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Message added by douglas clark

'Tis not the job of a moderator to stop people writing here. The rules are pretty simple:

reported ad hominem attacks will be investigated (and if found to be true) or write stuff that could get the site into trouble

and you'll either be warned / your post deleted, or - worst case scenario -  banned either temporarily or permanently.

This particular thread has had a vigorous exchange of views, and perhaps more heat than light. But the quality of the debate - it seems to me at least - is down to the lack of information.  That, in and of itself, means that whatever side you happen to be on is for a fan, very frustrating.

So, I have no intention of closing threads just because the quality of the postings isn't great. That is not the role of a moderator.

If you wake up the following morning you can always delete something you wish you'd never said.

 

 

 

 

 

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30 minutes ago, Lenziejag said:

Do you mean the club were contributing to the academy through giving some of the transfer fees to it ? 

Eh, not sure the answer to that Lenziejag. As I understand it, any player from the academy making it to the 1st team then getting a transfer like Liam or Jack, some of the fee would go to the academy and some to the club. A shared benefit as both the academy and club had a hand in creating the finished player. 

I understood the academy was run by and funded by three black cats. No funding came from the club. It was an ongoing gift from colin weir. That's my understanding but some one else might have greater knowledge.

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10 minutes ago, javeajag said:

Ok just to defend Colin weir a little ....

he has provided the funding for the academy in total not the club and if I remember it’s about £250k a year ( it’s funny how some people support his funding if the academy but not a training  ground )

i don’t think his withdrawal of support happens immediately so the club has time to take over 

what would you have done if you were Colin weir ? We are selling the club to billionaires ! 

It’s a good question. Without knowing what, if any, discussions have taken place, he could have made some approach to the Chien and Co to find out what is going to happen.

However, if the funding is in place for the Academy this year, what is the point of his statement ?

If the takeover doesn’t happen, presumably nothing changes. If it does, he renegotiates his involvement.

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2 minutes ago, Lenziejag said:

It’s a good question. Without knowing what, if any, discussions have taken place, he could have made some approach to the Chien and Co to find out what is going to happen.

However, if the funding is in place for the Academy this year, what is the point of his statement ?

If the takeover doesn’t happen, presumably nothing changes. If it does, he renegotiates his involvement.

The club approached him as they said they would and he says he is not convinced by what he was told and he could see no substantive plan ....I think his statement is in response to being approached as the club WILL be sold ....why should he bankroll billionaires ? 

You might have thought Beattie would have approached him long before he did 

but Beattie could solve all if this by telling us ? 

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7 minutes ago, Lenziejag said:

It’s a good question. Without knowing what, if any, discussions have taken place, he could have made some approach to the Chien and Co to find out what is going to happen.

However, if the funding is in place for the Academy this year, what is the point of his statement ?

If the takeover doesn’t happen, presumably nothing changes. If it does, he renegotiates his involvement.

Think the trust has gone as regards future funding,that’s not going to happen 

 

 

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Maybe I'm wrong but. There is absolutely nothing to stop someone else bidding for control of the club. Maybe Mr Weir enjoyed pumping money into the club without vested interest but whats to stop him or any other individual or consortium putting in a competing bid. Especially if new city were to walk away...

 

It would have been better if all this could have been done in private much like the hibs deal.

Like most fans concerned until we get our stability back but whether it's new city, weir or some other punter ill still be back supporting the jags. 

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4 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

So we are clear it was a Training Ground owned by a third Party on a long term lease - we didnt own it 

No it was a bit of  land beside a former sewage work. It was never a Training Ground.

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The Herald has a 'Board Response' up:

 

"

PARTICK THISTLE have responded to claims made around the running of the club with a statement, refuting suggestions that manager Gary Caldwell transfer budget has been altered. 

The statement read: "The current board of directors have honoured the playing squad budget signed off by the previous board, a major proportion of which was already committed when the new directors were appointed. However, the budget did run at a significant deficit which could not be recouped from the club’s recurring income. This shortfall has been partly covered by the fees to be received following the sale of Aidan Fitzpatrick and the sell on percentage which the club will receive as a result of Liam Lindsay’s transfer from Barnsley to Stoke. The remainder of the deficit will be funded by adjusting aspects of our logistical operations, not by reducing the funds available for the playing budget.

“The current playing budget available to the manager is likely to be around the third or fourth highest in the league. As a result of these factors we are able to fully support the manager’s aspirations to challenge at the top of the Championship this season. Any suggestions that the ultimate target is anything other than promotion are false.

“The current board strongly refutes any suggestion that £200,000 has been removed from the playing budget, as the figure available to the Manager remains as it was under the previous board.”

More to follow...  "

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The idea that Colin Weir should be criticised by Thistle fans, be accused of being in a huff or whatever, because he has concerns about his own money (which was always geared towards community benefit) being misused in the current situation... it's beyond me.

I don't know what he knows, but if it's what I suspect then I wouldn't put a penny towards Thistle right now, other than my entrance fee to watch a game.

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34 minutes ago, allyo said:

The idea that Colin Weir should be criticised by Thistle fans, be accused of being in a huff or whatever, because he has concerns about his own money (which was always geared towards community benefit) being misused in the current situation... it's beyond me.

I don't know what he knows, but if it's what I suspect then I wouldn't put a penny towards Thistle right now, other than my entrance fee to watch a game.

I agree.  He ought not to be criticised for doing great things for club. 

However, the training ground cannot be proclaimed to be the best run project ever surely (Jacqui low os on board of three black cats and  was on  club board so he had complete control of this though her) and the brilliantly well intentioned supporters trust turned out not to be what was intended from inception with his representative Jacqui low being one of the founding trustees I think. 

He chose not to buy a controlling stake in the club. Even his debt write off share issue plus the shares he owns personally come to little over half the amount the 55 per cent own. 

He has had  Jacqui low in charge for a period of time and she built her own board despite him not having control. 

55 is a bigger number than 30 and so ultimately he has not got his way and well done him for backing his friend rather than the club. We all would want friends like that. 

But he has chosen to depart. At least for the time being. He is free to do so and should have the thanks of all supporters. But if he had insisted the supporters trust was constituted differently so it did what everyone assumed it would , and if the training ground (which let’s not forget was a commercial investment) had been a better run project perhaps I would shed as many tears as some others seem to be doing. 

Managers, players, board members , owners and even benefactors all are transitory.  We are permanent.  

Edited by jaf
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3 minutes ago, allyo said:

The idea that Colin Weir should be criticised by Thistle fans, be accused of being in a huff or whatever, because he has concerns about his own money (which was always geared towards community benefit) being misused in the current situation... it's beyond me.

I don't know what he knows, but if it's what I suspect then I wouldn't put a penny towards Thistle right now, other than my entrance fee to watch a game.

Colin Weir should be praised to the hilt , for making our Club debt free and for the money he put into the Club over the last 4 or 5 years, he wouldn’t have done this if he didn’t have a genuine affection for our Club

My biggest criticism is of David Beattie , knowing that there was going to be a Boardroom coup and the removal of Jaqui Low ( Colin Weirs director on the Board )   Surely there should have been dialogue between Beattie and Colin Weir when they knew this was going to happen.

In the interim period of business negotiations re takeover I would have thought Colin Weir would have been kept up to speed and possibly been involved slightly in negotiations especially with the amount he’s put in over the 4/5 years ( 2.5 million )   , that is just a basic respect and courtesy.

Astonished to read in the media that Beattie hadn’t contacted Colin Weir as of yesterday.

One thing for sure Beattie and Co haven’t come up smelling of roses , a sorry state of affairs.

 

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7 minutes ago, jlsarmy said:

Colin Weir should be praised to the hilt , for making our Club debt free and for the money he put into the Club over the last 4 or 5 years, he wouldn’t have done this if he didn’t have a genuine affection for our Club

My biggest criticism is of David Beattie , knowing that there was going to be a Boardroom coup and the removal of Jaqui Low ( Colin Weirs director on the Board )   Surely there should have been dialogue between Beattie and Colin Weir when they knew this was going to happen.

In the interim period of business negotiations re takeover I would have thought Colin Weir would have been kept up to speed and possibly been involved slightly in negotiations especially with the amount he’s put in over the 4/5 years ( 2.5 million )   , that is just a basic respect and courtesy.

Astonished to read in the media that Beattie hadn’t contacted Colin Weir as of yesterday.

One thing for sure Beattie and Co haven’t come up smelling of roses , a sorry state of affairs.

 

Can’t argue with that. 

I am very surprised Beattie did not try to contact Colin weir. 

I know he is quite difficult to contact by all accounts but it was of such importance Beattie could have doorstepped him!

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, That 1 jags fan said:

Where is this assumption we are going to be a feeder club come from?

I think as a result of the “How does a team in the Scottish 2nd tier, with average attendances in the lower four digits, make sense for a consortium that owns Barnsley and Nice?”

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16 hours ago, allyo said:

 

And human nature is that "diligence" can fall away if there is a strong incentive to make something happen. I just bought a pair of jeans that were probably too tight for a man of my age, because they were 50% reduced.

Haha, I did exactly the same at the weekend! To be fair on the shop though, they fully refunded me when I pointed out the "problem"!

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4 hours ago, That 1 jags fan said:

Where is this assumption we are going to be a feeder club come from?

I think the sfa dual ownership rules specifically give this as an example of something which would not be looked on favourably. 

I Think it is people who are not billionaires not being able to get their heads round why someone would buy us  I suppose if everyone understood everything we would all be billionaires  

 

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, javeajag said:

The club approached him as they said they would and he says he is not convinced by what he was told and he could see no substantive plan ....I think his statement is in response to being approached as the club WILL be sold ....why should he bankroll billionaires ? 

You might have thought Beattie would have approached him long before he did 

but Beattie could solve all if this by telling us ? 

A couple of things are puzzling me. Why no direct conversation between Colin Weir and Chien ? and

If the funding for the Academy is already committed for this season, how is he bankrolling billionaires ?

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8 hours ago, jlsarmy said:

Think the trust has gone as regards future funding,that’s not going to happen 

 

 

What future funding are we talking about here ?

The £6M for the training ground is being managed by 3 Black Cats - not PTFC. 

The academy costs £250K a year.

Is there something else ?

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6 hours ago, allyo said:

The idea that Colin Weir should be criticised by Thistle fans, be accused of being in a huff or whatever, because he has concerns about his own money (which was always geared towards community benefit) being misused in the current situation... it's beyond me.

I don't know what he knows, but if it's what I suspect then I wouldn't put a penny towards Thistle right now, other than my entrance fee to watch a game.

Jings - didn’t realise he is god! Of course he can do what he wants. If, as has been suggested, the academy money is committed this season and the training ground money isn’t under PTFC’s control. What is the point of the statement ?

I think he has not been advised properly at the outset of his involvement. Otherwise, his contracts would have covered this scenario.

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5 hours ago, jlsarmy said:

Colin Weir should be praised to the hilt , for making our Club debt free and for the money he put into the Club over the last 4 or 5 years, he wouldn’t have done this if he didn’t have a genuine affection for our Club

My biggest criticism is of David Beattie , knowing that there was going to be a Boardroom coup and the removal of Jaqui Low ( Colin Weirs director on the Board )   Surely there should have been dialogue between Beattie and Colin Weir when they knew this was going to happen.

In the interim period of business negotiations re takeover I would have thought Colin Weir would have been kept up to speed and possibly been involved slightly in negotiations especially with the amount he’s put in over the 4/5 years ( 2.5 million )   , that is just a basic respect and courtesy.

Astonished to read in the media that Beattie hadn’t contacted Colin Weir as of yesterday.

One thing for sure Beattie and Co haven’t come up smelling of roses , a sorry state of affairs.

 

Nobody is criticising him for what he has done, and yes the current board should have contacted him and kept him in the loop. But if it was my money, I would be pro active about finding out what is going on rather than sitting waiting 

You are also building a picture here that he doesn’t trust David Beattie. Was it not under David Beattie that he 1st invested ?

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30 minutes ago, Lenziejag said:

A couple of things are puzzling me. Why no direct conversation between Colin Weir and Chien ? and

If the funding for the Academy is already committed for this season, how is he bankrolling billionaires ?

Please stop .....

first point ask your mate David Beattie but you won’t get a reply

second  point Colin weir as you know agreed a funding package for the academy for the next two/three years

third point as the club will shortly be owned by billionaires they can fund the academy 

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33 minutes ago, jaf said:

I think the sfa dual ownership rules specifically give this as an example of something which would not be looked on favourably. 

I Think it is people who are not billionaires not being able to get their heads round why someone would buy us  I suppose if everyone understood everything we would all be billionaires  

 

 

 

 

Nothing to stop us getting loan players from Barnsley though 

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