Jump to content

Jag

New Owner

douglas clark

'Tis not the job of a moderator to stop people writing here. The rules are pretty simple:

reported ad hominem attacks will be investigated (and if found to be true) or write stuff that could get the site into trouble

and you'll either be warned / your post deleted, or - worst case scenario -  banned either temporarily or permanently.

This particular thread has had a vigorous exchange of views, and perhaps more heat than light. But the quality of the debate - it seems to me at least - is down to the lack of information.  That, in and of itself, means that whatever side you happen to be on is for a fan, very frustrating.

So, I have no intention of closing threads just because the quality of the postings isn't great. That is not the role of a moderator.

If you wake up the following morning you can always delete something you wish you'd never said.

 

 

 

 

 

Message added by douglas clark

Recommended Posts

On 11/2/2019 at 10:50 AM, javeajag said:

I’m still not clear on how they are any better except by staying silent ?

J Low’s board thought Caldwell was wonderful and appointed him.

Current board saw he was mince and sacked him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Big Col said:

J Low’s board thought Caldwell was wonderful and appointed him.

Current board saw he was mince and sacked him.

Beginning to look as though they've brought in McCall and Archiebald as the fall guys for relegetion! :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i don't think we will get relegated but if form continues its going to get harder to reach play offs

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, Big Col said:

J Low’s board thought Caldwell was wonderful and appointed him.

Current board saw he was mince and sacked him.

Raises the age old question of how most boards are qualified to select a football manager in the first place.

Beattie & Co, along with I assume, Ian Maxwell, decided to retain Archie. A decision, which in hindsight was most likely wrong. J Low & Co, along with Gerry B, decided to fire Archie, which I believe most of us believe was the correct decision. One up to Low. Beattie & Co sack Caldwell, undoubtedly the right decision. That's only all square in my book. It does look like reappointing McCall is a feather in the cap for Beattie but that's still very much in the wait and see category.

Further, as Britton was involved in sacking Archie I think it's highly likely he was involved in the appointment of Caldwell. Beattie retains the services of Britton despite the implication he was party to one of our most disastrous managerial appointments. Guess what I'm trying to convey is while J Low's tenure is highly tarnished, Beattie hasn't always covered himself in glory either. 

Edited by lady-isobel-barnett
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

Raises the age old question of how most boards are qualified to select a football manager in the first place.

Beattie & Co, along with I assume, Ian Maxwell, decided to retain Archie. A decision, which in hindsight was most likely wrong. J Low & Co, along with Gerry B, decided to fire Archie, which I believe most of us believe was the correct decision. One up to Low. Beattie & Co sack Caldwell, undoubtedly the right decision. That's only all square in my book. It does look like reappointing McCall is a feather in the cap for Beattie but that's still very much in the wait and see category.

Further, as Britton was involved in sacking Archie I think it's highly likely he was involved in the appointment of Caldwell. Beattie retains the services of Britton despite the implication he was party to one of our most disastrous managerial appointments. Guess what I'm trying to convey is while J Low's tenure is highly tarnished, Beattie hasn't always covered himself in glory either. 

I believe the whole board took a decision to keep Archie which included Low as she was on the board

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

Raises the age old question of how most boards are qualified to select a football manager in the first place.

Beattie & Co, along with I assume, Ian Maxwell, decided to retain Archie. A decision, which in hindsight was most likely wrong. J Low & Co, along with Gerry B, decided to fire Archie, which I believe most of us believe was the correct decision. One up to Low. Beattie & Co sack Caldwell, undoubtedly the right decision. That's only all square in my book. It does look like reappointing McCall is a feather in the cap for Beattie but that's still very much in the wait and see category.

Further, as Britton was involved in sacking Archie I think it's highly likely he was involved in the appointment of Caldwell. Beattie retains the services of Britton despite the implication he was party to one of our most disastrous managerial appointments. Guess what I'm trying to convey is while J Low's tenure is highly tarnished, Beattie hasn't always covered himself in glory either. 

I get that you have started the scoring only in the last couple of years. But maybe the scoring should start from Beattie & Co’s appointment or at least when Archie replaced McNamara ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Lenziejag said:

I get that you have started the scoring only in the last couple of years. But maybe the scoring should start from Beattie & Co’s appointment or at least when Archie replaced McNamara ?

Aye you're right, and I'm far happier Beattie is in charge than Low. That said any weight of concern is on the now and I'm merely pointing out that Beattie hasn't necessarily got all his recent decisions correct.

Edited by lady-isobel-barnett

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

Raises the age old question of how most boards are qualified to select a football manager in the first place.

Beattie & Co, along with I assume, Ian Maxwell, decided to retain Archie. A decision, which in hindsight was most likely wrong. J Low & Co, along with Gerry B, decided to fire Archie, which I believe most of us believe was the correct decision. One up to Low. Beattie & Co sack Caldwell, undoubtedly the right decision. That's only all square in my book. It does look like reappointing McCall is a feather in the cap for Beattie but that's still very much in the wait and see category.

Further, as Britton was involved in sacking Archie I think it's highly likely he was involved in the appointment of Caldwell. Beattie retains the services of Britton despite the implication he was party to one of our most disastrous managerial appointments. Guess what I'm trying to convey is while J Low's tenure is highly tarnished, Beattie hasn't always covered himself in glory either. 

A point that rational minds will accept. As I've said on one of the Facebook groups, the rot set in the minute we finished sixth in the top flight. No one, no Chairman, Chief Executive, General Manager, manager or player (with the notable exception of Scott McDonald) has appeared capable of curing it.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

Aye you're right, and I'm far happier Beattie is in charge than Low. That said any weight of concern is on the now and I'm merely pointing out that Beattie hasn't necessarily got all his recent decisions correct.

Agree with that. He hasn’t got all his past decisions right either. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Dark Passenger said:

A point that rational minds will accept. As I've said on one of the Facebook groups, the rot set in the minute we finished sixth in the top flight. No one, no Chairman, Chief Executive, General Manager, manager or player (with the notable exception of Scott McDonald) has appeared capable of curing it.

I agree 100% - Complacency and a Sense of Entitlement Crept in - we had all the Trappings of a Top 6 Club-  but none of the Focus and Professionalism -and that Applies Equally to Players - Backroom Staff and Non Playing Staff - we carried more Passengers that Easyjet - Problem is that Culture is very difficult to remove- that you view Yourself as a Premier Club - problem is this is a Sport - Trappings of a Big Club doesn't match the Grim Determination that creates a Winning Team - and this includes Academies & Training Grounds - Womens Teams blah blah  

We simply seemed to have lost the Hunger & Desire as a Club From the Boardroom to the Playing Field - Clubs Like Hamilton - Livingston seem to have this - we dont 

A Senior Person in Falkirk once told me the worst thing that ever happened to them was a Top 6 Finish in the Premier - I now know what he means 

So how do you cure it - very simple get back to basics - drop everything that doesn't get Wins on the Park - everything - Staff - Coaches - Hangers on - Be a Football Team First - look at Ayr United infrastructure - copy it - person for person - everything they do or dont do - Copy it 

If they dont have a Womens Team - dont have a Womens Team - If they dont have a Cheif Exec - dont have a Cheif Exec - Copy it 

Because it works- and what we have doesn't ......... 

 

    

 

       

Edited by Jordanhill Jag

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

I agree 100% - Complacency and a Sense of Entitlement Crept in - we had all the Trappings of a Top 6 Club-  but none of the Focus and Professionalism -and that Applies Equally to Players - Backroom Staff and Non Playing Staff - we carried more Passengers that Easyjet - Problem is that Culture is very difficult to remove- that you view Yourself as a Premier Club - problem is this is a Sport - Trappings of a Big Club doesn't match the Grim Determination that creates a Winning Team - and this includes Academies & Training Grounds - Womens Teams blah blah  

We simply seemed to have lost the Hunger & Desire as a Club From the Boardroom to the Playing Field - Clubs Like Hamilton - Livingston seem to have this - we dont 

A Senior Person in Falkirk once told me the worst thing that ever happened to them was a Top 6 Finish in the Premier - I now know what he means 

So how do you cure it - very simple get back to basics - drop everything that doesn't get Wins on the Park - everything - Staff - Coaches - Hangers on - Be a Football Team First - look at Ayr United infrastructure - copy it - person for person - everything they do or dont do - Copy it 

If they dont have a Womens Team - dont have a Womens Team - If they dont have a Cheif Exec - dont have a Cheif Exec - Copy it 

Because it works- and what we have doesn't ......... 

 

    

 

       

Can we go back to 1936 as well ? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, javeajag said:

Can we go back to 1936 as well ? 

Its very simple - the objective is to win Football Games as Partick Thistle FC 

to do so you drop everything that doesnt have that objective - Ayr United have a flat simple cheap model - they deliver far more points per £ than Thistle do 

so whatever they are doing copy it 

We are not a Social Cause - we are Professional Team in the Championship - you want success - be that and that alone .. 

We cannot afford anything else in money or resource 

 

 

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

I agree 100% - Complacency and a Sense of Entitlement Crept in - we had all the Trappings of a Top 6 Club-  but none of the Focus and Professionalism -and that Applies Equally to Players - Backroom Staff and Non Playing Staff - we carried more Passengers that Easyjet - Problem is that Culture is very difficult to remove- that you view Yourself as a Premier Club - problem is this is a Sport - Trappings of a Big Club doesn't match the Grim Determination that creates a Winning Team - and this includes Academies & Training Grounds - Womens Teams blah blah  

We simply seemed to have lost the Hunger & Desire as a Club From the Boardroom to the Playing Field - Clubs Like Hamilton - Livingston seem to have this - we dont 

A Senior Person in Falkirk once told me the worst thing that ever happened to them was a Top 6 Finish in the Premier - I now know what he means 

So how do you cure it - very simple get back to basics - drop everything that doesn't get Wins on the Park - everything - Staff - Coaches - Hangers on - Be a Football Team First - look at Ayr United infrastructure - copy it - person for person - everything they do or dont do - Copy it 

If they dont have a Womens Team - dont have a Womens Team - If they dont have a Cheif Exec - dont have a Cheif Exec - Copy it 

Because it works- and what we have doesn't .........

Sounds a bit like the bowling club model! :thinking:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Its very simple - the objective is to win Football Games as Partick Thistle FC 

to do so you drop everything that doesnt have that objective - Ayr United have a flat simple cheap model - they deliver far more points per £ than Thistle do 

so whatever they are doing copy it 

We are not a Social Cause - we are Professional Team in the Championship - you want success - be that and that alone .. 

We cannot afford anything else in money or resource 

 

 

 

 

There is no causal  relationship between any of the things you mention and ayrs on field performance indeed for most of the  well forever nearly ayr have performed poorly with all the factors you mention.

the studies that have been done into football clearly indicate the biggest predictor of football success is how much you pay players which is why the clubs with most revenue will do well ....in our league we are underperforming on that basis 

so why are we underperforming? Because we have a women’s team eh no ( that might actually help broaden our fan base and bring in more revenue )  but because we 

1, kept Archie on way too long 

2. made the wrong appointment in Caldwell

3. invested in the wrong players 
 

and that relates to the very important point of getting the right manager 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, javeajag said:

 

the studies that have been done into football clearly indicate the biggest predictor of football success is how much you pay players which is why the clubs with most revenue will do well ....in our league we are underperforming on that basis 

so why are we underperforming? Because we have a women’s team eh no ( that might actually help broaden our fan base and bring in more revenue )  but because we 

1, kept Archie on way too long 

2. made the wrong appointment in Caldwell

3. invested in the wrong players 
 

and that relates to the very important point of getting the right manager 

We have the 3rd highest wage bill in the league (as was mentioned on Radio Scotland) yet our squad is unbalanced, threadbare, and probably the worst in the league in terms of total ability, speed and depth. Questions need to be asked who sanctioned the sign off on paying this dross so much. If rumors are true our 2 oldest players collect nearly £5k a week between them and are the two highest paid in the squad (That’s basic wage before bonuses). Caldwell (and those signing off on his horrendous signings) must have been an agents dream.  That and signing a guy who was recovering from a  near career ending injury who then failed an initial medical, shows how out of control our budget was.


The bigger issue is we will struggle to offload most of this squad in January due to their wages.

Having to pay Caldwell off is money well spent, and if the board hadn’t changed when it did he had aspirations of signing 4 more on very high wages, leaving us more in a mess.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/2/2019 at 5:17 PM, Jordanhill Jag said:

In Communications you can operate Spin and in reality say nothing  - or if you have nothing substantial to say - you can say nothing   

So TFE who you support have said Nothing for at least a Month - but you seem ok with that ?  

Again the mantra of one group versus the other.

"Your group is wrong so mine must be right"

This does us no favours. We have to judge all actions on their own merits. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Norgethistle said:

We have the 3rd highest wage bill in the league (as was mentioned on Radio Scotland) yet our squad is unbalanced, threadbare, and probably the worst in the league in terms of total ability, speed and depth. Questions need to be asked who sanctioned the sign off on paying this dross so much. If rumors are true our 2 oldest players collect nearly £5k a week between them and are the two highest paid in the squad (That’s basic wage before bonuses). Caldwell (and those signing off on his horrendous signings) must have been an agents dream.  That and signing a guy who was recovering from a  near career ending injury who then failed an initial medical, shows how out of control our budget was.


The bigger issue is we will struggle to offload most of this squad in January due to their wages.

Having to pay Caldwell off is money well spent, and if the board hadn’t changed when it did he had aspirations of signing 4 more on very high wages, leaving us more in a mess.

I agree we are underperforming.

i find it hard to believe that Caldwell managed all the contract negotiations for the squad with no involvement with Britton or Beattie .....Britton in fact seems to get a fee pass on just about everything .....so you imagine that they signed off what Caldwell wanted to do 

Austin for example was signed on July 24th so Beattie and Britton sanctioned that one so they must take responsibility ....they could have said no 

Edited by javeajag

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What is the latest on Austin. Is there any expectation he will be fit to play this season? Someone must know....

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, javeajag said:

I agree we are underperforming.

i find it hard to believe that Caldwell managed all the contract negotiations for the squad with no involvement with Britton or Beattie .....Britton in fact seems to get a fee pass on just about everything .....so you imagine that they signed off what Caldwell wanted to do 

Austin for example was signed on July 24th so Beattie and Britton sanctioned that one so they must take responsibility ....they could have said no 

Austin deal was agreed in principal prior to Beattie coming on but yes he could or should have stepped in.

I agree with you that Britton seems to get a free pass and he shouldn’t, I do sometimes wonder if he merely signs the form at the managers behalf or whether he questions or negotiates. Perhaps his remit is to “Just sign it”

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

Austin deal was agreed in principal prior to Beattie coming on but yes he could or should have stepped in.

I agree with you that Britton seems to get a free pass and he shouldn’t, I do sometimes wonder if he merely signs the form at the managers behalf or whether he questions or negotiates. Perhaps his remit is to “Just sign it”

No club gives a manager a completely free hand unless they are crazy ......we clearly have a budget and a limit to how much we can spend so you would  ‘think’ the CEO is managing that part of the process 

player recruitment over the last three seasons has been dreadful and the one constant throughout it has been Britton 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, scotty said:

Sounds a bit like the bowling club model! :thinking:

Nope - it owned by a Highly Successful Businessman and he uses a lean mean Business Model which is 100% focussed on Results on the Park there £ to Points Ratio is massive - so what they have shown is that you dont need a massive budget to be successful - what you need to do is drop all the stuff that isnt relevant   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, javeajag said:

No club gives a manager a completely free hand unless they are crazy ......we clearly have a budget and a limit to how much we can spend so you would  ‘think’ the CEO is managing that part of the process 

player recruitment over the last three seasons has been dreadful and the one constant throughout it has been Britton 

It was poor the last Two Seasons under Maxi Also ?  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, allyo said:

Again the mantra of one group versus the other.

"Your group is wrong so mine must be right"

This does us no favours. We have to judge all actions on their own merits. 

No - I think that Comms has to improve - however on the Takeover I think its more complicated than putting on a deadline - TFE who if the Press are to believed have hit the same issue - therefore I think we have to accept that updates on this matter are not easy 

I would rather nothing than Spin 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

Austin deal was agreed in principal prior to Beattie coming on but yes he could or should have stepped in.

I agree with you that Britton seems to get a free pass and he shouldn’t, I do sometimes wonder if he merely signs the form at the managers behalf or whether he questions or negotiates. Perhaps his remit is to “Just sign it”

Given his fast experience in Football which was a key part of him being the CEO than he obviously has an input  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, javeajag said:

No club gives a manager a completely free hand unless they are crazy ......we clearly have a budget and a limit to how much we can spend so you would  ‘think’ the CEO is managing that part of the process 

player recruitment over the last three seasons has been dreadful and the one constant throughout it has been Britton 

At times we are a club unlike any other, so nothing would surprise me

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×