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Jag

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douglas clark

'Tis not the job of a moderator to stop people writing here. The rules are pretty simple:

reported ad hominem attacks will be investigated (and if found to be true) or write stuff that could get the site into trouble

and you'll either be warned / your post deleted, or - worst case scenario -  banned either temporarily or permanently.

This particular thread has had a vigorous exchange of views, and perhaps more heat than light. But the quality of the debate - it seems to me at least - is down to the lack of information.  That, in and of itself, means that whatever side you happen to be on is for a fan, very frustrating.

So, I have no intention of closing threads just because the quality of the postings isn't great. That is not the role of a moderator.

If you wake up the following morning you can always delete something you wish you'd never said.

 

 

 

 

 

Message added by douglas clark

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1 hour ago, javeajag said:

I wasn’t referring to fan ownership but to the training ground .....

we are not an undervalued asset nor would we be in any pension managers portfolio ....I said vulture capitalist not  vulture funds so quote me correctly .....these type of people don’t care about the assets they buy, the human beings in them or the communities they are in so ill keep my moral high ground thanks 

Ok just to be clear - you would never in any shape or form  be involved in or invest in any vehicle or Organisation that put Profit before People - or an Organisation that by its actions had a negative impact on Society - or any organisation that carried out actions that impacted on fellow Human Beings Negatively 

These are a very high standard of Morals and you should be congratulated on them - but so we are Clear if you could just confirm the above with a Yes or No as your calling out the Consortium from a Moral Standpoint which is very admirable 

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Nope Nope and Nope 

just a season ticket holder and very small shareholder wanting to avoid my club being taken over by animals 

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8 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Ok just to be clear - you would never in any shape or form  be involved in or invest in any vehicle or Organisation that put Profit before People - or an Organisation that by its actions had a negative impact on Society - or any organisation that carried out actions that impacted on fellow Human Beings Negatively 

These are a very high standard of Morals and you should be congratulated on them - but so we are Clear if you could just confirm the above with a Yes or No as your calling out the Consortium from a Moral Standpoint which is very admirable 

yes

That’s what I try to do eg no tobacco, no oil , no coal, no arms etc

and I know these specific kind of people if you asked them to go to an island and collect £10m but it’s a shame that they can’t as their granny is unwell they would off to see granny with a pillow immediately.....

 

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3 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

Great credit to you that you still manage to type so freely and so often. :thumbsup2:

Technology helps !!

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3 hours ago, javeajag said:

yes

That’s what I try to do eg no tobacco, no oil , no coal, no arms etc

and I know these specific kind of people if you asked them to go to an island and collect £10m but it’s a shame that they can’t as their granny is unwell they would off to see granny with a pillow immediately.....

 

Ok so you wouldn't be involved in any Organisation that by there Actions would cause untold Misery on Society - and Im therefore assuming you manage your own Pension Portfolio and only make ethical Investments - all very laudable - I can therefore see that from that Position that you can make the assessment of the Vulture Investors who as you describe would bump off there Granny 

The same type of people who by there Actions impact on Peoples Pensions - Investments - Society in General and as you say Vultures

Me - I just try and make more Right Decisions in a Day than Wrong Ones - cant say all my Investments are Ethical - Pension Managers decide that - all I can say that in my Business - I pay everyone on time - at a fair Rate and dont shaft anyone 

But I salute your Ethical & Moral  Business Track Record .

 

  

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4 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Ok so you wouldn't be involved in any Organisation that by there Actions would cause untold Misery on Society - and Im therefore assuming you manage your own Pension Portfolio and only make ethical Investments - all very laudable - I can therefore see that from that Position that you can make the assessment of the Vulture Investors who as you describe would bump off there Granny 

The same type of people who by there Actions impact on Peoples Pensions - Investments - Society in General and as you say Vultures

Me - I just try and make more Right Decisions in a Day than Wrong Ones - cant say all my Investments are Ethical - Pension Managers decide that - all I can say that in my Business - I pay everyone on time - at a fair Rate and dont shaft anyone 

But I salute your Ethical & Moral  Business Track Record .

 

  

Does supporting Partick Thistle count ?

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9 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Ok so you wouldn't be involved in any Organisation that by there Actions would cause untold Misery on Society - and Im therefore assuming you manage your own Pension Portfolio and only make ethical Investments - all very laudable - I can therefore see that from that Position that you can make the assessment of the Vulture Investors who as you describe would bump off there Granny 

The same type of people who by there Actions impact on Peoples Pensions - Investments - Society in General and as you say Vultures

Me - I just try and make more Right Decisions in a Day than Wrong Ones - cant say all my Investments are Ethical - Pension Managers decide that - all I can say that in my Business - I pay everyone on time - at a fair Rate and dont shaft anyone 

But I salute your Ethical & Moral  Business Track Record .

 

  

I think I haven’t made myself clear on the different types of people involved in the world of finance there are plenty of decent pension managers who will manage your portfolio on the basis you chose eg green, ethical etc .......they are not the same kind of people involved structured finance or derivatives for example 

but the consortium are are different category simply out to make a buck and don’t really care how they do it or who they damage in the process .....no moral compass and driven by pure greed ....they would kill the club 

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A big thing in the world of venture capitalism now is the concept of venture philanthropy.

I don't know how that fits with your pigeon-holing of people into evil and otherwise, but I am quite sure you will get round to telling us.

 

 

 

 

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22 minutes ago, jaf said:

 

A big thing in the world of venture capitalism now is the concept of venture philanthropy.

I don't know how that fits with your pigeon-holing of people into evil and otherwise, but I am quite sure you will get round to telling us.

 

 

 

 

That’s interesting  please explain the connection to Paul Conway ? Big into that is he ? 

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1 hour ago, javeajag said:

I think I haven’t made myself clear on the different types of people involved in the world of finance there are plenty of decent pension managers who will manage your portfolio on the basis you chose eg green, ethical etc .......they are not the same kind of people involved structured finance or derivatives for example 

but the consortium are are different category simply out to make a buck and don’t really care how they do it or who they damage in the process .....no moral compass and driven by pure greed ....they would kill the club 

No but you clearly confirmed you would never get involved in any Financial Investment or Organisation that would cause harm to Society - and we dont know if Paul Conway has a Moral Compass or not - I would suggest that most People on Boards of large Corporate Structures are driven by Money - and they many many failings of Large Companies Recently Carillion - Thomas Cook - RBS - HBOS all had Boards who were being paid large Bonuses as there Companies headed towards Bankruptcy - there impact on Society was devastating costing Billions to TaxPayers - Inverstors - Suppliers -Employees 

Paul Conway buys undervalued Assetts - Builds them up sells them at a Profit - to compare him to those who have caused untold Misery by there Actions whilst Pocketing Large Pensions & Bonuses is grossly unfair and inaccurate to say the least 

Lest we Forget - Taxpayer was Bailing out RBS to the Tune of Billions - Fred Goodwin was walking away with a £5MN Pension - now thats immoral  - If you Read the Book Shredded its scary -  from what I can gather RBS was on the radar of other Major Banks as a Bank that was going to hit a brick wall long before they did - yet they were still having share issues ( which they have now had to settle in Court ) 

So Paul Conway - Buy a Club - Build it up - Punt it - thats just Business - Club is still going - he gets a return -  he is hardly immoral or a Vulture   

   

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Considering that nothing is Happening on this Subject and This thread is devolving Into arguments about the Ethics of capitalism, why don't We all make the thread a place of quiet Contemplation for a While?

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2 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

No but you clearly confirmed you would never get involved in any Financial Investment or Organisation that would cause harm to Society - and we dont know if Paul Conway has a Moral Compass or not - I would suggest that most People on Boards of large Corporate Structures are driven by Money - and they many many failings of Large Companies Recently Carillion - Thomas Cook - RBS - HBOS all had Boards who were being paid large Bonuses as there Companies headed towards Bankruptcy - there impact on Society was devastating costing Billions to TaxPayers - Inverstors - Suppliers -Employees 

Paul Conway buys undervalued Assetts - Builds them up sells them at a Profit - to compare him to those who have caused untold Misery by there Actions whilst Pocketing Large Pensions & Bonuses is grossly unfair and inaccurate to say the least 

Lest we Forget - Taxpayer was Bailing out RBS to the Tune of Billions - Fred Goodwin was walking away with a £5MN Pension - now thats immoral  - If you Read the Book Shredded its scary -  from what I can gather RBS was on the radar of other Major Banks as a Bank that was going to hit a brick wall long before they did - yet they were still having share issues ( which they have now had to settle in Court ) 

So Paul Conway - Buy a Club - Build it up - Punt it - thats just Business - Club is still going - he gets a return -  he is hardly immoral or a Vulture   

   

there’s a lot in there that’s not accurate eg thistle is not an undervalued asset but the company examples you cite kind of make my point 


I think the advice to lay low till we know what’s happening or have some news to discuss is one I will follow 

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1 hour ago, Norgethistle said:

Again

I'm surprised there have been no conspiracy theories about the site being down given the nature of some of the contributions from the thread's more prolific posters. 

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12 minutes ago, admin said:

I'm surprised there have been no conspiracy theories about the site being down given the nature of some of the contributions from the thread's more prolific posters. 

I saw it as a justified and lawful prorogation.

Regarding investments, it's okay to be more idealistic about you football club than your pension fund.

(Though you should do your best with your pension fund too)

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35 minutes ago, admin said:

I'm surprised there have been no conspiracy theories about the site being down given the nature of some of the contributions from the thread's more prolific posters. 

There were Tam but there was no site to post them on

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51 minutes ago, admin said:

I'm surprised there have been no conspiracy theories about the site being down given the nature of some of the contributions from the thread's more prolific posters. 

This is Thistle- a Conspiracy would mean Planning Forethought and Organisation  ?  Lets face it not many Jags Fans possess those qualities or we wouldn't be Jags Fans :D

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So what happened to the site? I thought it was just me that had been banned for being a crap moderator?  Incidentally, the rules I apply come from my friend Callie Arcale who moderated Space.com. for ages. I have very few hero's or heroines, but she is certainly one of them.  If you think that this site is controversial, you ain't seen nothing yet. And, sadly, Space.com no longer has a forum, a.f.a.i.k.

Because their controversy was 'interesting'. You had folk believing in ET, and you had folk that thought they were crazy. But there were corporate interests that appeared to want the site to be in the pocket of capital, and not having folk talk - often rubbish - which wasn't attractive to folk with a buck to make.

I do not want this site to go down that route.

Could we please be as respectful on here of others opinions as if we were meeting face to face?

There has been aggression expressed on here that would start a fight in a  nunnery.

I will do my best to moderate that. However, it is frankly down to you to moderate yourselves.

The more 'interesting' debates are not free of ad hominems nor aggression. You know who you are. Stop it. You'll get a warning, then a temporary ban then a permanent ban. Is that a route you want to pursue?  It is not a road I want to have to follow.

If you do not recognise that as your behaviour then you, probably, have nothing to worry about. If you do recognise that as your behaviour then pause and reflect.

Peace and mutual respect guys and gals.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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From time to time I visit this thread in the vain hope of enlightenment.  It has at last dawned on me that JaveaJag and Jordanhill Jag are in fact one and the same person, and that the endless, pointless, fake exhanges are simply a way of increasing site traffic and thereby boosting advertising rates.  

It's all a capitalist plot, and I suspect that Admin is behind it; which explains their reluctance to call and end to the whole sorry episode.

 

 

Edited by eljaggo
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eljaggo,

Fascinating.

It flies directly in the face of the issues. Which, for all their obvious faults, neither party, Jordanhill Jag nor JaveaJag  could realistically be accused of failing to address.  It is what they do. Controversy is good. It is what a web site expects. It is fuel for further discussion.

I kind of doubt that our good friends Jordanhill Jag or JaveaJag have the impact on the media that you imply.

This, it seems to me, to be local.

I am unaware of why admin ought to close down anything.It is not my call, but why, exactly?

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I'd be quite happy if this thread was closed. Not because  of worries about the debate as differences of opinion are good (otherwise why hold elections). But frankly the thread is boring, of little relevance and despite visiting from time to time on what could be one of the most important Jag issues for years I always leave none the wiser or even entertained. Maybe a closure would let someone open up a thread in the future that has something we can debate once more is known. In the meantime, I'll pay more attention to the election as the spectacle of drying paint will probably be far more interesting and at least I know there'll  be an end point.

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