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Jag
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Message added by douglas clark

'Tis not the job of a moderator to stop people writing here. The rules are pretty simple:

reported ad hominem attacks will be investigated (and if found to be true) or write stuff that could get the site into trouble

and you'll either be warned / your post deleted, or - worst case scenario -  banned either temporarily or permanently.

This particular thread has had a vigorous exchange of views, and perhaps more heat than light. But the quality of the debate - it seems to me at least - is down to the lack of information.  That, in and of itself, means that whatever side you happen to be on is for a fan, very frustrating.

So, I have no intention of closing threads just because the quality of the postings isn't great. That is not the role of a moderator.

If you wake up the following morning you can always delete something you wish you'd never said.

 

 

 

 

 

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45 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Why is the on the Park Performance anything to do with Beattie - GC had assembled his Squad before  the changes - his Budget was agreed in May - which he spent - he had  a fair chunk of the Squad he chose in January so its his team - full Pre Season 

Whilst the Ownership moves are subject to differeing views - the On the Park Performance is down to the Manager - No one else

I was talking about the takeover. Maybe if you read posts rather than t auto replying you'd stop going around in circles?

The takeover is a busted flush, imo.

Edited by jagfox
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I'd be surprised if GC is on a 2 year rolling contract as it doesn't help either party as it will cost more to remove him and cost more if he was wanting to move on to a better offer. It only really works if Thistle think he is going to be brilliant and want to tie him to the club AND Caldwell thinks he is going to be a failure and need the job security. While the first is possible, I still think that GC is ambitious. 

More likely is  a fixed term 2 year contract with an optional 1 year rolling contract guaranteed depending on performance.

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10 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said:

I'd be surprised if GC is on a 2 year rolling contract as it doesn't help either party as it will cost more to remove him and cost more if he was wanting to move on to a better offer. It only really works if Thistle think he is going to be brilliant and want to tie him to the club AND Caldwell thinks he is going to be a failure and need the job security. While the first is possible, I still think that GC is ambitious. 

More likely is  a fixed term 2 year contract with an optional 1 year rolling contract guaranteed depending on performance.

Think you’re right it was a 2 year deal , as was documented at the time , and maybe another 6 - 12 months rolling contract I would expect, whatever way you want to look at it , going to cost us a few quid to get rid of the management team .

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Statement from the Ptfc trust.....time to play won’t get fooled again by the who

 

PTFC Trust Statement - On Behalf of the Supporters Trustees

As promised during our Open Day Presentation, we have continued to push the Chairman to arrange a meeting between the PTFC Trust and members of the Consortium, as previously agreed. This was also in accordance with the promise made to Supporters during the Open Day by the attending members of the PTFC Board. We have formally asked for a meeting, or a timetable for when a meeting could be scheduled for in the near future, 5 times over the past 4 weeks.

We have now unfortunately been made aware by the Chairman that it is likely that any meeting between Supporters/Trustees and the Consortium will not take place until the SFA have dealt with the dual interest issue or when the share transfer has went through.

We fully understand that any ongoing negotiations are confidential and we do not seek to interrupt those in any way, however, we do expect the Supporters to be consulted before any transfer of shares takes place in our Club, as previously agreed by the PTFC Board.

We would ask the Club to reconsider their current stance and look to arrange a meeting between Trustees and the Consortium as soon as possible, before any transfer of shares takes place.

The Supporters Trustees of the PTFC Trust will continue to work in the best interests of the Supporters and of PTFC, per the Trust Deed. Should there be any update on this position we will endeavour to communicate this to supporters.

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30 minutes ago, javeajag said:

Statement from the Ptfc trust.....time to play won’t get fooled again by the who

 

PTFC Trust Statement - On Behalf of the Supporters Trustees

As promised during our Open Day Presentation, we have continued to push the Chairman to arrange a meeting between the PTFC Trust and members of the Consortium, as previously agreed. This was also in accordance with the promise made to Supporters during the Open Day by the attending members of the PTFC Board. We have formally asked for a meeting, or a timetable for when a meeting could be scheduled for in the near future, 5 times over the past 4 weeks.

We have now unfortunately been made aware by the Chairman that it is likely that any meeting between Supporters/Trustees and the Consortium will not take place until the SFA have dealt with the dual interest issue or when the share transfer has went through.

We fully understand that any ongoing negotiations are confidential and we do not seek to interrupt those in any way, however, we do expect the Supporters to be consulted before any transfer of shares takes place in our Club, as previously agreed by the PTFC Board.

We would ask the Club to reconsider their current stance and look to arrange a meeting between Trustees and the Consortium as soon as possible, before any transfer of shares takes place.

The Supporters Trustees of the PTFC Trust will continue to work in the best interests of the Supporters and of PTFC, per the Trust Deed. Should there be any update on this position we will endeavour to communicate this to supporters.

Is the part where I am supposed to be surprised?

At least the Board of the Jags Trust - name them if you can for a bonus point - are full of optimism!

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27 minutes ago, javeajag said:

Statement from the Ptfc trust.....time to play won’t get fooled again by the who

 

PTFC Trust Statement - On Behalf of the Supporters Trustees

As promised during our Open Day Presentation, we have continued to push the Chairman to arrange a meeting between the PTFC Trust and members of the Consortium, as previously agreed. This was also in accordance with the promise made to Supporters during the Open Day by the attending members of the PTFC Board. We have formally asked for a meeting, or a timetable for when a meeting could be scheduled for in the near future, 5 times over the past 4 weeks.

We have now unfortunately been made aware by the Chairman that it is likely that any meeting between Supporters/Trustees and the Consortium will not take place until the SFA have dealt with the dual interest issue or when the share transfer has went through.

We fully understand that any ongoing negotiations are confidential and we do not seek to interrupt those in any way, however, we do expect the Supporters to be consulted before any transfer of shares takes place in our Club, as previously agreed by the PTFC Board.

We would ask the Club to reconsider their current stance and look to arrange a meeting between Trustees and the Consortium as soon as possible, before any transfer of shares takes place.

The Supporters Trustees of the PTFC Trust will continue to work in the best interests of the Supporters and of PTFC, per the Trust Deed. Should there be any update on this position we will endeavour to communicate this to supporters.

As I’ve said before, Beattie and co are running roughshod over our Club , there is obviously a reason why they don’t want dialogue between the Trusts and supporters.

If they want to sell their shares and that’s now out in the open , sell them on to supporters / businesses who have the interests of our Club at heart.

 

 

 

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Clearly the fans trust and shareholding have zero impact on the direction of this takeover. Difficult to see why the trust is there in the first instance if they are essentially powerless. For beattie/board to say they will talk post share transfer is too little too late.

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1 hour ago, jlsarmy said:

As I’ve said before, Beattie and co are running roughshod over our Club , there is obviously a reason why they don’t want dialogue between the Trusts and supporters.

If they want to sell their shares and that’s now out in the open , sell them on to supporters / businesses who have the interests of our Club at heart.

 

 

 

The Consortium have started that they want to Green Light from the SFA & the Shares transferred before a meeting - whilst not great - given the problems they had in the past just getting to this stage thats understandable in a Business Sense

- what Businesses / Supporters want to buy there shares ?  Its all very well saying that but who is going to buy them 

How do you know the New Owners dont have the Club At Heart ? 

Who are these "other" Mythical Thistle Investors ?   

So the bottom line - Consortium want the deal done - then they will talk - thats all  thats happened 

And Given whats gone on for them to get to this stage - I can see why they want things on a tight loop 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, dl1971 said:

Clearly the fans trust and shareholding have zero impact on the direction of this takeover. Difficult to see why the trust is there in the first instance if they are essentially powerless. For beattie/board to say they will talk post share transfer is too little too late.

55% want to sell - thats it -

Too Little too Late for What ? To try and stop the Sale ?  

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16 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

The Consortium have started that they want to Green Light from the SFA & the Shares transferred before a meeting - whilst not great - given the problems they had in the past just getting to this stage thats understandable in a Business Sense

- what Businesses / Supporters want to buy there shares ?  Its all very well saying that but who is going to buy them 

How do you know the New Owners dont have the Club At Heart ? 

Who are these "other" Mythical Thistle Investors ?   

So the bottom line - Consortium want the deal done - then they will talk - thats all  thats happened 

And Given whats gone on for them to get to this stage - I can see why they want things on a tight loop 

 

 

 

 

 

I think you are overlooking the fact that Beattie in a meeting with the PTFC trust promised a meeting before the sale went through as did the directors at the open day

they have now reneged on that 

Not exactly building trust 

 

Edited by javeajag
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21 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

55% want to sell - thats it -

Too Little too Late for What ? To try and stop the Sale ?  

No. I realise the sale will go ahead, but I'm assuming the trust on behalf of the fans would like some detail of the prospective owners plans/rationale/ ideas. Not too much to ask for but apparently it is. 

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This is disappointing, but hardly surprising. If shareholders want to sell their shares that's entirely up to them. A meeting before the sale - and before permission for the sale to go ahead - is unlikely to be an attractive prospect for them. Other shareholders, and non-shareholders, may give them hassle for their intention to sell. What's in it for them in such a meeting? And if the sale doesn't go ahead, they've not only gone through that meeting for no purpose, but they've now got to work with folk who may be less than happy with them.

I get that most people are looking for reassurance about the proposed takeover, but there's no doubt that there's potential for any meeting with fans to become acrimonious.

The fans are unlikely to hear anything until this is resolved one way or another.

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16 minutes ago, Firhillista said:

This is disappointing, but hardly surprising. If shareholders want to sell their shares that's entirely up to them. A meeting before the sale - and before permission for the sale to go ahead - is unlikely to be an attractive prospect for them. Other shareholders, and non-shareholders, may give them hassle for their intention to sell. What's in it for them in such a meeting? And if the sale doesn't go ahead, they've not only gone through that meeting for no purpose, but they've now got to work with folk who may be less than happy with them.

I get that most people are looking for reassurance about the proposed takeover, but there's no doubt that there's potential for any meeting with fans to become acrimonious.

The fans are unlikely to hear anything until this is resolved one way or another.

The cynic in me thinks Beattie just agreed to the meeting so as to not upset anyone at the time but never really intended it to happen

he would have been off refusing it then as now it just makes all suspicious 

why the just don’t put out a statement saying why they think the consortium is good for the club , explaining  their model and plans I really don’t know 

the improvement in communication is yet to materialise 

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52 minutes ago, dl1971 said:

No. I realise the sale will go ahead, but I'm assuming the trust on behalf of the fans would like some detail of the prospective owners plans/rationale/ ideas. Not too much to ask for but apparently it is. 

You seem to be under the misapprehension that the consortium give a damn about the fans/trust

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1 hour ago, javeajag said:

I think you are overlooking the fact that Beattie in a meeting with the PTFC trust promised a meeting before the sale went through as did the directors at the open day

they have now reneged on that 

Not exactly building trust 

 

This may be down to any NDA with the buying party.

Technically and being pedantic here a few things need clarified.

The consortium are not buying the club they are buying 9 peoples share in that club.

The consortium are not buying either the Jagstrusts or Partick Thistle Trusts shares so legally have no need to communicate with either.

The shareholders selling are only dealing with the consortium so any communication outside that will need to be cleared with both parties, both trusts are merely bystanders in this.

This is standard in any proposed takeover when it is merely the controlling interest that is being purchased and not the full company (>75%)

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6 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

This may be down to any NDA with the buying party.

Technically and being pedantic here a few things need clarified.

The consortium are not buying the club they are buying 9 peoples share in that club.

The consortium are not buying either the Jagstrusts or Partick Thistle Trusts shares so legally have no need to communicate with either.

The shareholders selling are only dealing with the consortium so any communication outside that will need to be cleared with both parties, both trusts are merely bystanders in this.

This is standard in any proposed takeover when it is merely the controlling interest that is being purchased and not the full company (>75%)

I do understand all those points but issues of communication in these situations are a matter of choice.

If it was in the NDA why did they promise a meeting ? Twice 

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7 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

This may be down to any NDA with the buying party.

Technically and being pedantic here a few things need clarified.

The consortium are not buying the club they are buying 9 peoples share in that club.

The consortium are not buying either the Jagstrusts or Partick Thistle Trusts shares so legally have no need to communicate with either.

The shareholders selling are only dealing with the consortium so any communication outside that will need to be cleared with both parties, both trusts are merely bystanders in this.

This is standard in any proposed takeover when it is merely the controlling interest that is being purchased and not the full company (>75%)

I am sure all of that is technically correct but why then did the shareholders involved, who I assume would also know this, say they would be happy for meetings to take place?

https://twitter.com/ptfctrust/status/1160288674640277505/photo/1

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Just now, javeajag said:

I do understand all those points but issues of communication in these situations are a matter of choice.

If it was in the NDA why did they promise a meeting ? Twice 

Perhaps they agreed prior to seeking approval from those selling.

Its not a matter of choice it’s a matter of legality based on any contracts, clauses etc

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2 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

The Consortium have started that they want to Green Light from the SFA & the Shares transferred before a meeting - whilst not great - given the problems they had in the past just getting to this stage thats understandable in a Business Sense

- what Businesses / Supporters want to buy there shares ?  Its all very well saying that but who is going to buy them 

How do you know the New Owners dont have the Club At Heart ? 

Who are these "other" Mythical Thistle Investors ?   

So the bottom line - Consortium want the deal done - then they will talk - thats all  thats happened 

And Given whats gone on for them to get to this stage - I can see why they want things on a tight loop 

 

 

 

 

 

JJ , as I’ve said before, your argument falls down with the Club at heart bit , I’m sure Chien Lee , Paul Conway etc were all big Nice , Barnsley and now  PTFC supporters.

The problem I’ve got with this is ,investors go into any business to make money. the reality is when investors  don’t make any return on their money, they look at it in a business sense , time spent on a project, no return on their investment and cut ties and then they move onto their next project. Where does that leave our Club ?

Their templates for their other projects, I can maybe understand, getting Nice to the Champions League ( then selling the Club ) , they’re obviously looking at getting Barnsley to the Premier League with all the riches that go with it and tapping into the Asian market as well .

Don’t see what the attraction is with a Club at our level , turnover of less than £2 million , crowds of 2,500 ,  in my opinion if they can’t make ends meet , they’re gone and we’re left to pick up the pieces .

Surely that shouldn’t be the future of our Club 

 

 

Edited by jlsarmy
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1 hour ago, dl1971 said:

No. I realise the sale will go ahead, but I'm assuming the trust on behalf of the fans would like some detail of the prospective owners plans/rationale/ ideas. Not too much to ask for but apparently it is. 

I think it’s  debatable whether this goes ahead at all

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