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Jag

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douglas clark

'Tis not the job of a moderator to stop people writing here. The rules are pretty simple:

reported ad hominem attacks will be investigated (and if found to be true) or write stuff that could get the site into trouble

and you'll either be warned / your post deleted, or - worst case scenario -  banned either temporarily or permanently.

This particular thread has had a vigorous exchange of views, and perhaps more heat than light. But the quality of the debate - it seems to me at least - is down to the lack of information.  That, in and of itself, means that whatever side you happen to be on is for a fan, very frustrating.

So, I have no intention of closing threads just because the quality of the postings isn't great. That is not the role of a moderator.

If you wake up the following morning you can always delete something you wish you'd never said.

 

 

 

 

 

Message added by douglas clark

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49 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Key difference is There will either be Investors OR a Board in alignment with its Shareholders 

Well since your predicting the future .....lottery numbers ?

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1 hour ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

"There are investors/ sponsors/ businesses who would have been interested in buying shares in the Club if through business circles they had been notified."

- thats the crux of the problem - no there isnt - and if there was - we would have known about them Years ago - so there are two scenarios - they sell to the Consortium - if it falls through they will appoint a New Board from the Fan Base and Im assuming tighter Controls ref Finances Direction etc in place - either of which Im comfortable with - as both are a step forward 

Trouble is JJ , we don’t know if the consortium is a step forward , getting owned by an Investment Company  is a high risk strategy , surely we’re looking more long term in order that we know we’ve got a team to support in hypothetically 10 yrs time 

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1 hour ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

The Shareholders obviously decided that they wanted a change in direction  

Away from football and towards a happy retirement?

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2 hours ago, jlsarmy said:

Trouble is JJ , we don’t know if the consortium is a step forward , getting owned by an Investment Company  is a high risk strategy , surely we’re looking more long term in order that we know we’ve got a team to support in hypothetically 10 yrs time 

As against what - what we had over the last Season ? 

Lets for talking sake and I accept its not fact - but what if the statement regards having a significant budget deficit is true - going by the Transfer Money - rough guess could be £200k - what about the "additional " £300K at Xmas already  agreed - where was that coming from ? 

So Yes there is risk - but at least one I can get my Head Round - No idea what the alternative was 

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14 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

As against what - what we had over the last Season ? 

Lets for talking sake and I accept its not fact - but what if the statement regards having a significant budget deficit is true - going by the Transfer Money - rough guess could be £200k - what about the "additional " £300K at Xmas already  agreed - where was that coming from ? 

So Yes there is risk - but at least one I can get my Head Round - No idea what the alternative was 

I presume the alternative was to continue to ask Colin Weir to stay involved 

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1 minute ago, Third Lanark said:

I presume the alternative was to continue to ask Colin Weir to stay involved 

On what terms?  

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14 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

As against what - what we had over the last Season ? 

Lets for talking sake and I accept its not fact - but what if the statement regards having a significant budget deficit is true - going by the Transfer Money - rough guess could be £200k - what about the "additional " £300K at Xmas already  agreed - where was that coming from ? 

So Yes there is risk - but at least one I can get my Head Round - No idea what the alternative was 

Ok , so you’re focusing on the financials which is fair enough , though nowhere near Save the Jags scenario.

I’m more interested in what direction the Club are  going in , are we going to be a lower league club with the owners only interested in getting games for their youth players at Barnsley , can’t see them investing in the Academy and waiting for our youth players to come through to the first team in 6 or 7 years time . It’s in an Investment Company , I just don’t see them being around in 10 yrs time and then what ?

It’s a big sell for the Investment Company, trying to get the fans on board , getting interaction from sponsors etc , if they don’t why else would you fill a billionaire’s pockets .

 

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39 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

As against what - what we had over the last Season ? 

Lets for talking sake and I accept its not fact - but what if the statement regards having a significant budget deficit is true - going by the Transfer Money - rough guess could be £200k - what about the "additional " £300K at Xmas already  agreed - where was that coming from ? 

So Yes there is risk - but at least one I can get my Head Round - No idea what the alternative was 

The alternative was to get a decent football manager , build a young team through our Academy and other youngsters let go by clubs, a good coach who can make players better , it would maybe take 3 or 4 years to build this but at least we would still have our identity rather than being a plaything for an Investment Company.

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51 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

As against what - what we had over the last Season ? 

Lets for talking sake and I accept its not fact - but what if the statement regards having a significant budget deficit is true - going by the Transfer Money - rough guess could be £200k - what about the "additional " £300K at Xmas already  agreed - where was that coming from ? 

So Yes there is risk - but at least one I can get my Head Round - No idea what the alternative was 

You could say the alternative was the glorified bowling club model which you are fed up with, but which has kept us going for 140 years.

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31 minutes ago, jlsarmy said:

The alternative was to get a decent football manager , build a young team through our Academy and other youngsters let go by clubs, a good coach who can make players better , it would maybe take 3 or 4 years to build this but at least we would still have our identity rather than being a plaything for an Investment Company.

Ok -but there has bee no sign of that happening as the previous Board  were backing GC 100% and there is no Scouting System in Scotland plus Academy has had 4 Years ( at least 

As for Plaything - I disagree - they have a Plan ( you may disagree with that Plan ) but the 100% have a Plan - so what is it when you join a Board of a Club when you are a Supporter of another Club - how does that work for looking at the Clubs Future 

Im still waiting on the Thistle Fans who are going to step up and buy out the Current Shareholders ? 

So I honestly dont see this as any worse than the status quo 

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30 minutes ago, allyo said:

You could say the alternative was the glorified bowling club model which you are fed up with, but which has kept us going for 140 years.

And Won us two Trophies in those 140 Years 

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1 hour ago, Third Lanark said:

I presume the alternative was to continue to ask Colin Weir to stay involved 

Ok - I accept that - but thats in direct opposition to what our previous Chairman stated and who went to great lengths to state we were self sufficient ? 

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49 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

And Won us two Trophies in those 140 Years 

Ok. Take out the old firm. (And I'm assuming you wouldn't want to go the way of Rangers). How many Scottish trophies in that time have been won by clubs run by venture capitalists?

In fact, genuine question JJ (I don't know the answer), are there any examples of rich capitalist consortiums with no prior connections coming into a club of our level in Scotland, and it working out well?

Edited by allyo

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1 hour ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

And Won us two Trophies in those 140 Years 

Not sure if Barnsley reserves will win us anything?

Edited by jlsarmy
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Does anyone else the now miss the golden Halcyon days of folk on here arguing about whether Archie should be sacked or not? 

Compared to the complete shit show and financial toilet paper dumpster fire this place is now? Its as if we are all  in an endless circle of hell with posts from the same people arguing over the same things in a rotating cycle of crap with no new information.

Wish i could just bug out and not look at this site anymore but unfortunately my love of our club means every time there is a new post, I will always have a look hoping that some sort of info on what is happening has been shared. 

I post this to send my love to my fellow lurkers who are stuck in this hellish loop with me.

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1 hour ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Ok -but there has bee no sign of that happening as the previous Board  were backing GC 100% and there is no Scouting System in Scotland plus Academy has had 4 Years ( at least 

As for Plaything - I disagree - they have a Plan ( you may disagree with that Plan ) but the 100% have a Plan - so what is it when you join a Board of a Club when you are a Supporter of another Club - how does that work for looking at the Clubs Future 

Im still waiting on the Thistle Fans who are going to step up and buy out the Current Shareholders ? 

So I honestly dont see this as any worse than the status quo 

You obviously know that plan ? , their only interest in our Club is they somehow think they can make money and if it wasn’t us it would have been Falkirk or Morton , Ayr United or anybody who agreed to their terms .

There is no affiliation there so if things go wrong they won’t give a toss 

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2 minutes ago, jlsarmy said:

You obviously know that plan ? , their only interest in our Club is they somehow think they can make money and if it wasn’t us it would have been Falkirk or Morton , Ayr United or anybody who agreed to their terms .

There is no affiliation there so if things go wrong they won’t give a toss 

Out of likes but well said 

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1 hour ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Ok - I accept that - but thats in direct opposition to what our previous Chairman stated and who went to great lengths to state we were self sufficient ? 

Being self sufficient with Colin weirs support on strategic projects what’s the downside ?!

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10 hours ago, Semi Nurainen said:

I share Sandy's concern about what happens next.

I have so far been guided by the thought that the biggest indictment of the old board is sitting in the dug out - I know he'll agree with me on that!

Therefore - so far - I have been inclined to view the replacement of the old by the new, as overall a good thing. If nothing else were to happen I would still regard it as a 'Labour gain', though what the way forward would be literally anybody's guess, so I'm not going to.

Like JJ I am totally against the 'sugar daddy' business model (though it's a nice to have if you already have a working model), and think than an investor led model is the lesser of the two evils. But the continuing lack of information/engagement from the new regime is certainly worrying. 

I've been keeping an eye on Barnsley: good that they've had promotion and many (of their) fans accept that they'd never have got that far before the takeover, but some of their results have shocking - pumped by Carlisle for example (equivalent to our getting knocked out of cup by Est Fife), but then a creditable result against Charlton . Their fans' forum reads pretty much like ours - you almost delete 'Barsnley' and insert 'Jags', and you wouldn't know the difference. Happy clappers saying it's been the best two and a half years of their existence and the awkward squad asking why there isn't enough money for players  and satirising what they call the 'dogma' of the new regime; the former saying the manager's hand are tied, the latter booting his chuckies, etc.

Time will tell.

By far the biggest mistake from the previous board was retaining Archibald- his contract meant if he was sacked he would be paid the most expensive payoff eg if he still had more than a year on his 3 year contract left he would be paid that if he had less than he would be paid a full year.  So following the Livingston debacle in May if he had been sacked he only had exactly a year on his contract and either way would have only had to pay off the year from May. However he and Paterson were not sacked to October therefore we are paying them till then and remember neither had a relegation clause in their contract so on good wages. 

Also by retaining them to October meant he had a full summer to sign duds which caused yet more expense having to pay off. 

Furthermore if it had been last May we could have got far more options at managerial appointments eg McCall and Goodwin- not guaranteed it would have been Caldwell and finally the new appointment would have had all summer to bring in their new players 

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The day of giving out contracts that seem to favour the  managers etc really need to be ended,  atleast untill the mananger proves himself in the job first,

it is not as if they are thin on the ground managers are always looking for jobs.

 

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4 hours ago, javeajag said:

Being self sufficient with Colin weirs support on strategic projects what’s the downside ?!

so does that include the £300K of additional funding at Xmas is that a strategic project ? 

 

And we will find out how "self sufficient " at the AGM 

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4 hours ago, jlsarmy said:

You obviously know that plan ? , their only interest in our Club is they somehow think they can make money and if it wasn’t us it would have been Falkirk or Morton , Ayr United or anybody who agreed to their terms .

There is no affiliation there so if things go wrong they won’t give a toss 

And a Board on Non Thistle Fans who haven't invested a penny is different from this hoe exactly ? 

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People ought to stop comparing with options which no longer exist as that’s hit helpful  

1. Colin weir has gone. 

2. There is no longer a board of “non thistle fans. “

3  the status quo option is a shareholder group and board who have already sold in their heads  

there would not appear to be a rewind to where we were option  

at the moment, it seems to be that the only two options are the takeover or being run by a disinterested board keen to divest their interests   

 

 

 

Edited by jaf

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