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douglas clark

'Tis not the job of a moderator to stop people writing here. The rules are pretty simple:

reported ad hominem attacks will be investigated (and if found to be true) or write stuff that could get the site into trouble

and you'll either be warned / your post deleted, or - worst case scenario -  banned either temporarily or permanently.

This particular thread has had a vigorous exchange of views, and perhaps more heat than light. But the quality of the debate - it seems to me at least - is down to the lack of information.  That, in and of itself, means that whatever side you happen to be on is for a fan, very frustrating.

So, I have no intention of closing threads just because the quality of the postings isn't great. That is not the role of a moderator.

If you wake up the following morning you can always delete something you wish you'd never said.

 

 

 

 

 

Message added by douglas clark

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8 minutes ago, Semi Nurainen said:

How exactly is the group which is sceptical of TfE any 'tighter' than the one propounding it?

What exactly does 'tight ' mean in this context?

A small group that generally tends to back each other up on most issues, and seems to be pretty well connected. 

I think the "other side" of the argument is less fundamentalist (i.e. not 100% behind TFE, but willing to listen), more diverse in its views (e.g. I never usually agree with Javeajag about anything, Dick Dastardly doesn't like McCall), less connected, and includes far more people.

I also think it has less connections within the club, which has advantages and disadvantages, and is why I think both sides have to be heard and respected.

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4 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

And Controlled by TFE - they have decided how this is going to Work - who is doing the Vetting - ?

Who "decided" the Fans wanted Run by other Fans - at Dundee it was a complete Carcrash   

TFE have stated that they will not be involved once the fan ownership is in place. They are just there to facilitate the transition to fan ownership. 

This was stated from day 1

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3 hours ago, allyo said:

A small group that generally tends to back each other up on most issues, and seems to be pretty well connected. 

I think the "other side" of the argument is less fundamentalist (i.e. not 100% behind TFE, but willing to listen), more diverse in its views (e.g. I never usually agree with Javeajag about anything, Dick Dastardly doesn't like McCall), less connected, and includes far more people.

I also think it has less connections within the club, which has advantages and disadvantages, and is why I think both sides have to be heard and respected.

I’m hurt .... very hurt .....

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4 hours ago, admin said:

I assume you are claiming I'm lying then? 

Please provide evidence of my involvement with TfE aside from having made a pledge. If you can't remove your post or retract your allegation. 

You'll not find any evidence of my involvement TfE because there is none. I have no involvement with them. That might not suit the your agenda but it happens to be the truth. 

Admin so we can move on can you confirm either in your personal right or as admin of this forum you have received any communications from tfe on any matter.  Why is this important?  Because tfe have stated who is involved and I have seen inference other people are actually involved too and those other people may (or may not) be influencing the debate. That’s not a great start to transparency and trust with fellow fans. It is also ironic given the questioning of the secret motivations for jj’s opinions. 

Edited by Norgethistle

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1 minute ago, Norgethistle said:

Admin so we can move on can you confirm either in your personal right or as admin of this forum you have received any communications from tfe on any matter.  Why is this important?  Because tfe have stated who is involved and I have seen inference other people are actually involved too and those other people may (or may not) be influencing the debate. That’s not a great start to transparency and trust with fellow fans. It is also ironic given the questioning of the secret motivations for jj’s opinions. .”  

Well I signed up for tfe , asked a few questions , think I might have got one email a while back and that’s it .....what I know about them is what is publicly available 

if there is some secret society let’s say the ‘Jageratti’ to secretly take over the club It’s news to me 

but I think it’s not clear 

1.that tfe and the fans organisation to run the club will be the same thing 

2. That all the operational details have been agreed 

if we are talking agendas it’s like me saying that some people are trying to discredit tfe because they have a vested interest in Paul Conway buying the club .....

 

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36 minutes ago, javeajag said:

I’m hurt .... very hurt .....

No you're not. You disagree, I disagree, it's all fair

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1 hour ago, Norgethistle said:

Admin so we can move on can you confirm either in your personal right or as admin of this forum you have received any communications from tfe on any matter.  Why is this important?  Because tfe have stated who is involved and I have seen inference other people are actually involved too and those other people may (or may not) be influencing the debate. That’s not a great start to transparency and trust with fellow fans. It is also ironic given the questioning of the secret motivations for jj’s opinions. 

Sigh. How clear do I have to be about things to satisfy some? 

I have NO involvement with TfE aside from having made my modest pledge. 

Re communications I provided my email address when making my pledge and have received a couple of generic, global emails since then. 

I've met Paul Goodwin once when he was invited (not by me) to travel on the Jordanhill Bus to Montrose. I asked one question and posed for a photo with their Thistle Forever placard. 

I received one message from a individual from TfE, who I know socially, who asked me; in my capacity as Admin here, to approve a member request for this site. 

I may have commented on social media postings of his on the subject of TfE and vice versa. I genuinely don't recall. 

And that's it. 

TfE haven't asked me to be involved with them. Why would they? And I haven't asked to be involved. 

Of the names provided as being involved in TfE only one would I claim to know socially. I recognise some other names - I think I follow one on twitter. Others are completely new to me. 

Is that clear enough for you? 

I don't see why it is important anyway. I've formed an opinion, was actually swayed the other way for a bit but am now firmly a supporter of the TfE initiative. I reserve the right to change my mind at any point. 

Am I trying to influence the debate. No more or no less than anyone does who is trying to promote a particular line. That's how debate works is it not? 

Oh and in case you just skip past bits, I have No involvement with TfE. 

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1 hour ago, javeajag said:

Well I signed up for tfe , asked a few questions , think I might have got one email a while back and that’s it .....what I know about them is what is publicly available 

if there is some secret society let’s say the ‘Jageratti’ to secretly take over the club It’s news to me 

but I think it’s not clear 

1.that tfe and the fans organisation to run the club will be the same thing 

2. That all the operational details have been agreed 

if we are talking agendas it’s like me saying that some people are trying to discredit tfe because they have a vested interest in Paul Conway buying the club .....

 

But are you now or have ever been in the past a member of the Communist Party, sorry, Thistle Forever? 

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1 hour ago, javeajag said:

Well I signed up for tfe , asked a few questions , think I might have got one email a while back and that’s it .....what I know about them is what is publicly available 

if there is some secret society let’s say the ‘Jageratti’ to secretly take over the club It’s news to me 

but I think it’s not clear 

1.that tfe and the fans organisation to run the club will be the same thing 

2. That all the operational details have been agreed 

if we are talking agendas it’s like me saying that some people are trying to discredit tfe because they have a vested interest in Paul Conway buying the club .....

 

But are you now or have ever been in the past a member of the Communist Party, sorry, Thistle Forever? 

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7 hours ago, Semi Nurainen said:

You used the word lying, not me.

If you sent them cash you are by definition 'involved' and supporting them  ('your honour I admit I sent ISIS some  cash, but I don't support them and I'm not involved '). 

And you're now using your position to issue ultimatums.  Some 'debate'.

Great example comparing TFE to ISIS. I suppose you could have used the Conservative party to be fair. Admin really dont deserve such flak especially as the views expressed have been fair and balanced in my opinion. No one can say debate has not been open on here. The opposite is evidently clear.

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5 hours ago, jaggymct said:

TFE have stated that they will not be involved once the fan ownership is in place. They are just there to facilitate the transition to fan ownership. 

This was stated from day 1

Actually No they have not -

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11 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Actually No they have not -

If I was now to say "Oh yes they have !" this thread could go from ISIS to pantomime in less than a day

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On 10/23/2019 at 4:52 PM, admin said:

Sigh. How clear do I have to be about things to satisfy some? 

I have NO involvement with TfE aside from having made my modest pledge. 

Re communications I provided my email address when making my pledge and have received a couple of generic, global emails since then. 

I've met Paul Goodwin once when he was invited (not by me) to travel on the Jordanhill Bus to Montrose. I asked one question and posed for a photo with their Thistle Forever placard. 

I received one message from a individual from TfE, who I know socially, who asked me; in my capacity as Admin here, to approve a member request for this site. 

I may have commented on social media postings of his on the subject of TfE and vice versa. I genuinely don't recall. 

And that's it. 

TfE haven't asked me to be involved with them. Why would they? And I haven't asked to be involved. 

Of the names provided as being involved in TfE only one would I claim to know socially. I recognise some other names - I think I follow one on twitter. Others are completely new to me. 

Is that clear enough for you? 

I don't see why it is important anyway. I've formed an opinion, was actually swayed the other way for a bit but am now firmly a supporter of the TfE initiative. I reserve the right to change my mind at any point. 

Am I trying to influence the debate. No more or no less than anyone does who is trying to promote a particular line. That's how debate works is it not? 

Oh and in case you just skip past bits, I have No involvement with TfE. 

So you dont find it remotely strange that four Fans just randomly roll up out of No Where -  announce this Fan Ownership Model - apart from Paul Goodwin dont remember any of them pushing this before  - they then ask for pledges - get 260 then just randomly manage to make contact with Colin Weir and suddenly all the Money is covered - yet they haven't met any Fans - they haven't demonstrated the Fan Base actually wants Fan Ownership and the Sum Total of the people they represent is 263 and you think all of that is perfectly ok and doesn't seem strange in any shape or form 

but  when asked the question regards contact with previous Directors - they wont answer 

Also who are TFE - there are rumours of not just those fronting it - if true why are those in the background not being upfront regards there involvement 

I get the attraction of Fan Ownership but 100% do not think TFE are the route also take a look at Dundee it was a complete shambles and there process to establish it was 100% open and upfront   

Has Colin Weir done any due diligence on who he is handing the Club over to ? 

Because for the avoidance of doubt its TFE 

And before people go on about the Consortium - there is info about them in the Public Domain - who exactly are TFE ?    

 

  

  

Edited by Jordanhill Jag

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May I intervene here?

This is all fun and games, but it is not fun and games.

It is frankly ridiculous to pretend that TFE were  ISIS related.  One is the takeover of a football club and  t'other is, ahem, murderous. YMMV.

It is also a tad strange that everyone see's everyone else as a 'liar'.  I go to games, not as  often as I would like, but most fans seem to me do not call other fans 'liars'.

Please desist. I will, probably, delete posts that describe other posters as 'liars'. It is unproductive and wrong.

Could you good people please accept that there is more than one opinion about what is best for Partick Thistle?

It is worth remembering that our survival a good few years ago wasn't guaranteed. We are lucky to be here.

Please, moderate yourselves.

Make my job easy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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On 10/23/2019 at 4:57 PM, admin said:

But are you now or have ever been in the past a member of the Communist Party, sorry, Thistle Forever? 

i think in terms of balance those giving tfe a hard time - and I'm all for giving them scrutiny as well -  should declare...

1. Are they an existing shareholder who will be selling to the consortium

2. Are they going to invest in the consortium to buy the club

3. Will they be taking a position in the club under the consortium

just so we know everyones interests....

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On 10/25/2019 at 10:20 AM, javeajag said:

i think in terms of balance those giving tfe a hard time - and I'm all for giving them scrutiny as well -  should declare...

1. Are they an existing shareholder who will be selling to the consortium

2. Are they going to invest in the consortium to buy the club

3. Will they be taking a position in the club under the consortium

just so we know everyones interests....

For me the Answer is No to all three questions - now you may want to ask TFE how many of them there are beyond those stated publicly 

Have any of there Group or Associates been in Communications with previous Directors 

Also Im not aware of anyone who posts on here that answers Yes to anyone of your questions - and it would seem very much like an attempt at deflection when people are asking exactly who TFE are ............  

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Why is it such a big deal?  Even if some shadowy figure behind the scenes has been in contact with a previous director. None on them are shareholders and have no relevance to a fans' buyout.

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1 hour ago, scotty said:

Why is it such a big deal?  Even if some shadowy figure behind the scenes has been in contact with a previous director. None on them are shareholders and have no relevance to a fans' buyout.

Its a Big Deal because it is at the Core of wither this is a Fans Group as they claim- or if its part of an ongoing strategy as to who runs the Club   

Given that previous Directors had strong links to Colin Weir-- the fact that he was prepared to offer full funding out of the blue is obviously something that Fans have a right to ask questions of 

TFE "Sales Pitch" if you like is that they are "just" ordinary Fans - but if they have been in touch with former Directors - then who and why 

If there are other people rather than the Public Names - Who and Why are they keeping out of the Public Eye ? 

All of the above has a major bearing on who TFE are and potentially the motivation - if they are just a Group of Ordinary Fans they will have No issue answering the questions ( and they read the Forum )   

The other very serious question is on what basis are they acting for the Fans - they are taking over the Club in there Name - yet Ive seen very little demand for Fan Ownership 

The reality is Colin Weir has decided to buy the Club and hand it over to TFE - this isn't Fan Ownership its a takeover by Colin Weir / TFE 

 

 

 

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On 10/25/2019 at 11:20 AM, javeajag said:

i think in terms of balance those giving tfe a hard time - and I'm all for giving them scrutiny as well -  should declare...

1. Are they an existing shareholder who will be selling to the consortium

2. Are they going to invest in the consortium to buy the club

3. Will they be taking a position in the club under the consortium

just so we know everyones interests....

No on all 3 questions for me, in the interest of fairness can you answer the same questions but exchange consortium with TFE

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Ok good news.....

the rapproachment  between the Board and Colin Weir is just about complete !!

the consortium bid didn't add up and the due diligence raised a number of issues....what a surprise....

just for jj a new training facility is under discussion.....very interesting !

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14 hours ago, Norgethistle said:

No on all 3 questions for me, in the interest of fairness can you answer the same questions but exchange consortium with TFE

no, don't know, no

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5 hours ago, javeajag said:

Ok good news.....

the rapproachment  between the Board and Colin Weir is just about complete !!

the consortium bid didn't add up and the due diligence raised a number of issues....what a surprise....

just for jj a new training facility is under discussion.....very interesting !

So Colin Weir is buying the Club and handing to TFE to run - Good Luck with that .

As for the Training Ground that will be via 3 Black Cats - How long  is that a Training Ground  has been "Under Discussion "  - remind me who are the Directors of 3 Black Cats again ? 

However Interesting that you have such detailed information given that you have involvement with TFE 

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