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Message added by douglas clark

'Tis not the job of a moderator to stop people writing here. The rules are pretty simple:

reported ad hominem attacks will be investigated (and if found to be true) or write stuff that could get the site into trouble

and you'll either be warned / your post deleted, or - worst case scenario -  banned either temporarily or permanently.

This particular thread has had a vigorous exchange of views, and perhaps more heat than light. But the quality of the debate - it seems to me at least - is down to the lack of information.  That, in and of itself, means that whatever side you happen to be on is for a fan, very frustrating.

So, I have no intention of closing threads just because the quality of the postings isn't great. That is not the role of a moderator.

If you wake up the following morning you can always delete something you wish you'd never said.

 

 

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, javeajag said:

Based on what David Kelly - Beatties guy said at the agm - we were budgeting for a significant drop in income .....no surprise .....from £4.6m to around £2m to £2.5m .....so we wouldn’t be budgeting for more than than and had indicated we were holding some back for January ....so overspend doesn’t add up not  adding in the Lindsay or Fitzpatrick fees

ill ask you for the third time how much do think our squad costs ! 

At a guess just short of a million.

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3 minutes ago, javeajag said:

Cool .....how could anyone spend another 700k on that ....it’s a joke ....and concerning that the board is pedaling this nonsense 

A couple of trips to Spain for 25 people here, a massively inflated contract for the manager there, a director’s remuneration package in between... sooner or later it adds up to real money.

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1 hour ago, Thistleberight said:

Ran out of likes. Spot on. But that doesn't absolve this board of their duty of care and self righteous pursuit of profit to the detriment of Thistle. If that's not the case why are they silent on the take over.

TB he has blatantly made up stuff again to suit his sad little agenda - the attendances were down from January onwards- it is a fact that they went up.  Just as it was also a fact that significant costs were spent having to pay off the previous manager, his assistant and a number of dud players he had wasted a whole load of cash on. While additionally we wasted high wages in not being able to ditch very high earners like keown and Storey though that may have been maxwells fault rather than Archie’s with regards to contracts and wages for these guys. 

in other words we wasted a significant amount of money in not ditching Archie last summer.  

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Just now, Woodstock Jag said:

A couple of trips to Spain for 25 people here, a massively inflated contract for the manager there, a director’s remuneration package in between... sooner or later it adds up to real money.

Even that doesn’t add up .....and for factual clarification no director takes any remuneration 

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4 minutes ago, Third Lanark said:

TB he has blatantly made up stuff again to suit his sad little agenda - the attendances were down from January onwards- it is a fact that they went up.  Just as it was also a fact that significant costs were spent having to pay off the previous manager, his assistant and a number of dud players he had wasted a whole load of cash on. While additionally we wasted high wages in not being able to ditch very high earners like keown and Storey though that may have been maxwells fault rather than Archie’s with regards to contracts and wages for these guys. 

in other words we wasted a significant amount of money in not ditching Archie last summer.  

Oh yes .....Beattie ? 

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I have to say this is whataboutery that would give the OF zealots a run for their money. What I would say is that if this takeover is nearing a conclusion Beattie should give some brief detail of what the new owners are planning. I dont expect war and peace ( ironic ) but it would perhaps stop people lighting fires. Considering what has happened recently it could be argued a new board is just what we require. 

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44 minutes ago, Emsca said:

I am concerned that JJ seems to have  a significantly different view on this matter than  most other fans on this Forum.  The most worrying is his view that Colin Weir has not been good for PTFC.

 I understand that JJ was previously a Board member . I admit that this next statement is an assumption and  requires a bit of a leap of faith , but I do not think it is too unrealistic to assume the members of the "New Board"  will have similar views to JJ.  ie  that it was  better in the past when we  did not have an Academy; relied on a scouting system  and trained in Maryhill Park, That worries me.

First No one mentioned Maryhill Park - Garscube Estate has excellent Facilities - reality we are a Tennent there - and we would be a Tennant at any 3 Black Cats Training Ground on BOTH we have to pay a Commercial Rent - circa 10% of the Development cost - simple fact or HMRC would be all over it - so not getting the "training Ground " frankly is no big deal in my opinion  

My leaning is towards a Scouting System - rather than an Academy - that view is not unique in Football

I think Colin Weir did what he thought was best  - the question is - as a result where we a better Club - thats a subjective view and down to opinion  - we were progressing before he was involved - we were a Premier Club - I have No idea as to individual Views on the Board  - I have my View      

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58 minutes ago, Ancipital said:

I'm pretty phlegmatic about the whole thing, it's not as if the fans will vote for this or there's a 99% majority wanting it stopped, enough shareholders have already decided to sell and it'll either go through if the SFA allow it, or it won't and they'll have to try another method to sell up. 

However the budget figures don't make sense to me as a layman.

We've had ex-director Michael Robertson on one of the fans Facebook pages saying the accounts to 31/5/2019 "should" show a profit and this  article saying there were funds available and £350k also available in January should we need it and threatening legal action against anyone saying the club was failing.

We now have the new board saying that even with the F&L money (say £700k) received after 31/5/2019 we were still going to run at a loss for this season, despite the old board closing the  Coli main stand for 90% of games, making office folk redundant , presumably getting a few shekels from UEFA for the girls Euros hosting etc. We've got a squad of 19 senior players and a handful of young lads, unless we're paying Kenny Miller £10k a week (we're not) or paying for Joe Cardle's sunbeds (probable weekly cost around the same) , or Firhill is costing far more to maintain than previously let on, that just seems mad as javeajag pointed out above.

I get there can be creative accounting I can't see how these two positions square up.

Got to agree with you , even last year in the SPFL Championship, we had almost 1.2 million prize from the previous year in the Premier League, we also had 500k parachute payments , we had a Cup run also on top of that , so even with a huge drop in turnover we still should have been ok ?

This year we’ve got another parachute payment of 250k , we’ve got  600k from Liam and Aidan’s transfers , it’s obviously tighter this year but the figures should be do able.

Next year will be certainly be a struggle whoever is in charge.

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For some reason I can't seem to get certain suspicions out of my mind.

It seems to me that there is a concerted move on here to keep the majority of fans in the dark about what is happening at the club. Some posters, who for months were demanding that the board come out and tell the" real" truths behind every statement issued are now castigating us for not believing the same style of guarded statements which say very little. There is a move to try to shift blame on to Colin Weir when it is beginning to look like he has been deliberately sidelined from having any involvement in the club. David Beattie has stated and this has been expanded on by his supporters, that he tried to contact Colin Weir. Maybe it was not the best tactic to force his representative out the door with such undue haste. Much was made of the fact thast the previous board were not shareholders so why were they ousted in the manner they were and not like most boards who are there to serve the shareholders,  told how the shareholders wanted the club run? If the people who are wanting to take over the club are such a great deal for PTFC then why can't someone come out and say this? It's not as if there are a queue of potential buyers who may end in a bidding war which could drive up the cost for the purchasers. And if the takeover is all legal and above board, then why not make it open and transparent too?

I doubt that I'll get answers to any of these but I can't help feeling that I'm being taken for a mug by some on here who see themselves as "business types" who know better than a peasant like me.

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43 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

How do you know he has his contact detials - again assumptions 

No Im not selling my shares - I have a small shareholding - I was offered a larger one by Tom Hughes - I declined and any financial input was a donation - so you can save that angle 

Your arguement is made on zero knowledge - zero 

Fair play to you Jim for doing that

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6 minutes ago, jlsarmy said:

Got to agree with you , even last year in the SPFL Championship, we had almost 1.2 million prize from the previous year in the Premier League, we also had 500k parachute payments , we had a Cup run also on top of that , so even with a huge drop in turnover we still should have been ok ?

This year we’ve got another parachute payment of 250k , we’ve got  600k from Liam and Aidan’s transfers , it’s obviously tighter this year but the figures should be do able.

Next year will be certainly be a struggle whoever is in charge.

And you will never know as the old board shuffle off and the figures are never published 

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34 minutes ago, scotty said:

For some reason I can't seem to get certain suspicions out of my mind.

It seems to me that there is a concerted move on here to keep the majority of fans in the dark about what is happening at the club. Some posters, who for months were demanding that the board come out and tell the" real" truths behind every statement issued are now castigating us for not believing the same style of guarded statements which say very little. There is a move to try to shift blame on to Colin Weir when it is beginning to look like he has been deliberately sidelined from having any involvement in the club. David Beattie has stated and this has been expanded on by his supporters, that he tried to contact Colin Weir. Maybe it was not the best tactic to force his representative out the door with such undue haste. Much was made of the fact thast the previous board were not shareholders so why were they ousted in the manner they were and not like most boards who are there to serve the shareholders,  told how the shareholders wanted the club run? If the people who are wanting to take over the club are such a great deal for PTFC then why can't someone come out and say this? It's not as if there are a queue of potential buyers who may end in a bidding war which could drive up the cost for the purchasers. And if the takeover is all legal and above board, then why not make it open and transparent too?

I doubt that I'll get answers to any of these but I can't help feeling that I'm being taken for a mug by some on here who see themselves as "business types" who know better than a peasant like me.

I feel exactly the same. 

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1 hour ago, jlsarmy said:

Got to agree with you , even last year in the SPFL Championship, we had almost 1.2 million prize from the previous year in the Premier League, we also had 500k parachute payments , we had a Cup run also on top of that , so even with a huge drop in turnover we still should have been ok ?

This year we’ve got another parachute payment of 250k , we’ve got  600k from Liam and Aidan’s transfers , it’s obviously tighter this year but the figures should be do able.

Next year will be certainly be a struggle whoever is in charge.

Transfer money payments are normally staggered roughly in line with the length of Contract  the Player signed - so they wont be lump sums in the budget more likely a third of it 

Parachute payment was circa £600k PLUS £300K EUFA Money - so nearer £900K  - based on previous  Championship incomes of £1.5MN the £2.5MN put forward by David Kelly at the last AGM is in line with these incomes - however we dont know he level of outgoings or if we pulled in £1.5MN   -f we spent £2.%MN in the Championship thats a big big Spend 

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4 hours ago, The Legend Blows said:

Was listening to TalkSport drive on way home tonight and interesting wee comment from Barnsley supporter Darren Gough. He must've said previously that Barnsley need investment. He was questioned as to why, as they are owned by Billionaires. His response was that they spend nothing and are only interested in making money. Adrian Durham was also taking the piss that Oakwell was falling apart and in poor condition. Roll on the takeover. Always wanted to be a plaything & nursery feeder club for a bunch of disinterested foreign owners.

 

This is what I don't understand. It's easier to believe there's profit to be made out of Barnsley than out of Partick Thistle. Outside of the Old Firm there's nothing but buttons in Scottish football. Why take us over to be a nursery club when the standard of championship football is awful - I'm positive there's teams in lower European leagues that could probably be purchased for the same price that would allow loaned players to experience a higher standard of football than the doldrums of Scotland (current FIFA ranking: 48). How much would KV Oostende in Belgium cost to buy?

Meanwhile Firhill's falling apart and in poor condition.

Perhaps they've gone all around the shops and we're the only club daft enough to want to sell to them, but it still makes no sense.

Billionaires don't become billionaires by making poor business decisions, so there must be an angle, surely ...

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4 hours ago, The Legend Blows said:

Was listening to TalkSport drive on way home tonight and interesting wee comment from Barnsley supporter Darren Gough. He must've said previously that Barnsley need investment. He was questioned as to why, as they are owned by Billionaires. His response was that they spend nothing and are only interested in making money. Adrian Durham was also taking the piss that Oakwell was falling apart and in poor condition. Roll on the takeover. Always wanted to be a plaything & nursery feeder club for a bunch of disinterested foreign owners.

That’s interesting, took a wee look at the Barnsley forum and they all seem to quite like him. He dose seem to be against spending money on players though.

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4 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Transfer money payments are normally staggered roughly in line with the length of Contract  the Player signed - so they wont be lump sums in the budget more likely a third of it 

Parachute payment was circa £600k PLUS £300K EUFA Money - so nearer £900K  - based on previous  Championship incomes of £1.5MN the £2.5MN put forward by David Kelly at the last AGM is in line with these incomes - however we dont know he level of outgoings or if we pulled in £1.5MN   -f we spent £2.%MN in the Championship thats a big big Spend 

Never happened

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9 hours ago, jlsarmy said:

How does that make sense , surely it should be the other way round , the new prospective owner should be contacting the benefactors to keep them onside .

If it was my money, I would want to know what was going on. I wouldn’t be sitting back and waiting for someone to come and talk to me.

Of course the new owners should have been getting in touch as well.

Both sides are at fault.

 

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9 hours ago, javeajag said:

Let’s call it quits you want to be owned by a private equity outfit 

Nor do you read any posts. At no point have I said what outcome I would like. I just am not having it all being blamed on one side or the other. 

Whereas you have an agenda against Beattie.

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9 hours ago, jlsarmy said:

Interesting to read when the new owners of Nice took over from Chien Lee and Paul Conway , all 145 employees had to back the deal for it to go through, if only we had that transparency for this deal so we could appraise it properly, one thing when you read the web streams of Barnsley and Nice is  they don’t like spending money .

Happy days ahead .

 

Who put that condition in ? The new owners or Lee and Conway ?

 

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9 hours ago, jlsarmy said:

He became Chairman again not to protect his investment but to make sure he sold his investment regardless of what the future holds for our Club .

We’re already 500k a year down ( Colin Weir) because of the ham fisted way this Boardroom coup has happened.

Indefensible , regardless what he did in the past 

Ah so we are now at £500K a year funding from Weir(presumably for the academy?). Up until about 10 mins ago it was £250K.

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12 minutes ago, Lenziejag said:

Ah so we are now at £500K a year funding from Weir(presumably for the academy?). Up until about 10 mins ago it was £250K.

I never said that , Colin Weir’s statement said he had invested 2.5 million in the last 5 yrs 

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4 minutes ago, jlsarmy said:

I never said that , Colin Weir’s statement said he had invested 2.5 million in the last 5 yrs 

But a large chunk of that was to pay off the debt. I think somebody said it was 1.5 Million. If that is correct and using your arithmetic, it costs Colin Weir £200K a year for the academy.

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