New Owner

[Semi Nurainen]

32 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

I wanted my own acroterion to go above my vomitorium but the next Council Planning Dept meeting has been prorogued.

Actually, I think it was a pediment like the pointy bit on top of the stand, but honestly it's all Greek to me.

[Jordanhill Jag]

43 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said:

But is that not exactly what we would be letting the consortium do. This is my issue with it. We would have lost all control and there is no possible governance of their actions once they take over. They will have full and unilateral control

No the Consortium will be buying the Club and be responsible for Running it - same as all the Boards we had in the past ( apart from the last one ) The Directors had Control of 50% of the Shares which they had purchased and they made the key decisions - same as most Companies 

Therefore if Colin Weir wants to have a Major Say in the Future of the Club - Buy it and put in his Board - be responsible - dont just wield Financial Power then leave it to others  

 

[Firhillista]

51 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Ok its simple - Money welds Power - now that just a fact - however with Power comes responsibility and accountability 

To simply hand over cash to others amd let them do as they please is not something I think is a Good Thing 

If Mr Weir wants to buy the Club Appiont a Board and take ultimate responsibility - Im ok with that - Im not OK  with creating a  scenario where the Money effects change but thats the end to it - if it goes pear shaped the person who affected the change has to be accountable - the Road to Ruin is paved with Good Intentions - so if your not willing to take responsibilty - then dont effect change  

Thank you for the response. Yes, I agree!

But.

If Colin Weir transfers the ownership of the shares to Thistle fans as is being suggested - although, clearly, the implementation of that has to be explained - then the ownership and responsibility for those shares will then rest with the fans/shareholders who are then, in turn, responsible for appointing a board of directors accountable to the fans/ shareholders.

Surely this is better than the club being owned by a group who will be accountable only to themselves?

[Jordanhill Jag]

Just now, Firhillista said:

Thank you for the response. Yes, I agree!

But.

If Colin Weir transfers the ownership of the shares to Thistle fans as is being suggested - although, clearly, the implementation of that has to be explained - then the ownership and responsibility for those shares will then rest with the fans/shareholders who are then, in turn, responsible for appointing a board of directors accountable to the fans/ shareholders.

Surely this is better than the club being owned by a group who will be accountable only to themselves?

And who dictated that the Fans want other Fans to Run the Club ? Ultimately Colin Weir is dictating this by  because without them they cant raise the Money - who has said what there doing is what the Fans want ? 

Show me the demands over the Years for this Model - show me the push from Supporters - What level of support do TFE actually have to make this massive change - who decided they speak for us ?  

 

[Firhillista]

Just now, Jordanhill Jag said:

And who dictated that the Fans want other Fans to Run the Club ? Ultimately Colin Weir is dictating this by  because without them they cant raise the Money - who has said what there doing is what the Fans want ? 

Show me the demands over the Years for this Model - show me the push from Supporters - What level of support do TFE actually have to make this massive change - who decided they speak for us ?  

 

So... fans don't want other fans running the club. They'd rather have people who are NOT fans, but in it for the money instead?

I get that you think the club should be run by business people, but the model that's proposed isn't suggesting a move away from that, necessarily. We're not debating the management of the club, but it's ownership. 

I want Thistle to be managed competently and effectively, but I also want strategic decisions about the club to be made by people accountable to the fans. From the extremely limited information available about the New City Finance consortium, that won't happen under that model.

[Fawlty Towers]

9 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

No the Consortium will be buying the Club and be responsible for Running it - same as all the Boards we had in the past ( apart from the last one ) The Directors had Control of 50% of the Shares which they had purchased and they made the key decisions - same as most Companies 

Therefore if Colin Weir wants to have a Major Say in the Future of the Club - Buy it and put in his Board - be responsible - dont just wield Financial Power then leave it to others  

 

Jim, you make your point in a very clear way but (you knew it was coming) I do disagree with it.

One of the issues I am concerned about is that whilst the New City Group may be great they have already sold one of the clubs they were involved in (and we are always being told that we should judge them on what they have already done). What we don't know is who they will sell the club to when and if they decide to move on. So whilst the next owners of our club are currently occupying our minds if we go down one route the ownership issue could be settled for years to come but another route could see the ownership change hands on a regular basis.

[Jordanhill Jag]

39 minutes ago, Fawlty Towers said:

Jim, you make your point in a very clear way but (you knew it was coming) I do disagree with it.

One of the issues I am concerned about is that whilst the New City Group may be great they have already sold one of the clubs they were involved in (and we are always being told that we should judge them on what they have already done). What we don't know is who they will sell the club to when and if they decide to move on. So whilst the next owners of our club are currently occupying our minds if we go down one route the ownership issue could be settled for years to come but another route could see the ownership change hands on a regular basis.

Martin 

Where is the support for Fan Ownership beyond TFE  and a couple of hundred pledges - who decided this was the best route to go - if we had a merged Trusts - fair and proper Elections to them - people stand on that mandate - Fine but instead we have have a half dozen guys on Twitter  making decisions on behalf on the Fans - on whos say so ?  

[Jordanhill Jag]

56 minutes ago, Firhillista said:

So... fans don't want other fans running the club. They'd rather have people who are NOT fans, but in it for the money instead?

I get that you think the club should be run by business people, but the model that's proposed isn't suggesting a move away from that, necessarily. We're not debating the management of the club, but it's ownership. 

I want Thistle to be managed competently and effectively, but I also want strategic decisions about the club to be made by people accountable to the fans. From the extremely limited information available about the New City Finance consortium, that won't happen under that model.

I have No idea what Fans want - and more importantly neither do TFE - but looks like them and Colin Weir are making that decision for us - based on what Im not quite sure 

[allyo]

20 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

I have No idea what Fans want - and more importantly neither do TFE - but looks like them and Colin Weir are making that decision for us - based on what Im not quite sure 

Just take a step back though. 

We know very little about the TfE proposals, but they only emerged yesterday.

We know very little about the New City proposal, and they emerged in June.

One group is local and is obviously only interested in Partick Thistle.

One group is international and we don't have any understanding of why they've chosen us.

One group is funded by a benefactor who has previously shown that he's not looking for money back.

One group is focussed on shareholder profit.

One group has no prior experience, as far as we know, of running a football club.

One group has prior experience, and the verdict on its performance is fairly mixed.

It's all full of uncertainty. I can fully understand why people would be cautious either way.

Are you able to explain why you are so suspicious of one group, and yet have been nothing but positive about the other?

 

[javeajag]

3 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Im not promoting the Consortium - Im taking David Beattie and the Shareholders at there Word that its positive for the Club - Ive looked at there  approach at other Clubs and think its a good approach 

But we have zero to measure TFE against - so tell us why its such a Great Thing - Tell us why this Group of People are Right and the former Directors / Shareholders are wrong ?   

So Directors fees increasing 50%, increased losses and the cost of buying the club put on the balance sheet....explain why that would be good for us since you have looked into it.

then explain why nice and Barnsley fans hate them 

then explain how they are going to make money from us 

[javeajag]

1 hour ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

No the Consortium will be buying the Club and be responsible for Running it - same as all the Boards we had in the past ( apart from the last one ) The Directors had Control of 50% of the Shares which they had purchased and they made the key decisions - same as most Companies 

Therefore if Colin Weir wants to have a Major Say in the Future of the Club - Buy it and put in his Board - be responsible - dont just wield Financial Power then leave it to others  

 

Why not if the others are the fans ?

[javeajag]

1 hour ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

And who dictated that the Fans want other Fans to Run the Club ? Ultimately Colin Weir is dictating this by  because without them they cant raise the Money - who has said what there doing is what the Fans want ? 

Show me the demands over the Years for this Model - show me the push from Supporters - What level of support do TFE actually have to make this massive change - who decided they speak for us ?  

 

Who dictated our club should be owned by private equity guys who couldn’t find maryhill on a map ?

[javeajag]

41 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Martin 

Where is the support for Fan Ownership beyond TFE  and a couple of hundred pledges - who decided this was the best route to go - if we had a merged Trusts - fair and proper Elections to them - people stand on that mandate - Fine but instead we have have a half dozen guys on Twitter  making decisions on behalf on the Fans - on whos say so ?  

You keep knocking fan ownership etc but tell us nothing about the consortium , their plans , who they are etc ....let’s be clear who these guys are : venture capitalists who are out to make money they care not one iota about ptfc 

[Pinhead]

Who is backing the trust financially should Mr Weir not be around? Do we have any financial backers as in there comes some disaster and we need to stump up £100k right away, and financial disasters do happen no matter how well a business is run!

[Jordanhill Jag]

53 minutes ago, javeajag said:

You keep knocking fan ownership etc but tell us nothing about the consortium , their plans , who they are etc ....let’s be clear who these guys are : venture capitalists who are out to make money they care not one iota about ptfc 

I havent knocked Fan Ownership in any shape or form at any time - so your talking nonsense 

I have asked Questions as to who TFE & Colin Weir Speak for - and why they think that they can decide that the best route for the Club is Fan Ownership ( or there vision of it) and please note its there version of it-as no one else has had an input 

"Caring" is not the same as good management - Yes the Consortium are approaching it like a Business which is acceptable at least I know what there about 

TFE - who are they - why now ? Colin Weir as confirmed by David Beattie  in the Press wouldn't meet him face to face but Im assuming has met with TFE - how did that come about ?  

 

 

 

 

[Jordanhill Jag]

1 hour ago, javeajag said:

Who dictated our club should be owned by private equity guys who couldn’t find maryhill on a map ?

The people who put in there hard earned cash when the Club was struggling thats who 

[Jordanhill Jag]

1 hour ago, javeajag said:

So Directors fees increasing 50%, increased losses and the cost of buying the club put on the balance sheet....explain why that would be good for us since you have looked into it.

then explain why nice and Barnsley fans hate them 

then explain how they are going to make money from us 

And pray explain how TFE and Colin Weir are going to work 

I have No idea how they make Money from us - Im not buying the Club - we have No Idea if Barnsley or Nice Fans "hate them " according to TFE they speak for Thistle Fans   - so you could have the equivalent at Barnsley & Nice - not happy as they want it for themselves 

[Jordanhill Jag]

1 hour ago, allyo said:

Just take a step back though. 

We know very little about the TfE proposals, but they only emerged yesterday.

We know very little about the New City proposal, and they emerged in June.

One group is local and is obviously only interested in Partick Thistle.

One group is international and we don't have any understanding of why they've chosen us.

One group is funded by a benefactor who has previously shown that he's not looking for money back.

One group is focussed on shareholder profit.

One group has no prior experience, as far as we know, of running a football club.

One group has prior experience, and the verdict on its performance is fairly mixed.

It's all full of uncertainty. I can fully understand why people would be cautious either way.

Are you able to explain why you are so suspicious of one group, and yet have been nothing but positive about the other?

 

Ok - First I have said I have looked at the Consortium - liked what I saw and Im comfortable David Beattie etc have the Clubs Interests at Heart 

What is the Plan behind TFE - why is Colin Weir backing them - why did he not speak to David Beattie but has decided to back these guys - No idea 

But my instinct says that TFE arent right for the Club - too much PR - picking the questions they want to answer - gone from No where to taking over the Club in couple of weeks - put themselves up as the Voice of the Fans based on not a lot - sorry its just not stacking up for me 

[allyo]

19 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Ok - First I have said I have looked at the Consortium - liked what I saw and Im comfortable David Beattie etc have the Clubs Interests at Heart 

What is the Plan behind TFE - why is Colin Weir backing them - why did he not speak to David Beattie but has decided to back these guys - No idea 

But my instinct says that TFE arent right for the Club - too much PR - picking the questions they want to answer - gone from No where to taking over the Club in couple of weeks - put themselves up as the Voice of the Fans based on not a lot - sorry its just not stacking up for me 

Fair enough, you've come to a view, I respect that.

But are you as 100%, black and white on this as you make out, or is that you just holding a position for the sake of an argument?

Or have you just decided that on balance, based on what you know, you have a preference, but have some doubts either way?

[javeajag]

42 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

I havent knocked Fan Ownership in any shape or form at any time - so your talking nonsense 

I have asked Questions as to who TFE & Colin Weir Speak for - and why they think that they can decide that the best route for the Club is Fan Ownership ( or there vision of it) and please note its there version of it-as no one else has had an input 

"Caring" is not the same as good management - Yes the Consortium are approaching it like a Business which is acceptable at least I know what there about 

TFE - who are they - why now ? Colin Weir as confirmed by David Beattie  in the Press wouldn't meet him face to face but Im assuming has met with TFE - how did that come about ?  

 

 

 

 

If you know the consortium and what they are about can you share it with the rest of us ?

It’s enlightening that you prefer venture capitalists to Thistle fans 

[javeajag]

43 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

The people who put in there hard earned cash when the Club was struggling thats who 

You mean Thistle fans you approve of 

[javeajag]

41 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

And pray explain how TFE and Colin Weir are going to work 

I have No idea how they make Money from us - Im not buying the Club - we have No Idea if Barnsley or Nice Fans "hate them " according to TFE they speak for Thistle Fans   - so you could have the equivalent at Barnsley & Nice - not happy as they want it for themselves 

If you did ant research at all and you claim to know all about them then you would know what the fans of Barnsley and a Nice thought of them 

TFE will have to explain themselves but you make no such demand of the venture capitalists ?

[javeajag]

46 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Ok - First I have said I have looked at the Consortium - liked what I saw and Im comfortable David Beattie etc have the Clubs Interests at Heart 

What is the Plan behind TFE - why is Colin Weir backing them - why did he not speak to David Beattie but has decided to back these guys - No idea 

But my instinct says that TFE arent right for the Club - too much PR - picking the questions they want to answer - gone from No where to taking over the Club in couple of weeks - put themselves up as the Voice of the Fans based on not a lot - sorry its just not stacking up for me 

Ok what have you looked at and explain it to the rest of us 

Edited September 25, 2019 by javeajag

[Big Col]

It appears that some people have decided that TFE is the best thing for Thistle based on limited information and sound bites.

I appreciate we’ve heard no detail at all from the consortium but with no detail from TFE how have some arrived at their conclusion they are the best for the club?

[javeajag]

7 minutes ago, Big Col said:

It appears that some people have decided that TFE is the best thing for Thistle based on limited information and sound bites.

I appreciate we’ve heard no detail at all from the consortium but with no detail from TFE how have some arrived at their conclusion they are the best for the club?

I think it kinda works this way .....

on one side we have Colin weir and some Thistle fans who will buy the club , give us fan and community ownership , bring the stadium fully into club ownership and fund the academy ....on the other side you have some venture capitalists looking to make money on us in ways no one here will admit to ....it’s a choice one or the other