Dundee United Friday 9th August

[Auld Jag]

12 hours ago, Jaggernaut said:

At this early stage, it looks like we'll need some luck to avoid automatic relegation.

Really don't  think we will be relegated. There are 2 part time teams in the league, if we cant finish above them we are in big trouble. If I remember correctly Beattie mentioned our budget for this season is either 3rd or 4th best in the league. If we were to go on a run like Caldwell had when he first came to the club I don't think he would be kept on as manager. Of coarse that is assuming we could afford to get rid of him. Only 2 game gone I know, but I think it looks like Dundee Utd will win it. Dundee probably second and the next 2 play off places up for grabs. We should be looking to be in the mix for one of those places imo.

[jlsarmy]

11 minutes ago, Auld Jag said:

Really don't  think we will be relegated. There are 2 part time teams in the league, if we cant finish above them we are in big trouble. If I remember correctly Beattie mentioned our budget for this season is either 3rd or 4th best in the league. If we were to go on a run like Caldwell had when he first came to the club I don't think he would be kept on as manager. Of coarse that is assuming we could afford to get rid of him. Only 2 game gone I know, but I think it looks like Dundee Utd will win it. Dundee probably second and the next 2 play off places up for grabs. We should be looking to be in the mix for one of those places imo.

AJ , think it’s going to be another long season, but the point you made about replacing Caldwell is pertinent, can they afford to pay him off ? 

[Auld Jag]

1 minute ago, jlsarmy said:

AJ , think it’s going to be another long season, but the point you made about replacing Caldwell is pertinent, can they afford to pay him off ? 

Apart from Dundee Utd and Dundee at the top and Alloa and Arbroath at the bottom I don't see a lot between the other teams. I feel if we cant get into one of the play off spots it will be a missed chance. I don't think Caldwell will get such an easy time now we have a different board. But as I say can we afford to pay him off if required. I do hope it doesn't come to that.

[partickthedog]

If we cannot recruit any more players, we have to look hard and long as to how we improve and make better use of the players we already have, and that includes integrating and developing the younger players so that they are ready and able to play their part. The challenge to the funding of the youth academy etc must surely focus minds as to how we derive the maximum benefit from all these players into whom we have invested so much, instead of allowing this potential to slip through our fingers.

[sandy]

2 hours ago, Semi Nurainen said:

League table has an eerily familiar look about right now.

Aye...sadly 

[Semi Nurainen]

Safe, but very, very dull!

[Mr Bunny]

Before the United game, which I hoped we'd maybe draw but wasn't that confident, I thought the real test is when we play the teams like Morton, Inverness, Dunfermline, etc. particularly at home.  If we fail to get a decent number of wins against them then we've no chance of top 4.  If we get any bad defeats from some of them then it will be last season all over again with a fight to avoid instant relegation.  I think we ought to have enough in the current squad (once everyone is fit) to achieve mid table mediocrity and maybe if we're dead lucky sneak into 4th.  However, I have a worry that all the background of the takeover and so on will affect players minds (they always say they're not affected but often are), especially if things are not sorted out quickly.  And we haven't made a good start so far.

Edited August 10, 2019 by Mr Bunny

[jlsarmy]

5 minutes ago, Mr Bunny said:

Before the United game, which I hoped we'd maybe draw but wasn't that confident, I thought the real test is when we play the teams like Morton, Inverness, Dunfermline, etc. particularly at home.  If we fail to get a decent number of wins against them then we've no chance of top 4.  If we get any bad defeats from some of them then it will be last season all over again with a fight to avoid instant relegation.  I think we ought to have enough in the current squad (once everyone is fit) to achieve mid table mediocrity and maybe if we're dead lucky sneak into 4th.  However, I have a worry that all the background of the takeover and so on will affect players minds (they always say they're not affected but often are), especially if things are not sorted out quickly.  And we haven't made a good start so far.

The lack of goals in the team is worrying.

[scotty]

Just now, jlsarmy said:

The lack of goals in the team is worrying.

Kenny Miller told Tam and Stuart that he'll score 10 this season. (before  he signs for R**g**s)

[Lenziejag]

12 hours ago, Barney Rubble said:

Because it's his job to find one.

It's basics.

He can only find one if there is one available. 

Please don’t assume that I am a Caldwell supporter, but he can’t just magic a leader out of thin air. Now, if you know of players who were/are available that fit the leader mould, then you would have a point.

[jaf]

1 hour ago, Lenziejag said:

He can only find one if there is one available. 

Please don’t assume that I am a Caldwell supporter, but he can’t just magic a leader out of thin air. Now, if you know of players who were/are available that fit the leader mould, then you would have a point.

“Last year and this year the thing we have needed most is a leader. Kenny Miller isn’t one. Banzo isn’t one. None of the defenders are”

”why haven’t you signed one then”

”tell me one that’s available”

”no. That’s your job”

”there are none. The academies breed players differently so leaders are something that we are losing from the game”

what an absolutely ridiculous exchange. 

Mid you agree with the last point (which I don’t) then what he is saying is I have identified the thing we most need but that’s based on old football and those players don’t exist anymore. 

[Emsca]

14 hours ago, partickthedog said:

If we cannot recruit any more players, we have to look hard and long as to how we improve and make better use of the players we already have, and that includes integrating and developing the younger players so that they are ready and able to play their part. The challenge to the funding of the youth academy etc must surely focus minds as to how we derive the maximum benefit from all these players into whom we have invested so much, instead of allowing this potential to slip through our fingers.

Totally agree, but this  should be the standard normal way the Club is run. Good coaches work with what they have got and make them better. Mould a team into a unit that works, given the limitations and abilities of the players.Not decide on a method of playing and try to fit players into that system regardless of  suitability.

In a Club like Thistle I would expect at any point in time at least 1 youth player is being  gradually introduced to first team action.

 

[lady-isobel-barnett]

Probably been mentioned but O'Ware wasn't doing the full training that others who didn't play on Fri night were doing. 

I can accept Caldwell's statement about not being able to identify an available midfielder/defender who's a natural leader. Much as I can find fault in other aspects of his management I can believe there's a shortage of that type of character. Paul Paton may well have been about the only one available earlier in the close season and he's fairly flawed at that.  It's leadership qualities required with hypothetical player. As he'd be expected to play every game a decent level of stamina, fitness and ability would be required. So I'll let GC off with that. 

Like in other industries if you can't import the necessary skills you have to develop from within. Not easy granted, but Caldwell will have to identify a potential leader on the pitch and try to instill/develop leadership qualities. From a distance McGinty  appears to be the most likely candidate.

[West of Scotland]

You might think the army training day and the bus exercise were David Brent-esque exercises in buffoonery but Caldwell's at least trying to motivate his players to become leaders.

For me people like Fox and Harkins should be the ones leading the others in the dressing room and on the field.

[jlsarmy]

10 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

Probably been mentioned but O'Ware wasn't doing the full training that others who didn't play on Fri night were doing. 

I can accept Caldwell's statement about not being able to identify an available midfielder/defender who's a natural leader. Much as I can find fault in other aspects of his management I can believe there's a shortage of that type of character. Paul Paton may well have been about the only one available earlier in the close season and he's fairly flawed at that.  It's leadership qualities required with hypothetical player. As he'd be expected to play every game a decent level of stamina, fitness and ability would be required. So I'll let GC off with that. 

Like in other industries if you can't import the necessary skills you have to develop from within. Not easy granted, but Caldwell will have to identify a potential leader on the pitch and try to instill/develop leadership qualities. From a distance McGinty  appears to be the most likely candidate.

Don’t think the Captain thing is an issue at all , we’ve got plenty of experience Kenny Miller, Joe Cardle, Tam o Ware , Bannigan and Harkins 

Think one of the issues is probably what responsibility Caldwell would actually give to a Captain on the park , would he let a Captain make a decision to change things on the park ? , or does he just want a Captain to gee things up on the park , we’ve got plenty of experience in our team to do that and help the younger players if need be .

 

[lady-isobel-barnett]

4 minutes ago, jlsarmy said:

Don’t think the Captain thing is an issue at all , we’ve got plenty of experience Kenny Miller, Joe Cardle, Tam o Ware , Bannigan and Harkins 

Think one of the issues is probably what responsibility Caldwell would actually give to a Captain on the park , would he let a Captain make a decision to change things on the park ? , or does he just want a Captain to gee things up on the park , we’ve got plenty of experience in our team to do that and help the younger players if need be .

I'm taking GC's word on this. So in terms of leadership (as opposed to experience) we're evidently in very short supply.

[jlsarmy]

2 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

I'm taking GC's word on this. So in terms of leadership (as opposed to experience) we're evidently in very short supply.

Surprised you would take GC’s word on anything, I don’t .

[lady-isobel-barnett]

11 minutes ago, jlsarmy said:

Surprised you would take GC’s word on anything, I don’t .

I can believe that.

[jaf]

18 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

I'm taking GC's word on this. So in terms of leadership (as opposed to experience) we're evidently in very short supply.

But in his follow up comments he then said those sort of players don't exist anymore; therefore none of our opposition have them either?

I looked at DUFC team from Friday night and tried to work out who the leader in that team was. I haven't yet.

Then I thought about the Alloa team. Again I was not sure I identified what I would define as a leader.

If there are none anymore, then its a level playing field?

 

[jlsarmy]

5 minutes ago, jaf said:

But in his follow up comments he then said those sort of players don't exist anymore; therefore none of our opposition have them either?

I looked at DUFC team from Friday night and tried to work out who the leader in that team was. I haven't yet.

Then I thought about the Alloa team. Again I was not sure I identified what I would define as a leader.

If there are none anymore, then its a level playing field?

 

 

6 minutes ago, jaf said:

But in his follow up comments he then said those sort of players don't exist anymore; therefore none of our opposition have them either?

I looked at DUFC team from Friday night and tried to work out who the leader in that team was. I haven't yet.

Then I thought about the Alloa team. Again I was not sure I identified what I would define as a leader.

If there are none anymore, then its a level playing field?

 

I think you’re right , in modern day football I’m not sure of the relevance, if a club of Man City’s stature  decide to give David Silva the Captaincy on account him leaving at the end of the season, it probably says it all .

[lady-isobel-barnett]

5 minutes ago, jaf said:

But in his follow up comments he then said those sort of players don't exist anymore; therefore none of our opposition have them either?

I looked at DUFC team from Friday night and tried to work out who the leader in that team was. I haven't yet.

Then I thought about the Alloa team. Again I was not sure I identified what I would define as a leader.

If there are none anymore, then its a level playing field?

True he did say that but I think it's more likely to be a case of short supply than non existence. 

Btw Andy Graham at Alloa fits the bill. Not sure but maybe Reynolds or more likely, Connolly with United. Paton's captain at Dunfermline and maybe a good example as I feel it's his dig and determination, rather than his limited ability that gets him a game  You'd really have to ask fans of other clubs tho' if they've got a leader. I suspect most will.

[partickthedog]

1 hour ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

Probably been mentioned but O'Ware wasn't doing the full training that others who didn't play on Fri night were doing. 

I can accept Caldwell's statement about not being able to identify an available midfielder/defender who's a natural leader. Much as I can find fault in other aspects of his management I can believe there's a shortage of that type of character. Paul Paton may well have been about the only one available earlier in the close season and he's fairly flawed at that.  It's leadership qualities required with hypothetical player. As he'd be expected to play every game a decent level of stamina, fitness and ability would be required. So I'll let GC off with that. 

Like in other industries if you can't import the necessary skills you have to develop from within. Not easy granted, but Caldwell will have to identify a potential leader on the pitch and try to instill/develop leadership qualities. From a distance McGinty  appears to be the most likely candidate.

This may be because, depending on the quality of your eyesight, from a distance McGinty is the only player you can see.

If leadership quality is equated with launching the ball into orbit or going closest to the fans when doing the enthusiastic post-game clap, then Big Sean has it in spades.

[Guest]

On 8/9/2019 at 9:07 PM, Third Lanark said:

That’s good  now you can take back the sweaty words 

 

On 8/9/2019 at 9:08 PM, Barney Rubble said:

Any chance you could learn how to write coherent sentences?

I don't mind your bizarre opinions, but at least make them legible.

I find third posts sometimes enlightened and mostly interesting reads barney. Sometimes when he verbally jousts with others I get lost but I do love his humour.

Enjoyed this just with GRE, brings a little gravity to an otherwise worrying thread. Just my tuppence worth, keep up the good work

 

[Barney Rubble]

1 hour ago, Thistleberight said:

 

I find third posts sometimes enlightened and mostly interesting reads barney. Sometimes when he verbally jousts with others I get lost but I do love his humour.

Enjoyed this just with GRE, brings a little gravity to an otherwise worrying thread. Just my tuppence worth, keep up the good work

 

I prefer TL's levity personally.

Sir Isaac Newton would have difficulty with the level of gravity on here these days 

[dl1971]

I've been pretty supportive of GC but hes talking rubbish with regard to needing a leader on the park. My view is that all pro players should be leaders especially the experienced guys. How can Miller hope to be a manager without ahem leadership. It has been obvious for a while that as a team we are far too quiet on the park. We are missing McDonald badly at the moment. Maybe our new Aussie will bring a bit of steel to the line up. As always I'll reserve judgement fully until I'll seen another half dozen games.