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New Owner

douglas clark

'Tis not the job of a moderator to stop people writing here. The rules are pretty simple:

reported ad hominem attacks will be investigated (and if found to be true) or write stuff that could get the site into trouble

and you'll either be warned / your post deleted, or - worst case scenario -  banned either temporarily or permanently.

This particular thread has had a vigorous exchange of views, and perhaps more heat than light. But the quality of the debate - it seems to me at least - is down to the lack of information.  That, in and of itself, means that whatever side you happen to be on is for a fan, very frustrating.

So, I have no intention of closing threads just because the quality of the postings isn't great. That is not the role of a moderator.

If you wake up the following morning you can always delete something you wish you'd never said.

 

 

 

 

 

Message added by douglas clark

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We have 2 generations of Thistle fans that have never seen us in a cup final let alone win it. Or seen us in Europe (apart from Intertoto cup)

Im willing to take a chance on this to perhaps see one or both of the above 

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12 minutes ago, javeajag said:

We have three clubs in our division now owned by Americans and we look next to go ... it might be useful to analyse  why that is ?

Or we could analyse the performance of the Dundee clubs since the Americans took over: relegation and, in the case of United, a number of botched attempts at promotion.

Kinda makes a mockery of Norge's reason for accepting the risk when you view it through that lens.

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3 minutes ago, Dark Passenger said:

Or we could analyse the performance of the Dundee clubs since the Americans took over: relegation and, in the case of United, a number of botched attempts at promotion.

Kinda makes a mockery of Norge's reason for accepting the risk when you view it through that lens.

All depends on the owner and the manager they put in place.

Do you believe the status quo would deliver a cup final or European place? 

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15 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

All depends on the owner and the manager they put in place.

Do you believe the status quo would deliver a cup final or European place? 

do you think the new owners would seek to retain low and Britton given that the new owners may not have much knowledge of the club and obviously both Jacqui and Gerry will have been here for a few years and have extensive knowledge?

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Always amazed how people talk about investment and sponsorship like we are some big powerhouse.  We are a yo yo club with a fanbase averaging 3000 in a city dominated by 2 other clubs.  Resouces, finance and interest is increasingly being centralised into a small number of clubs in a small number of leagues so Rangers and Celtic (and Ajax, Anderlecht, Benfica etc) are on the outside looking in.  We are so far from these previous big names the only people out there to give money to the club are fans themselves.

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9 minutes ago, Third Lanark said:

do you think the new owners would seek to retain low and Britton given that the new owners may not have much knowledge of the club and obviously both Jacqui and Gerry will have been here for a few years and have extensive knowledge?

Think the new owners would keep on GB and possibly JL as well provided Colin Weir still has involvement with the Academy.

Think the person most at risk is Caldwell , reading between the lines , their template is to source untapped talent, give them a platform and sell them within a couple of years . Not sure Caldwell would have as much control over transfers as he appears to have just now .

 

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8 minutes ago, Lambies Lost Doo said:

Always amazed how people talk about investment and sponsorship like we are some big powerhouse.  We are a yo yo club with a fanbase averaging 3000 in a city dominated by 2 other clubs.  Resouces, finance and interest is increasingly being centralised into a small number of clubs in a small number of leagues so Rangers and Celtic (and Ajax, Anderlecht, Benfica etc) are on the outside looking in.  We are so far from these previous big names the only people out there to give money to the club are fans themselves.

Colin Weir ?

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1 hour ago, Dark Passenger said:

I'm aware of that, thanks.

What it is, however, is the common sense view of someone involved in the business side of football on why a wealthy investor might be interested in purchasing Partick Thistle.

Some folk on here have used the current board's lack of equity in the club as one of many sticks to beat it with, but at least we know they're not in it to make a quick buck.

What - and I appreciate we're dealing in hypotheticals here - if any new owner can't grow the club to a degree that makes it saleable? 

Do they write off their investment in their 'plaything' (copyright JordanhillJag), or do they load it with debt in a bid to recoup some of their outlay?

Who cares as long as we get rid of Jacqui Low and Gary Caldwell, right?

Your last line is spot on.

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3 hours ago, jaf said:

I understand much of this. The one thing I am unsure about though is this “identity” point.   

what really is the difference between being run by a bunch of people from fife and Edinburgh who had never seen us play before compared to being run by people from further afield but essentially with the same history of having not seen us (albeit the second group do have experience of running football clubs)  

The current custodians of our club talk about identity but what does it actually mean. A year ago we were told we would go back to playing  “the partick thistle way” and go back where we belong to the premier league. What is playing the  partick thistle way and how did we see it?   And if you knew our history perhaps you would not conclude we belong in the spl but are more of a yo-yo club between the top 2 divisions.

In short , you have personal experience at work which I respect may influence your feelings on this, but for me it comes down to whether you believe this board will protect the identity of the club or are simply passing through in an attempt to enhance cvs  if you believe the latter, then there is less to fear from this development  I would add to that, I trust the people who would sell the shares to make this happen and believe none of them have any motivation not to want the best foe the club in the future   That itself gives me a further degree of comfort   

I am not saying we shouldn’t have concerns but I do think let’s see the detail prior to condemning this as a doomsday scenario  

I suppose my view is that our owners to date have never really imposed an identity on us. Owners, directors etc came and went, but we continued on as Partick Thistle, because the club was always bigger than whatever was behind it.

I worry that with this type of arrangement the ownership becomes the dominant force, that we just become a small part of a wider "portfolio" (I hate that word), set up to please shareholders regardless of what it means on the ground. 

I mean, it might result in success.  That's the best case scenario, right? But when I look at Man City winning all these trophies I don't see the old club, I see an oil billionaire's money dressed up in pale blue with old Man City badge. It wouldn't excite me as a fan.

Fully appreciate that this is subjective and it's all about your perspective as a fan. Some people just want a successful team and that's fair enough. But I think this could distance the club from the fans, and the trend would be a concern for all of Scottish football,  not just Thistle.

Old fashioned views though. I accept that.

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15 hours ago, jagfox said:

I would question McCall's training methods. Went from title challengers to meekly limping out in the playoffs. 

Maybe a break in January would have done Ayr some good?

Also football training and athletics training will have a lot of differences. 

This warm weather stuff isn't exactly exclusive to Caldwell, is it? I seem to remember us playing a pre-season friendly against Brighton in Spain when Archie was manager.

Anyway, we'll be unstoppable with our billionaire in the boardroom, "Colly" back in the dugout and Jordanhill Jag as fitness, strength and conditioning coach.

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1 hour ago, Dark Passenger said:

Aye, because those past directors are doing it with the best interests of Partick Thistle in mind. It's absolutely nothing to do with making a bit of moolah.

There will be a few cashing in - 100% there will also be others who dont need the cash and see it as a way for the Club to progess or simply dont see the Current Set Up as one that they are willing to support - so you dont know the motivation - but the majority of them invested six figure sums and a lot of time and effort -they are all Supporters of the Club and stepped in when the Club needed them - I will ask again - whats the motivation to be involved in Partick Thistle from the current incumbents - why should we trust there judgement more than those who are selling there shares ?   

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8 minutes ago, Dark Passenger said:

This warm weather stuff isn't exactly exclusive to Caldwell, is it? I seem to remember us playing a pre-season friendly against Brighton in Spain when Archie was manager.

Anyway, we'll be unstoppable with our billionaire in the boardroom, "Colly" back in the dugout and Jordanhill Jag as fitness, strength and conditioning coach.

 

10 minutes ago, Dark Passenger said:

This warm weather stuff isn't exactly exclusive to Caldwell, is it? I seem to remember us playing a pre-season friendly against Brighton in Spain when Archie was manager.

Anyway, we'll be unstoppable with our billionaire in the boardroom, "Colly" back in the dugout and Jordanhill Jag as fitness, strength and conditioning coach.

I didnt think it was a good idea then either - but bottom line is we could afford it  

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1 hour ago, Dark Passenger said:

I think they're as likely to as anyone else.

We managed to scrape survival in the Championship with £850K of additional Money from Premier Payments compared to everyone else - on what basis to you think they have what it takes to progress the Club - Rainbow Tops ?   

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15 minutes ago, Dark Passenger said:

This warm weather stuff isn't exactly exclusive to Caldwell, is it? I seem to remember us playing a pre-season friendly against Brighton in Spain when Archie was manager.

Anyway, we'll be unstoppable with our billionaire in the boardroom, "Colly" back in the dugout and Jordanhill Jag as fitness, strength and conditioning coach.

Nope - Im a decent enough Coach - and Ive lots of experience from competing and training with some very Great Athletes  - but there are far far better Coaches around than me - a number of them Thistle Fans  - its worth noting that Lambie used Athletics Coaches for Strength & Conditioning  

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The phrase "lambs to the slaughter" springs to mind.

This consortium are the very worst type of "businessmen". They're the unacceptable face of capitalism.

We are a small under performing club, some may say badly run. However, we are free from debt.

As far as assets go we own half of the stadium, the other half is owned by Propco (Thistle minded investors). The share ownership of the club is fractured far and wide.

In conclusion, the affairs of PTFC are currently a bit of a dogs dinner, nevertheless, nothing that couldn't and shouldn't be put right, by the right kind of people.

This consortium is NOT the right kind of people.

They will "buy" control of our club through a leveraged buy out. This means whatever it costs to buy the club they will saddle the club with in debt. These people are experts in this. They will pick up the club for a song, about half of what's it's net worth (the land). This is how they operate. this is how they will make their initial profit. 

There will be at least three companies operating at thistle.

(1) The Partick Thistle that is saddled with all the debt when Firhill is sold and leased back to us.

(2) The Partick Thistle footballing side that will be kept debt free.

(3) The Partick Thistle holding company that will be used to siphon off the money to the consortium.

These vultures have spotted their prey and are now moving in for the kill.

 

Edited by AndyMac

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23 minutes ago, allyo said:

I suppose my view is that our owners to date have never really imposed an identity on us. Owners, directors etc came and went, but we continued on as Partick Thistle, because the club was always bigger than whatever was behind it.

I worry that with this type of arrangement the ownership becomes the dominant force, that we just become a small part of a wider "portfolio" (I hate that word), set up to please shareholders regardless of what it means on the ground. 

I mean, it might result in success.  That's the best case scenario, right? But when I look at Man City winning all these trophies I don't see the old club, I see an oil billionaire's money dressed up in pale blue with old Man City badge. It wouldn't excite me as a fan.

Fully appreciate that this is subjective and it's all about your perspective as a fan. Some people just want a successful team and that's fair enough. But I think this could distance the club from the fans, and the trend would be a concern for all of Scottish football,  not just Thistle.

Old fashioned views though. I accept that.

Hi Allyo, I think we are of similar age. But I am of a different opinion as I have longed for someone to plough money into the club. I think it would be great if we could get a winning team on the park and finally get some success apart from finishing 6th in the top league every 30 odd years or so, being the pinnacle. I think if we have a winning team on the park doing well on a consistent basis we would get the crowds back. Some might call them glory hunters. Of course I would not want the future of the club put in doubt, because of any deal. One thing for sure it is never boring following the Jags.:fan:

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Strangely enough I was asking a Dundee United supporting mate the other week why rich yanks would get involved with a tin pot Scottish outfit. He said he didn’t care as they were going nowhere under the previous regime. Why not take the chance. Thistle are in the same boat. Going nowhere under the current regime who offer nothing but pointless sound bites and pr bullshit. If rocket man in North Korea invested and made us a better team I’d take it. As it stands we are a small fish in a fairly small pond with a truly embarrassing record against the bigger fish. Mentally weak, parochial losers mentality which needs a complete change. We have no ambition. No drive. Modern football isn’t what is was and money/ investment is the only way to success. I’m not a fan of it but that’s the way it is. If this mob do take over it could make us more competitive. It could also turn out to be crap. But any more crap than it is now? I doubt it

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The level of mass hysteria on this thread is rather amusing. Seems some people know the ambitions and objectives of this consortium better than them themselves. Only a  tin-pot club like Thistle could so vehemently oppose investment without any real evidence of ulterior motives on the part of the buyer. "We might be pure sh!te, but at least we have a 'pure woke' away strip, and aren't Rangers or Celtic," seems to be the dominate attitude and culture. I think I will hold overly sceptical judgement for a chance at on field success until any damning evidence comes my way. 

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1 hour ago, jlsarmy said:

Think the new owners would keep on GB and possibly JL as well provided Colin Weir still has involvement with the Academy.

Think the person most at risk is Caldwell , reading between the lines , their template is to source untapped talent, give them a platform and sell them within a couple of years . Not sure Caldwell would have as much control over transfers as he appears to have just now .

 

I actually see Caldwell as developing a team around youngundeveloped  talent (Kenny Miller excepted though he still has not officially signed) - Williamson, Gordon, Mansell and Robson - all potentially could go onto bigger things and earn income for the club (or the new owners) if they play to their potential.  He is also using yougsters like Sneddon and Penrice - who too could potentially go onto bugger things.  Not sure the new owners would have been interested in retaining Erskine or Doolan either so he might well find a niche with them

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1 hour ago, Dark Passenger said:

Or we could analyse the performance of the Dundee clubs since the Americans took over: relegation and, in the case of United, a number of botched attempts at promotion.

Kinda makes a mockery of Norge's reason for accepting the risk when you view it through that lens.

So all foreign owners don’t work ?! It’s like me saying celtic are only successful because they are foreign owned .... way too simple 

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1 hour ago, Dark Passenger said:

Or we could analyse the performance of the Dundee clubs since the Americans took over: relegation and, in the case of United, a number of botched attempts at promotion.

Kinda makes a mockery of Norge's reason for accepting the risk when you view it through that lens.

But you can't taint all Americans just cos of dungdee nor united, not condem all Americans cos their leader is a pompous racist homophobic bigot etc etc.

We, or most of use won't have any say over this. We can merely watch from the wings and judge the potential consortium with the information that is publicly available, which indicates favourably for them as a group and as individuals.....so far.

I wouldn't be too concerned that if these people take control, that they will be intent on saddling us with debt beyond our means. We as a company do not represent a "good risk". There won't be an orderly queue to lend us money on the back of our assets. Unless the basin is stretched to be part of the west end and possil park, lambhill are relocated and we name the area, new milngavie or new bearsden, the value of the land our stadium is on, is limited. As quite a few others have stated, it can't be the value of our company that's the reason these folks want to take control. And as many have also stated, the current board are no gauge for success and I'd argue we'll be no worse off. 

For far too long and I include myself in this, we as fans, board members, "investors", share holders have lacked ambition and have accepted the mediocre with flashes of brilliance from the likes of chico, higgy, PK etc and small gifts of cup runs promotions and staying in the premier. I dare to dream:rolleyes:

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1 hour ago, Dark Passenger said:

I think they're as likely to as anyone else.

So by extension they’re the best board we can hope for and there’s no alternatives out there who would be better? Appreciate that your perspective on this seems skewed by a seeming personal dislike of another poster on this thread but you can’t actually believe that, surely?

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12 minutes ago, Third Lanark said:

I actually see Caldwell as developing a team around youngundeveloped  talent (Kenny Miller excepted though he still has not officially signed) - Williamson, Gordon, Mansell and Robson - all potentially could go onto bigger things and earn income for the club (or the new owners) if they play to their potential.  He is also using yougsters like Sneddon and Penrice - who too could potentially go onto bugger things.  Not sure the new owners would have been interested in retaining Erskine or Doolan either so he might well find a niche with them

Football team chat breaks out on wearethistle.......... I agree there are some positive signs, but then you mention dools and Erskine and I feel my temperature rise. Can we not just move on from that? I'm trying very hard to start the season afresh and give GC a fresh start.

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