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Jag

New Owner

douglas clark

'Tis not the job of a moderator to stop people writing here. The rules are pretty simple:

reported ad hominem attacks will be investigated (and if found to be true) or write stuff that could get the site into trouble

and you'll either be warned / your post deleted, or - worst case scenario -  banned either temporarily or permanently.

This particular thread has had a vigorous exchange of views, and perhaps more heat than light. But the quality of the debate - it seems to me at least - is down to the lack of information.  That, in and of itself, means that whatever side you happen to be on is for a fan, very frustrating.

So, I have no intention of closing threads just because the quality of the postings isn't great. That is not the role of a moderator.

If you wake up the following morning you can always delete something you wish you'd never said.

 

 

 

 

 

Message added by douglas clark

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35 minutes ago, Fearchar said:

Pity, really - it would have been nice to see Zlatan in the red and yellow. Alternatively, a player-owner might have been an interesting innovation in Scottish football. :lol:

Colin Weir could probably cover right back

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8 hours ago, scotty said:

That's fine but will you get involved so you can have a say in who gets to be part of the day to day running of the club?

Yep - once we find out how to get involved, I’ll be right there.

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3 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Where have I said its a bad deal ? 

Pointing out who actually owns the Club is being against it how 

However the original Plan as stated was TFE Buying the Club with unconditional financial support from Colin Weir - instead we got a Limited Company with its own Directors buying the Club 

Ive made no judgments either way on the merits of this - so please stick to the facts 

 

 

So broadly speaking you are happy with the deal?

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10 hours ago, Dark Passenger said:

?

Why wouldn't it first issue a communication to those who supported it? Those whose email addresses it has? 

And, correct me if I'm wrong, but TFE hasn't purchased the shares. So what would you expect it to say to the wider fan base?

I would expect it to announce what it intended to do to all, not just it's wee select few gang of numbers. Already starting to sound like the jags trust

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10 hours ago, javeajag said:

Why not ask them 

Cause nobody knows who they are and they don't communicate, kinda like that other mob you were berating funnily enough

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10 hours ago, scotty said:

If you send them your e-mail address I'm sure they'll send you the statement too. Otherwise you may need to wait till they update their web-site.

Again already feels like the jags trust, keep everyone else in the dark apart from a select few. They will get nothing from me until they prove worthy. The website hmmm last update September...could be waiting a while.

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Right onto business - Colin Weir, Dr Charan Gill MBE, Ian Dodd, Alan Caldwell, Andrew Byron and John Penman have all been confirmed -

Colin Weir - Understandable he paid the dough

Charan Gill - Business Mind (did he not try or was involved with us in the 90'?)

Ian Dodd - Fair enough

But...Can someone explain to me who Alan Caldwell, Andrew Byron & John Penman are and what they will bring to the club in a business sense?

**Never mind, got answer myself = Trust Gimps!

Edited by Pinhead

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1 hour ago, Pinhead said:

Cause nobody knows who they are and they don't communicate, kinda like that other mob you were berating funnily enough

It shouldnt be for us to track them down and try to establish how we go about getting involved. It should  open to every fan  with a clear explanation of how to become involved.

If that happens and I can see how I can be involved and how I could translate my thoughts/ opinions to the Board.. If I could be assured that my views and opinions would be taken into account and I could directly influence things , then yes I would invest my money.

My grave concern is that it will be fan ownership in name only an that  the real  control will remain in the hands of a select few .

 

 

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2 hours ago, Pinhead said:

Right onto business - Colin Weir, Dr Charan Gill MBE, Ian Dodd, Alan Caldwell, Andrew Byron and John Penman have all been confirmed -

Colin Weir - Understandable he paid the dough

Charan Gill - Business Mind (did he not try or was involved with us in the 90'?)

Ian Dodd - Fair enough

But...Can someone explain to me who Alan Caldwell, Andrew Byron & John Penman are and what they will bring to the club in a business sense?

**Never mind, got answer myself = Trust Gimps!

Alan Caldwell, civil servant,

Andrew Byron, banker

John Penman, journalist

I don't know about them personally, however in principle, that is not a bad set of skills to have on the board

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Just a wee bit amused at the journalist being called Penman.

But Caldwell can get tae. .. :thumbsup2:

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1 hour ago, Emsca said:

It shouldnt be for us to track them down and try to establish how we go about getting involved. It should  open to every fan  with a clear explanation of how to become involved.

If that happens and I can see how I can be involved and how I could translate my thoughts/ opinions to the Board.. If I could be assured that my views and opinions would be taken into account and I could directly influence things , then yes I would invest my money.

My grave concern is that it will be fan ownership in name only an that  the real  control will remain in the hands of a select few .

 

 

I realise that this is not what you are suggesting but reading your post reminded me of Ebbsfleet United and the MyFootballClub saga. An interesting story.

 

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3 hours ago, Pinhead said:

Cause nobody knows who they are and they don't communicate, kinda like that other mob you were berating funnily enough

Rubbish 

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30 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said:

Alan Caldwell, civil servant,

Andrew Byron, banker

John Penman, journalist

I don't know about them personally, however in principle, that is not a bad set of skills to have on the board

One has a background in finance , one in risk management and one in communication add in charan gill and ian Dodd fir continuity then it looks fine which is reinforced by the fact that the moaning on board membership evaporated .....

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7 hours ago, dl1971 said:

So broadly speaking you are happy with the deal?

Havent commented either way - so No idea where you get that from 

Currently the Club is owned in majority by 3blackcats - its Directors  have control as majority shareholders - they pick the Board and can make key decisions 

Any intended Fan Ownership Model will be decided by 3blackcats 

I think people are jumping the gun - we dont actually know  what the plans are-  or who is in charge of the Club ? 

Social Media is talking about people "returning back this morning"  and having been involved still to be confirmed if thats Physical or legally 

Some TFE Supporters now talking about "having to go back to go forward" or certain arrangements being a defacto package deal - so long long way to go before we start talking about Fans controlling the Club 

just hope TFE are true to there word ref who is involved ( or not ) as Fans took them at that ............. 

 

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2 hours ago, javeajag said:

One has a background in finance , one in risk management and one in communication add in charan gill and ian Dodd fir continuity then it looks fine which is reinforced by the fact that the moaning on board membership evaporated .....

So the Nominated Board Members & Colin Weir are 100% the only people who are making decisions regards ( apart from Gerry B etc ) 

There is 100% No one else involved in the Running of the Club outwith the Directors - your sure about that ?   

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4 hours ago, Emsca said:

It shouldnt be for us to track them down and try to establish how we go about getting involved. It should  open to every fan  with a clear explanation of how to become involved.

If that happens and I can see how I can be involved and how I could translate my thoughts/ opinions to the Board.. If I could be assured that my views and opinions would be taken into account and I could directly influence things , then yes I would invest my money.

My grave concern is that it will be fan ownership in name only an that  the real  control will remain in the hands of a select few .

 

 

Funny enough your not alone in that concern ..... 

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7 hours ago, javeajag said:

That’s his plan......

So for clarity he walks away - threeblackcats - hand over shares to fans - no involvement from him or anyone associated with him on any level 

everyone that has anything to do with decisions at the Club is there via open elections 

This is what TFE promised 

But they also promised other stuff - so lets see what happens .............  

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11 hours ago, stolenscone said:

For what it’s worth, my take is that Colin Weir’s behaviour in this matter is entirely consistent with his previous behaviour:

A previous poster queried why he hadn’t made funds available when we were in the top league or last winter when things were looking dire. But as far as I’m aware, all previous “investments” (donations?) have been of a long term, structural nature — paying off debt; maintaining the Academy; proposed training ground.

I’m sure there has been as hoc support behind the scenes, but at no point has the support been in the manner of short term funds to blow on overpriced short term player signings. In other words, it’s largely been about structural legacy support, not short term gain.

I view the share purchase and subsequent promise to return shares into a fan controlled structure in the same light.

Others may have inside knowledge to the contrary, but I’ve never seen evidence of self serving gain or him going back on public statements, so at present, I have no reason to disbelieve his most recent statement about fan ownership.

Yes, the eventual structure might not suit everyone, but to my mind (a) it’s his money and he has bought the right to make the decision on fan ownership / next steps; and (b) his past conduct buys credibility and goodwill in the short term while the detail is worked out.

The rest is largely unknown and will only become apparent in time.

(Bye the way, with all the talk of interim board appointments, I’m astonished that my phone hasn’t rung once in the last couple of days.)*
 

* Joke, for those unable to tell.

Its the unknowns that are  the concern 

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3 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Its the unknowns that are  the concern 

Absolutely. Any takeover is fraught with concern. As I have stated before I wanted neither bids to happen. I would have preferred Beattie and co to stay. But now that it has happened we must accept it.

I do have great reservations regards a fan run club. Fans can be guided by emotion rather than pragmatism.  They are dreamers, as I am, but dreams that are not practical can crash and burn and take a club with it.

The fact that the takeover by Weir has changed from supporting a fan based takeover to a majority buy out concerns me. Three Black Cats now own Partick Thistle FC and Firhill Stadium. This smacks of the Conway consortium of which people rubbished at every opportunity. 

Who ade Three Black Cats, who are the people behind them? OK, we know of one, and the shabby history of that individual, but who are they?. What do they really want? Colin Weir apparently uses this set up as an investment vehicle and an advisory one. What would stop him being advised wrongly and it being detrimental to the club?

The interim board has been announced and throws up questions regards who they are and why they are the ones chosen. Gill and Dodd we know if, particularly Dodd, but of the others??. And the announcement of AN Other to join the board fills me with dread. Is that being left open for an ex member if the PTFC board? Concerning.

Regards Colin Weir. I think it is seemingly  admirable that he has poured this money into the club directly this time, but at what price to the club? He is ageing and seemingly in ill health. That raises the spectre of  a mileson at Gretna. After his death, the family pulled the plug on the club and we see what happened. 

If he is genuinely going to hand over the club to the fans, does he sit tight and doesn't add to the budget, although I believe the interim board has intimated that it will support the manager in January, when the fans takeover then they will have to go with the monies available to run the club and that is dependant on which division we are in, can they cope without extra capital from Weir?

If Weir does throw cash at the squad, would it be sustainable? A club like ours cannot ling term sustain big spends and if they dont come off we will spiral out of control.

When the proposed fan takeover was announced it was stated that the training complex was back on the agenda, now it seems it's to be an community complex elsewhere? Why the change? Is it convenience. A sweetener for the fans beforehand and then when the takeover is successful just do what we want?

Lastly, although I have other concerns, this tweet put on by a friend of our ex chairman let's it be interpreted as she was behind this takeover all along and is pulling the strings and then is removed?. Shady to say the least. 

 

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5 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

So the Nominated Board Members & Colin Weir are 100% the only people who are making decisions regards ( apart from Gerry B etc ) 

There is 100% No one else involved in the Running of the Club outwith the Directors - your sure about that ?   

I’ve just discovered that Elvis is controlling the board from mars.....and I don’t know what your talking about so spit it out or move on

In any event this board will be done in 18 weeks 

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5 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

So for clarity he walks away - threeblackcats - hand over shares to fans - no involvement from him or anyone associated with him on any level 

everyone that has anything to do with decisions at the Club is there via open elections 

This is what TFE promised 

But they also promised other stuff - so lets see what happens .............  

Ok this is becoming tedious .....

colin weir has said he will be gift his shares to a NEW fan/community organization by 31 March and has tasked the PTFC trust and tfe in conjunction with the fan base to create this new organization. I have no reason to believe that is not  the plan. The labeling of the board as interim and rotating chair support this.

you keep going in about tfe when clearly the major group in this clearly the PTFC trust ...seats  on board, access to the season ticket holders etc 

as you have said this is not tfe taking over the club and your still moaning  

Edited by javeajag

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54 minutes ago, Garscube Road End said:

Absolutely. Any takeover is fraught with concern. As I have stated before I wanted neither bids to happen. I would have preferred Beattie and co to stay. But now that it has happened we must accept it.

I do have great reservations regards a fan run club. Fans can be guided by emotion rather than pragmatism.  They are dreamers, as I am, but dreams that are not practical can crash and burn and take a club with it.

The fact that the takeover by Weir has changed from supporting a fan based takeover to a majority buy out concerns me. Three Black Cats now own Partick Thistle FC and Firhill Stadium. This smacks of the Conway consortium of which people rubbished at every opportunity. 

Who ade Three Black Cats, who are the people behind them? OK, we know of one, and the shabby history of that individual, but who are they?. What do they really want? Colin Weir apparently uses this set up as an investment vehicle and an advisory one. What would stop him being advised wrongly and it being detrimental to the club?

The interim board has been announced and throws up questions regards who they are and why they are the ones chosen. Gill and Dodd we know if, particularly Dodd, but of the others??. And the announcement of AN Other to join the board fills me with dread. Is that being left open for an ex member if the PTFC board? Concerning.

Regards Colin Weir. I think it is seemingly  admirable that he has poured this money into the club directly this time, but at what price to the club? He is ageing and seemingly in ill health. That raises the spectre of  a mileson at Gretna. After his death, the family pulled the plug on the club and we see what happened. 

If he is genuinely going to hand over the club to the fans, does he sit tight and doesn't add to the budget, although I believe the interim board has intimated that it will support the manager in January, when the fans takeover then they will have to go with the monies available to run the club and that is dependant on which division we are in, can they cope without extra capital from Weir?

If Weir does throw cash at the squad, would it be sustainable? A club like ours cannot ling term sustain big spends and if they dont come off we will spiral out of control.

When the proposed fan takeover was announced it was stated that the training complex was back on the agenda, now it seems it's to be an community complex elsewhere? Why the change? Is it convenience. A sweetener for the fans beforehand and then when the takeover is successful just do what we want?

Lastly, although I have other concerns, this tweet put on by a friend of our ex chairman let's it be interpreted as she was behind this takeover all along and is pulling the strings and then is removed?. Shady to say the least. 

 

To compare Colin weir ( three black cats is just a company Colin weir set up .....he owns 100% of it .....) to Paul Conway is frankly disgraceful .....Conway thought he could get a cheap asset and turn it into the third force of Scottish football and get European football by spending literally none if his own money ....he was a charlatan 

I could go on but really .....conspiracy theories are hard to dispel...... but I get it Jacqui low will become  the owner of the club,bankrupt  us and then sell us to Clyde .....I’m assured this is happening on April 1

everyone outside us thinks this is great deal for the club and the fans ....it is 

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22 minutes ago, javeajag said:

To compare Colin weir ( three black cats is just a company Colin weir set up .....he owns 100% of it .....) to Paul Conway is frankly disgraceful .....Conway thought he could get a cheap asset and turn it into the third force of Scottish football and get European football by spending literally none if his own money ....he was a charlatan 

I could go on but really .....conspiracy theories are hard to dispel...... but I get it Jacqui low will become  the owner of the club,bankrupt  us and then sell us to Clyde .....I’m assured this is happening on April 1

everyone outside us thinks this is great deal for the club and the fans ....it is 

My opinion, your opinion, you just seem a wee bit raw of any criticism of Mr. Weir and TBC, then you spit your dummy out in your second last paragraph. Have a great day.

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