoken to ex Directors who form part of that block - Yes - have I spoken to them recently - No - Im I in touch with the supposed Consortium - No -Im I spreading rumours in there behalf - No  

 Im not convinced its an outright Sale to the Barnsley Owner either - the fact that the Words Consortium keep get used- would indicate a wider ownership model - for the record others used this Word - not me - Im assuming that they know more than they are letting on and playing daft 

Hope that clarifies things and saves personal accusations 

 

I'm still a bit confused to be honest. 

You were requesting a statement from the club earlier today re the rumours stating that they could be quashed with a simple denial. 

It would seem now that you knew something was happening and knew that there could be no denial. 

Why not just say that? Why the smoke and mirrors approach? 

I've concerns right now about three, separate but still interconnected, things. 

1. Is the proposed takeover in the best interests of Partick Thistle?

2. How the rumours came into the public domain? Who are The Daily Mail's sources and who contacted who? If the approach came from the consortium then what was the objective in doing so? 

3. Are the Thistle people involved in the takeover motivated by this being a good deal for the Club or a desire to see change within the current BoD? If the former, then great. If the latter then that worries me. 

Taking your post at face value then I appreciate that you are no better placed to answer those concerns than the next man. However, you said either on here or elsewhere that the Club had a 'duty' to respond to these rumours. Is there not a duty of the Thistle people involved to communicate their intentions? That might help address concerns like mine detailed above. 

This could be an exciting new dawn for our club but right now something stinks and I'm worried about how things are being communicated. 

 

 

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42 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

What long term future - exactly where are we going with the current set up ?   

The performance of the current BoD isn't reason, on its own, to jump into bed with the first suitor that comes along. 

Hopefully the Thistle people involved with the consortium have become involved because of something much more substantive than a desire to see change. 

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1 minute ago, admin said:

I'm still a bit confused to be honest. 

You were requesting a statement from the club earlier today re the rumours stating that they could be quashed with a simple denial. 

It would seem now that you knew something was happening and knew that there could be no denial. 

Why not just say that? Why the smoke and mirrors approach? 

I've concerns right now about three, separate but still interconnected, things. 

1. Is the proposed takeover in the best interests of Partick Thistle? - only time will tell ? I would ask if the status quo is in the best interests of the Club  

2. How the rumours came into the public domain? Who are The Daily Mail's sources and who contacted who? If the approach came from the consortium then what was the objective in doing so? - Given that there would be at least 9 potential shareholders involved plus Im assuming Club would be contacted then its  unlikely this would remain a secret - so I think your reading too much into it - when I asked for a statement although I had been told from a decent source it was still  very sketchy 

3. Are the Thistle people involved in the takeover motivated by this being a good deal for the Club or a desire to see change within the current BoD? If the former, then great. If the latter then that worries me.  - I would say that if what Im being told is correct they are acting what they see as the best interests of the Club - its quite a wide spectrum  to get Nine former Directors ( Im assuming ) to sign up ? all of them Jags Fans  

Taking your post at face value then I appreciate that you are no better placed to answer those concerns than the next man. However, you said either on here or elsewhere that the Club had a 'duty' to respond to these rumours. Is there not a duty of the Thistle people involved to communicate their intentions? That might help address concerns like mine detailed above. - Im assuming that until there would be a formal takeover then anyone involved cant really say anything - the Club could confirm or deny an approach - which would be the correct thing to do  

This could be an exciting new dawn for our club but right now something stinks and I'm worried about how things are being communicated. 

 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, admin said:

The performance of the current BoD isn't reason, on its own, to jump into bed with the first suitor that comes along. 

Hopefully the Thistle people involved with the consortium have become involved because of something much more substantive than a desire to see change. 

So how much do we know about our New Directors ? Pretty much zero - it cuts both ways ? 

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If this were to happen it would be hugely risky. There are plenty examples of failures where clubs have been bought over by wealthy owners with little to no knowledge of the domestic market and go on to crash and burn a few years later.

So it really depends on the strategic plan. New investment, medium to long term horizon, sustainable, genuine interest in Thistle based on knowledge of the Scottish game? Yes please.

Feeder club for Nice and Barnsley, assumptions made about the competitiveness of the Championship, job lots of development squad players on loan? Nope, not for me. That wouldn't be Thistle.

Let's just wait and see. Interesting, but judgement reserved until it actually happens and the plan becomes clearer.

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15 minutes ago, dunnikierjag said:

I think if you read previous statements from the owners they don't do throwing money, it is all about developing young players and selling them on.

If they are sacking Caldwell and bringing in a foreign coach then it doesn’t make sense that these signings are happening or are they paying off players and going to bring in loads of Barnsley players?

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2 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

 

A perfect example of the kind of Spin you so vociferously decry JJ I'm afraid which doesn't really answer any of my questions. 

I'm not going to flog this to death (honestly) but I'll ask again, why ask the club to issue a statement re the rumours when you knew there was substance to the rumours? Why not just say that? 

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5 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

So how much do we know about our New Directors ? Pretty much zero - it cuts both ways ? 

I'm not saying that we need to know everything about new directors or new owners although that kind of level of transparency would be good. 

I'm simply saying that a desire to change ownership of the club doesn't mean that any prospective change is a good thing. 

Right now I don't have anywhere near enough information to even start to formulate an opinion as to the benefits, or otherwise, of this suggested takeover. 

Some clarity would be extremely useful just in case anyone whose reading this can provide any clarity. 

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I don't want to see my Club bracketed with Dundee, Livingston, Hearts, Gretna, Old Rangers etc. If we're not winning cups or qualifying for Europe sobeit. 

Call it the moral high ground for all I care but fans of above mentioned don't get to gloat about their "successes" leading up administration or receivership in my company. And I'm certainly not alone.

 

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5 minutes ago, Third Lanark said:

If they are sacking Caldwell and bringing in a foreign coach then it doesn’t make sense that these signings are happening or are they paying off players and going to bring in loads of Barnsley players?

Reading previous statements made they have large amounts of data on young players from all over the world. I am assuming the only way they will make money out of us is by using us as a feeder club. The problem they may have is getting these young players into the country after Brexit. I look forward to hearing their plans if the takeover happens.

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