New Owner

[Ancipital]

I'm pretty phlegmatic about the whole thing, it's not as if the fans will vote for this or there's a 99% majority wanting it stopped, enough shareholders have already decided to sell and it'll either go through if the SFA allow it, or it won't and they'll have to try another method to sell up. 

However the budget figures don't make sense to me as a layman.

We've had ex-director Michael Robertson on one of the fans Facebook pages saying the accounts to 31/5/2019 "should" show a profit and this  article saying there were funds available and £350k also available in January should we need it and threatening legal action against anyone saying the club was failing.

We now have the new board saying that even with the F&L money (say £700k) received after 31/5/2019 we were still going to run at a loss for this season, despite the old board closing the  Coli main stand for 90% of games, making office folk redundant , presumably getting a few shekels from UEFA for the girls Euros hosting etc. We've got a squad of 19 senior players and a handful of young lads, unless we're paying Kenny Miller £10k a week (we're not) or paying for Joe Cardle's sunbeds (probable weekly cost around the same) , or Firhill is costing far more to maintain than previously let on, that just seems mad as javeajag pointed out above.

I get there can be creative accounting I can't see how these two positions square up.

[javeajag]

Just now, Jordanhill Jag said:

OK a "Why not" could be that contact with Colin Weir as a Euro Lottery Winner would not be easy - he would normally have a layer of Lawyers - Accountants and PR Companies to vet correspondance - - therefore direct contact may not be straightforward - he over the last 18 Months given his personal circumstances- may have changed phone number and house address - given he is a very Private individual - again not easy to contact - his Contact would obviously have been via the previous Board - would they be happy for David Beattie to be discussing a Takeover in advance  - well we dont know - therefore as Ive said - your making massive assumptions as to what occurred - bottom line is you dont know.  

Eh this is your best yet.....Because he has his contact details ...the rest is your inventing to feel better

Are you selling your shares ?

[Jordanhill Jag]

Just now, javeajag said:

Eh this is your best yet.....Because he has his contact details ...the rest is your inventing to feel better

Are you selling your shares ?

How do you know he has his contact detials - again assumptions 

No Im not selling my shares - I have a small shareholding - I was offered a larger one by Tom Hughes - I declined and any financial input was a donation - so you can save that angle 

Your arguement is made on zero knowledge - zero 

[javeajag]

1 minute ago, Norgethistle said:

If your unaware of how to purchase shares in a Limited Company, then i will try to explain basically to you.

You either purchase shares from existing shareholders at a price they are willing to sell, or you approach the Limited Company’s (Club) board asking to invest X amount in return for new shares being issued which would then be agreed by an EGM of those with significant control.

I never brought up Colin Weir, but he gifted the shares he got for his investment to the Trust otherwise he could have sold them too, he still can with the 3% or whatever he has in his name

Even your explanation explains why it doesn’t happen .....

1. There is now price for the shares

2. There is no market for the shares 

3. No one knows what each share is worth 

4. In the current situation existing shareholders will not sell so you can’t buy 

5. An egm ?! What a laugh ....can wait to see the one to approve the takeover 

6. Colin weir decent human being 

[jlsarmy]

1 minute ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

How are we £500K down - The Youth Academy maybe - so we revert back to what we had before - the Club isnt £500K down 

Agreed , so we scrap the Youth Academy?

What did we have before? , we had Bobby Dinnie who scouted Dools and Erskine that was 10 yrs ago , then it got a bit better under Jackie Macs contacts in football SODs , ATS etc

God help us if that’s what we’re going back to 

[javeajag]

1 minute ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

How do you know he has his contact detials - again assumptions 

No Im not selling my shares - I have a small shareholding - I was offered a larger one by Tom Hughes - I declined and any financial input was a donation - so you can save that angle 

Your arguement is made on zero knowledge - zero 

Because he has spoken to him ...he said so 

[Jordanhill Jag]

Just now, javeajag said:

Because he has spoken to him ...he said so 

Where did he say that ?  

[javeajag]

2 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Where did he say that ?  

Colin weir in his statement said he had spoken to representatives of the shareholder selling group ....so someone had his number .....the fact that you think the club would not have a way to contact him us frankly embarrassing 

[Norgethistle]

5 minutes ago, javeajag said:

Look I think you are being deliberately misleading .....

It was clearly stated at the agm that our income would be substantially lower in the championship - no surprise there - so we would not be budgeting for anything else 

so you still haven’t explained on how on a £2m income you could be £700k over budget ....we would need to sign some players to do that and look at our squad ....how much do you think it’s costing this season ? Really ....

24 players at £50k each is £1.2m .....I mean really tell us .....

Those figures were an example as to how to overspend a budget.

The 4 players Caldwell was looking at according to the leak was budgeted at £200k , so we let’s say that’s the average so yes could be £1.2 million if 24 players, who knows what some are on, Miller will not be cheap.

Add to that coaching staff wages, office staff wages, insurance, maintenance, food, electricity, etc and that figure adds up quickly.

2500  (Adult) paying fans a week over 22 home games will only bring in £1.2 million less VAT, hospitality £70k less VAT, and sponsorship on top of that. I can’t see us getting £700k a year on sponsorship. So I’d say our “normal revenue” would be sub £2million.

 

[jlsarmy]

9 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

If your unaware of how to purchase shares in a Limited Company, then i will try to explain basically to you.

You either purchase shares from existing shareholders at a price they are willing to sell, or you approach the Limited Company’s (Club) board asking to invest X amount in return for new shares being issued which would then be agreed by an EGM of those with significant control.

I never brought up Colin Weir, but he gifted the shares he got for his investment to the Trust otherwise he could have sold them too, he still can with the 3% or whatever he has in his name

You can’t purchase the Trusts shares , so in effect does that put the other shareholders in a stronger position?

[Norgethistle]

1 minute ago, jlsarmy said:

You can’t purchase the Trusts shares , so in effect does that put the other shareholders in a stronger position?

If both Trust’s work together and don’t sell then the 75% threshold cannot be made 

[Emsca]

5 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

OK a "Why not" could be that contact with Colin Weir as a Euro Lottery Winner would not be easy - he would normally have a layer of Lawyers - Accountants and PR Companies to vet correspondance - - therefore direct contact may not be straightforward - he over the last 18 Months given his personal circumstances- may have changed phone number and house address - given he is a very Private individual - again not easy to contact - his Contact would obviously have been via the previous Board - would they be happy for David Beattie to be discussing a Takeover in advance  - well we dont know - therefore as Ive said - your making massive assumptions as to what occurred - bottom line is you dont know.  

I am concerned that JJ seems to have  a significantly different view on this matter than  most other fans on this Forum.  The most worrying is his view that Colin Weir has not been good for PTFC.

 I understand that JJ was previously a Board member . I admit that this next statement is an assumption and  requires a bit of a leap of faith , but I do not think it is too unrealistic to assume the members of the "New Board"  will have similar views to JJ.  ie  that it was  better in the past when we  did not have an Academy; relied on a scouting system  and trained in Maryhill Park, That worries me.

[javeajag]

3 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

Those figures were an example as to how to overspend a budget.

The 4 players Caldwell was looking at according to the leak was budgeted at £200k , so we let’s say that’s the average so yes could be £1.2 million if 24 players, who knows what some are on, Miller will not be cheap.

Add to that coaching staff wages, office staff wages, insurance, maintenance, food, electricity, etc and that figure adds up quickly.

2500  (Adult) paying fans a week over 22 home games will only bring in £1.2 million less VAT, hospitality £70k less VAT, and sponsorship on top of that. I can’t see us getting £700k a year on sponsorship. So I’d say our “normal revenue” would be sub £2million.

 

You have no idea if we are over spending 

even if the playing squad cost £1.5m  add 50% you get £2.1m .....add £700k  it’s £2.8m 

i mean get a grip it just doesn’t add up .....really 

 

[javeajag]

5 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

If both Trust’s work together and don’t sell then the 75% threshold cannot be made 

Now that is funny 

[jlsarmy]

7 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

Those figures were an example as to how to overspend a budget.

The 4 players Caldwell was looking at according to the leak was budgeted at £200k , so we let’s say that’s the average so yes could be £1.2 million if 24 players, who knows what some are on, Miller will not be cheap.

Add to that coaching staff wages, office staff wages, insurance, maintenance, food, electricity, etc and that figure adds up quickly.

2500  (Adult) paying fans a week over 22 home games will only bring in £1.2 million less VAT, hospitality £70k less VAT, and sponsorship on top of that. I can’t see us getting £700k a year on sponsorship. So I’d say our “normal revenue” would be sub £2million.

 

No chance we’re paying our players even close to 1k a week ,only one might be Kenny Miller supplemented by his coaching duties 

[Norgethistle]

3 minutes ago, jlsarmy said:

No chance we’re paying our players even close to 1k a week ,only one might be Kenny Miller supplemented by his coaching duties 

Not according to the Herald article that caused the commotion- Budget of £200k for 4 players shelved

[Big Col]

Closing in on 100 pages of speculation and conjecture.

Carry on.

[Norgethistle]

5 minutes ago, javeajag said:

Now that is funny 

Doesn’t stop new owners coming in and running the club their way though, only need 51% for that

 

[javeajag]

Just now, Norgethistle said:

Not according to the Herald article that caused the commotion- Budget of £200k for 4 players shelved

So you agree with everything in the herald article ?

 

[Norgethistle]

7 minutes ago, javeajag said:

You have no idea if we are over spending 

even if the playing squad cost £1.5m  add 50% you get £2.1m .....add £700k  it’s £2.8m 

i mean get a grip it just doesn’t add up .....really 

 

You quoted the 60% budget, so what do you believe our budgeted income would be?

[javeajag]

Just now, Norgethistle said:

Doesn’t stop new owners coming in and running the club their way though, only need 51% for that

 

Yep and the two trusts are poodles 

[Norgethistle]

Just now, javeajag said:

So you agree with everything in the herald article ?

 

Not one bit of it, but I know who at Firhill gave the story as the Herald office couldn’t keep a secret if it’s life depended upon it

[Norgethistle]

1 minute ago, javeajag said:

Yep and the two trusts are poodles 

Only in your opinion 

[javeajag]

Just now, Norgethistle said:

You quoted the 60% budget, so what do you believe our budgeted income would be?

Based on what David Kelly - Beatties guy said at the agm - we were budgeting for a significant drop in income .....no surprise .....from £4.6m to around £2m to £2.5m .....so we wouldn’t be budgeting for more than than and had indicated we were holding some back for January ....so overspend doesn’t add up not  adding in the Lindsay or Fitzpatrick fees

ill ask you for the third time how much do think our squad costs ! 

[javeajag]

4 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

Only in your opinion 

And many others and explain how they are representing their members ?