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Dundee United Friday 9th August


Bobbyhouston
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I have not been buzzing for this season...my enthusiasm was drained by Caldwell's awful management last season.  So I was a bit surprised that we were ok in the first half - the just-skelp-it-up-the-park plan was quite effective with Cardle & Jones fairly lively. We were the great predictables in the second half - United stepped up the pace and we were second best...you just knew the outcome.

Penrice had a sound game defensively and despite my reservations about an Old Firm loan signing, Palmer looked a decent player -  a strange substitution. Banzo is a class act but he looked increasingly frustrated  playing in such a disjointed side...you could almost see a word bubble of him saying "give me some help guys". I am struggling to recall a single passage of linked play from us in the entire game.

It already looks like another nothing season. Williamson, Robson, Mansell, Gordon & De Vita are very ordinary players...at best, we might manage a play-off spot(at the top of a low quality League) but we are nowhere near a genuine promotion side. I just don't want to watch Kenny Miller play for Thistle 

I would say we are a Club going backwards...so the takeover may be a chance to change things...or maybe a mercy killing.

 

 

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That was torrid to watch. 1st half we were ok against a poor playing UTD team, second half they stepped up, we were knackered and they should have beat us by more.

There is no stand out great or good players in that team (Cardle can be on occasions but Caldwell’s formation and tactics don’t suit flair), that squad will struggle to stay up. And 2 league games in the team looked exhausted after an hour, so much for sports science and high intensity training.  Very few of that team look comfortable in that formation with those tactics or in their own roles, the manager seems to be shoehorning guys into his idea rather than setting up to suit the abilities and strengths of the squad (whatever they may be!!!)

 

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32 minutes ago, Winter of '63 said:

I have not been buzzing for this season...my enthusiasm was drained by Caldwell's awful management last season.  So I was a bit surprised that we were ok in the first half - the just-skelp-it-up-the-park plan was quite effective with Cardle & Jones fairly lively. We were the great predictables in the second half - United stepped up the pace and we were second best...you just knew the outcome.

Penrice had a sound game defensively and despite my reservations about an Old Firm loan signing, Palmer looked a decent player -  a strange substitution. Banzo is a class act but he looked increasingly frustrated  playing in such a disjointed side...you could almost see a word bubble of him saying "give me some help guys". I am struggling to recall a single passage of linked play from us in the entire game.

It already looks like another nothing season. Williamson, Robson, Mansell, Gordon & De Vita are very ordinary players...at best, we might manage a play-off spot(at the top of a low quality League) but we are nowhere near a genuine promotion side. I just don't want to watch Kenny Miller play for Thistle 

I would say we are a Club going backwards...so the takeover may be a chance to change things...or maybe a mercy killing.

 

 

1 point out of 6 says relegation play-offs.

Some donkeys in that team. 

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39 minutes ago, Winter of '63 said:

I have not been buzzing for this season...my enthusiasm was drained by Caldwell's awful management last season.  So I was a bit surprised that we were ok in the first half - the just-skelp-it-up-the-park plan was quite effective with Cardle & Jones fairly lively. We were the great predictables in the second half - United stepped up the pace and we were second best...you just knew the outcome.

Penrice had a sound game defensively and despite my reservations about an Old Firm loan signing, Palmer looked a decent player -  a strange substitution. Banzo is a class act but he looked increasingly frustrated  playing in such a disjointed side...you could almost see a word bubble of him saying "give me some help guys". I am struggling to recall a single passage of linked play from us in the entire game.

It already looks like another nothing season. Williamson, Robson, Mansell, Gordon & De Vita are very ordinary players...at best, we might manage a play-off spot(at the top of a low quality League) but we are nowhere near a genuine promotion side. I just don't want to watch Kenny Miller play for Thistle 

I would say we are a Club going backwards...so the takeover may be a chance to change things...or maybe a mercy killing.

 

 

Completely agree.  average at best signings over the summer on the evidence thus far.  We have next to no attacking threat

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I’m in the camp that’s says you pick a formation and get players to make that work.....at our level to me that means 4 4 2.....not that you can’t tweak it a bit if required.....but we go from 3  at the back pretty much till now and then change it 

we just don’t look like we can dominate teams and that points to the midfield .....Banzo looks well done or uninterested ....but it’s not working 

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15 minutes ago, javeajag said:

I’m in the camp that’s says you pick a formation and get players to make that work.....at our level to me that means 4 4 2.....not that you can’t tweak it a bit if required.....but we go from 3  at the back pretty much till now and then change it 

we just don’t look like we can dominate teams and that points to the midfield .....Banzo looks well done or uninterested ....but it’s not working 

I’d be tempted to go 4-5-1 or 5-4-1 with the weakness in our midfield 

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1 hour ago, allyo said:

I don't mean to be disrespectful to Joe Cardle, but to my knowledge he's been pretty much a journeyman at this kind of level. The fact that there is a consensus that he is consistently our best player is a bit worrying.

Pretty much sums it up. We're at that journeymen phase of the cycle, living off scraps and the occasional 2 minute spell of decent football. Something like the 2006/07 season, i.e. another fallow mid-table year.

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12 minutes ago, dl1971 said:

It's not the formation. It's the quality of players we have. Caldwell has been flayed for playing 3 5 2. We played 442 and were bossed by DU all over the park. 

We're probably saying the same thing. The 3-5-2 (3-5-1-1) suits the players due to defensive failings. Three centrebacks to do the job of two of better quality. Using wingbacks as we only have one orthodox fullback and even he (Penrice) is possibly more suited going forward. Utterly negative when none of the centrebacks cross the halfway line in open play.

Playing 4-4-2 with a shaky right back, no real ball winner in centre mid, Cardle on his less favoured wing and Robson not really a winger was always going to be flawed. Running out of steam long before the end was always on the cards. Our only hope of getting a goal in the second half would have been Cardle playing in Williamson to get a cross in. Even then they didn't get too much opportunity. Couldn't see a second goal coming from anywhere else.

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For me Williamson looks like the weak link defensively in that formation and selection tonight. Looks decent enough going forward but was to exposed defensively even though I'd say United had better players on the right side of their attack. Looks a bit leaden footed at times aswell. He looked knackered from about 75 minutes also. When he did get forward it also left us stretched as Saunders was drawn over to cover the space and McGinty had to much ground to cover. Incidentally, McGinty looks to have improved from last season although the temptation to launch a ball long is irresistible to him at times.

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8 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

We're probably saying the same thing. The 3-5-2 (3-5-1-1) suits the players due to defensive failings. Three centrebacks to do the job of two of better quality. Using wingbacks as we only have one orthodox fullback and even he (Penrice) is possibly more suited going forward. Utterly negative when none of the centrebacks cross the halfway line in open play.

Playing 4-4-2 with a shaky right back, no real ball winner in centre mid, Cardle on his less favoured wing and Robson not really a winger was always going to be flawed. Running out of steam long before the end was always on the cards. Our only hope of getting a goal in the second half would have been Cardle playing in Williamson to get a cross in. Even then they didn't get too much opportunity. Couldn't see a second goal coming from anywhere else.

Thought ncginty nearly got a goal in second half bar brilliant save from Dundee United keeper

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7 hours ago, Winter of '63 said:

I have not been buzzing for this season...my enthusiasm was drained by Caldwell's awful management last season.  So I was a bit surprised that we were ok in the first half - the just-skelp-it-up-the-park plan was quite effective with Cardle & Jones fairly lively. We were the great predictables in the second half - United stepped up the pace and we were second best...you just knew the outcome.

Penrice had a sound game defensively and despite my reservations about an Old Firm loan signing, Palmer looked a decent player -  a strange substitution. Banzo is a class act but he looked increasingly frustrated  playing in such a disjointed side...you could almost see a word bubble of him saying "give me some help guys". I am struggling to recall a single passage of linked play from us in the entire game.

It already looks like another nothing season. Williamson, Robson, Mansell, Gordon & De Vita are very ordinary players...at best, we might manage a play-off spot(at the top of a low quality League) but we are nowhere near a genuine promotion side. I just don't want to watch Kenny Miller play for Thistle 

I would say we are a Club going backwards...so the takeover may be a chance to change things...or maybe a mercy killing.

 

 

This in spades. We looked like a collection of odd sock players, not a team. Not enough quality, not a clear formation or response to DU upping their game. 

Although GC may have been prevented buying another 3-4 players, the quality of the signings he has brought in look mediocre. And if he can’t motivate Banzo or play O’Ware (could be captain) then there is something amiss.

We might improve as the season moves forward, but in the basis of last night we can forget promotion.

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Re formations - Sheffield United play a brilliant version of 352 showing it can be an attacking good to watch formation in the modern game. Unfortunately last week we played a 31411. Ie a ultra defensive version of 352.  We chop and change formations week to week and within games. It’s noticeable when we change “in game” that it usually becomes totally shapeless. I therefore think we must stick with a formation for a while and try to get some momentum. 

Re banzo. Absolutely howling performance last night as many have said. However I am going to defend him to some extent. I think he is doing multiple jobs in that midfield. He is being asked to be the defensive midfielder but also the guy who is available to everyone for a pass and also the playmaker moving the ball on. He has too many roles imo. 

Squad - we need a defensive midfield player ASAP. 

Signings - Williamson is a poor mans Christie Elliot. Robson  needs space to run into. The best thing about Alex jones so far is his song. Jury is out on miller signing presently. Mansell - would rather have dundee United s fourth choice striker. Palmer - looks ok. Gordon - decent for this level but still raw. De vita - Who?

Conclusion - Scott mcdonald kept us up last season, not Gary Caldwell  

 

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1 hour ago, jaf said:

 

Squad - we need a defensive midfield player ASAP. 

 

 

I agree with a lot of what you say, except this. The team is negative and ultra defensive enough. The last thing we need is yet another defensive minded player. We lack creativity and goals. We need an attacking midfielder, one who is capable of going forward, creating and scoring. Like Blair Spittal (but with more consistent good performances).

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2 hours ago, sandy said:

This in spades. We looked like a collection of odd sock players, not a team. Not enough quality, not a clear formation or response to DU upping their game. 

Although GC may have been prevented buying another 3-4 players, the quality of the signings he has brought in look mediocre. And if he can’t motivate Banzo or play O’Ware (could be captain) then there is something amiss.

We might improve as the season moves forward, but in the basis of last night we can forget promotion.

Banzo should easily be able to motivate himself he is hardly some young player 

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I thought that the manager last night had the tactics spot on. In the first half United couldn’t play through us and were restricted to long diagonal balls from their centre halves, resulting in very few chances. However, the second half was very different. The players looked absolutely shattered – what happened to the boast about being the fittest team ? From my seat, we were waiting for United to equalise. I disagree with some of the other posters – Robson and Penrice & Cardle and Williamson are starting to look like useful pairings and linked well. To my eyes the players gave all they had – no complaint about effort. Questions remain about stamina. All in all – there is hope for the future. As someone said to me on the bus home -’ Nevermind, it’s early days ‘

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