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Jag

New Owner

douglas clark

'Tis not the job of a moderator to stop people writing here. The rules are pretty simple:

reported ad hominem attacks will be investigated (and if found to be true) or write stuff that could get the site into trouble

and you'll either be warned / your post deleted, or - worst case scenario -  banned either temporarily or permanently.

This particular thread has had a vigorous exchange of views, and perhaps more heat than light. But the quality of the debate - it seems to me at least - is down to the lack of information.  That, in and of itself, means that whatever side you happen to be on is for a fan, very frustrating.

So, I have no intention of closing threads just because the quality of the postings isn't great. That is not the role of a moderator.

If you wake up the following morning you can always delete something you wish you'd never said.

 

 

 

 

 

Message added by douglas clark

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5 hours ago, Woodstock Jag said:

I’ve read elsewhere that the last time we were in the second tier the Club didn’t *always* have a bus to get to games, especially if they were local.

On the one hand, seems perfectly sensible not to spend money unnecessarily to take 20 people half an hour up the road.

On the other hand, if the club’s being forced to make decisions like that (and place it even in the context of cost cutting measures like the Colin Weir Stand getting shut) that does suggest a degree of financial frailty and pressure.

I still have a sneaky suspicion that this consortium will take one look at our 2018-19 accounts when published and disappear as soon as they arrived.

Pretty sure they won’t have to wait until the accounts are published. They will be looking at the management accounts as well.

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6 hours ago, Woodstock Jag said:

I’ve read elsewhere that the last time we were in the second tier the Club didn’t *always* have a bus to get to games, especially if they were local.

On the one hand, seems perfectly sensible not to spend money unnecessarily to take 20 people half an hour up the road.

On the other hand, if the club’s being forced to make decisions like that (and place it even in the context of cost cutting measures like the Colin Weir Stand getting shut) that does suggest a degree of financial frailty and pressure.

I still have a sneaky suspicion that this consortium will take one look at our 2018-19 accounts when published and disappear as soon as they arrived.

A sneaky suspicion based on actually nothing.....

the potential new owners will have access to all past and current financial information, we are debt free and have no banking facilities....they will have known all of that before they even picked up the phone 

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19 hours ago, Auld Jag said:

Unlike the current Prime Minister.

Very topical AJ

 

IMG-20190801-WA0003.jpg

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6 hours ago, Woodstock Jag said:

I’ve read elsewhere that the last time we were in the second tier the Club didn’t *always* have a bus to get to games, especially if they were local.

On the one hand, seems perfectly sensible not to spend money unnecessarily to take 20 people half an hour up the road.

On the other hand, if the club’s being forced to make decisions like that (and place it even in the context of cost cutting measures like the Colin Weir Stand getting shut) that does suggest a degree of financial frailty and pressure.

I still have a sneaky suspicion that this consortium will take one look at our 2018-19 accounts when published and disappear as soon as they arrived.

If our accounts are actually  as bad as you allude to and appears with cost cutting, then changing the board was the correct thing to do

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1 minute ago, Norgethistle said:

If our accounts are actually  as bad as you allude to and appears with cost cutting, then changing the board was the correct thing to do

The Board changing is a means to an end, more to to do with Beattie , Dodd etc making sure they get their shares sold , less to do with the perceived wellbeing of the Club .

Just an opinion 

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5 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

If our accounts are actually  as bad as you allude to and appears with cost cutting, then changing the board was the correct thing to do

I thought you were the man with the inside knowledge or is the leaker no longer at the club?

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The problem for me is the lack of verifiable facts. Everything around here is rumour built on very narrow foundations.

Will probably turn up for the Saturday event.

 

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47 minutes ago, Fawlty Towers said:

I thought you were the man with the inside knowledge or is the leaker no longer at the club?

All is quiet, so he or she can’t be there anymore 

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18 hours ago, Norgethistle said:

The new board have been in place for 3 weeks so if any financial issues are there it won’t caused by them but may be uncovered by them.

As for bus to game, several teams in our league have players travel to away games themselves depending on location. Why have guys drive from Edinburgh or Dundee to Glasgow to bus back to Stirling? 

a lot of the players used to meet the Bus at Cumbernauld - so reality is it would have been half empty then the Players at the pick up would have been on it for circa 15 minutes ? 

Previously in the Championship players met at the Stadium and this included Grounds like Dunfermline - so to an extent its just going back to what it was ref Travel - this should have happened as soon as we were relegated  

 

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2 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

a lot of the players used to meet the Bus at Cumbernauld - so reality is it would have been half empty then the Players at the pick up would have been on it for circa 15 minutes ? 

Previously in the Championship players met at the Stadium and this included Grounds like Dunfermline - so to an extent its just going back to what it was ref Travel - this should have happened as soon as we were relegated  

 

Do they change  this for 4/5 trips to Dundee this season or Arbroath and Inverness ?

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1 hour ago, policemans whistle said:

Don't know anything about how take-overs work, but would guess that if a fee for the club has been agreed, then no money could be spent until the full take-over is concluded.

Ok.....not necessarily the case as that would mean you wouldn’t pay anything eg wages.....there maybe some agreement on contracts or future expenditure but this would be agreed between the parties

if your buying something you would not force decisions that would damage your investment 

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2 hours ago, Norgethistle said:

If our accounts are actually  as bad as you allude to and appears with cost cutting, then changing the board was the correct thing to do

And if it turns out it was not then I’m not sure what was behind the change other than maybe some on the new board are destined to sell and make money out of it. Who really knows apart from the 2 boards

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1 hour ago, jlsarmy said:

Do they change  this for 4/5 trips to Dundee this season or Arbroath and Inverness ?

From Memory the rule of thumb was anything under an hours travel they used there own cars - I certainly drove Ian McCall and Ian Cameron  to Dunfermline once as there was no Team Bus  - budgets are mega tight in the Championship - therefore you run the place efficiently 

Lets face it we got a Team Bus to every game last Season - didnt exactly make a massive difference ?  

  

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33 minutes ago, Third Lanark said:

And if it turns out it was not then I’m not sure what was behind the change other than maybe some on the new board are destined to sell and make money out of it. Who really knows apart from the 2 boards

And if the New Board  are going to sell and get the money they put in back - why do people see that as an issue - when we needed it they put in there cash - there simply getting it back - how many posters honestly would do any different  ?  

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13 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

 

Lets face it we got a Team Bus to every game last Season - didnt exactly make a massive difference ?  

  

Or maybe it did. :shok:

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14 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

And if the New Board  are going to sell and get the money they put in back - why do people see that as an issue - when we needed it they put in there cash - there simply getting it back - how many posters honestly would do any different  ?  

That’s no reason to change board though. If the previous one was losing money then that’s an issue, but if it wasn’t and it’s just to get a new board in so they can get their money back then that’s very much different to a group of guys coming in solely with the best interests of the club 

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57 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

And if the New Board  are going to sell and get the money they put in back - why do people see that as an issue - when we needed it they put in there cash - there simply getting it back - how many posters honestly would do any different  ?  

Got be honest JJ , if I didn’t need the money at this particular moment I wouldn’t just sell for the sake of it unless I was 100% sure the future of our Club was being safeguarded .

Definately got doubts about this deal, possibly because of the lack of information coming out of the Club .

All it needs is a statement to say this is how we see the future of PTFC and the supporters who after all are the lifeblood of the Club can make their own minds up.

Edited by jlsarmy
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56 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

And if the New Board  are going to sell and get the money they put in back - why do people see that as an issue - when we needed it they put in there cash - there simply getting it back - how many posters honestly would do any different  ?  

The question of whether we'd do it differently in the same sutuation is irrelevant, as is the question of whether the shareholders would be justified in their actions.

The fact is that if shareholders are only selling to get return on their investment regardless of it's impact on the club, then that is a concern.

I'm  not saying that is what they are doing (I simply don't know), nor am i saying they'd be wrong to do so. But for fans of the club, regardless of the justifications, it would surely be a worry.

Edited by allyo

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13 hours ago, jlsarmy said:

Got be honest JJ , if I didn’t need the money at this particular moment I wouldn’t just sell for the sake of it unless I was 100% sure the future of our Club was being safeguarded .

Definately got doubts about this deal, possibly because of the lack of information coming out of the Club .

At it needs is a statement to say this is how we see the future of PTFC and the supporters who after all are the lifeblood of the Club can make their own minds up.

Another good point jls. Not being critical of @Jordanhill Jagjust for the sake of being critical, but under the last board he was calling for more open dialogue and a statement from the club. Quite vehemently I seem to remember.

 

As I've posted already I DO believe this board have the best interests of the club at heart and am not being critical of their motives, but some openness would be nice. They have discussed with the jags trust, and they kindly posted details of the meeting. Perhaps a weekly update would be a nice gesture, if they are allowed of course. I hope they understand the concerns of the support. Perhaps JJ can provide than comfort.

Can I also add that were I lucky enough to hold shares in our club I'd not sell either. Not to be obstructive, just cos it's a way of being attached to the club. Perhaps one day....    

 

Well put @allyo, our posts crossed

Edited by Guest

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50 minutes ago, allyo said:

The question of whether we'd do it differently in the same sutuation is irrelevant, as is the question of whether the shareholders would be justified in their actions.

The fact is that if shareholders are only selling to get return on their investment regardless of it's impact on the club, then that is a concern.

I'm  not saying that is what they are doing (I simply don't know), nor am i saying they'd be wrong to do so. But for fans of the club, regardless of the justifications, it would surely be a worry.

Out of likes but very well said 

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If there's any correlation whatsoever between the team bus being scrapped and a transfer purchase embargo being in place surely that would indicate PTFC's funds being frozen? Given that one board was usurped by another board during a period where a third board is attempting to purchase, doesn't that create an environment where  some party may seek some sort of inhibition?

That's just ill informed questioning as opposed to scaremongering or itk commenting. 

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I think we need to stand back here and look at the bigger picture....

1. Our shareholders had previously decided to stand back from the day to day running of the club

2. This wasn’t surprising as they are all in retirement age 

3. It doesn’t seem as any of their children/family  are interested in running the club day to day or being involved 

4.  One major shareholder group the McMaster family have no real interest in the club 

5. So if nothing changes shareholding’s will fall to people with no real interest in the club

6. At this point you can see that change is coming whether it’s wanted or not 

7. Selling their shares therefore seems perfectly logical 

this always reminds me of a quote I used to have on my office wall to remind me how difficult it is to make change happen ....it’s from j k Galbraith 

‘ faced with choice of changing your mind or proving there is no need to do so most people get busy working on the proof....’

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40 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

If there's any correlation whatsoever between the team bus being scrapped and a transfer purchase embargo being in place surely that would indicate PTFC's funds being frozen? Given that one board was usurped by another board during a period where a third board is attempting to purchase, doesn't that create an environment where  some party may seek some sort of inhibition?

That's just ill informed questioning as opposed to scaremongering or itk commenting. 

Really this all fantasy ..... funds being frozen by ? 

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On 8/3/2019 at 6:08 PM, Trotter said:

I’ll be interested to see who turns up as BoD representative. Even more interested if we get straight answers which don’t involve the words “due to ongoing takeover talks”. 

 

Not GC’s biggest fan but this is going to be helluva awkward. I wouldn’t be at all surprised at a last minute change of plan.

 

 

"15:00 – Meet the Manager in the Alan Rough Lounge for a question and answer session."

...and there's your last minute change of plan!

Edited by Grant

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