Alloa Away (championship opener)

[Semi Nurainen]

The initial line up looked defensive, negative and risk-averse: eye-witness accounts (and the half-time score) appear to bear this out. The recurring theme seems to be 'hard to beat' (we lost a goal to part-timers!).

Improvement, again, seems to depend on bringing on an ageing striker (no criticism of KM intended).

Big Bawface (© Mark Roberts, 13.07.19) will need to do better, much much better.

 

[Graysie]

15 hours ago, jlsarmy said:

Got to say for the length of time Caldwell that has been there , I’m seeing very little difference in terms of improvement and quality, a good comparison was watching Dunfermline last night , they changed it after last season because it wasn’t working, signed a bunch of young players supplemented with some experience and you could see even in a short space of time what they were trying to do , getting full backs high up the park , closing down and getting the ball forward quickly to  Nisbet . 

All I see from Caldwell’s team is one paced sterile football, possession football with no end product, no chance you’re going to win promotion with that philosophy.

 

 

 

Spot on. Pedestrian and predictable. I saw no difference to the dross that was consistently dished up throughout last season and we seem to have added to our contingent of one footed players.  Hard to disagree with comments from others about mid table mediocrity at best on the basis of yesterday's performance.  Very uninspiring. 

[javeajag]

Clearly it wasn’t good enough and I thought his comments after the game were both good and concerning.....

either you sack him now or you give him some time which will probably be around the first quarter of the league 

[Semi Nurainen]

Agree he is improving at understanding, and articulating, what has gone wrong: slight concern is, what is he actually doing to correct the faults he sees.

Don't think we should sack him now.

[OAKBANK TERRACE]

Have to give credit to Alloa. On that performance most teams will find it hard against them. OK, we were poor in the first half especially but don't take anything away from them. They rarely wasted a ball and continually closed us down and I lost count of the times they blocked one of our clearances or passes. Nothing fancy, just very organised.

In saying that we let their players pick up the ball and run 10, 20, 30 or 40 yards unchallenged. As soon as we got it they were on us very quick and we had no space. I cant remember Sneddon having a decent save to make so give some credit to our defence. We had the doughnut shape sometimes (nothing in the middle) which allowed them to do that. O'Ware looks class and I liked the look of Jones when he came on. Needs to be on from the start as does Miller. Hopefully we'll see a difference on Friday with it being at home also. 

Big time wasting keeper can be annoying but he pulled off 2 world class saves and he looks a good keeper.

 

 

[Guest]

5 hours ago, sandy said:

Good to hear your analysis, TB.

What our manager says and what actually happens are not always the same. The problems from last season remain; initial tactics wrong, we are late to adjust, we are then coming from behind.

Our current squad is also incomplete. Something has to give surely? 

Cheers sandy. Having slept on it, and giving some reflection, this time last season we would have lost that game, no doubt in my mind about that. We showed spirit after losing the goal, kept puffing away and deserved our goal. On another day we'd have gone on to win.

They did create some half chances and but for their keeper we would have won. It was scrappy, we conceded possession and failed to keep possession way too much and because of GC's formation we lacked pace and dig in the centre. I lost count the number of times Gordon, bannigan and penrice couldn't catch their midfield. We have no sprint pace in the centre of the pitch which is worrying.

So for me, we dug out a result which is improvement on this time last season.

If we play that formation and the players perform like that on Friday we are looking like a 3 nil defeat. If we go to 4 at the back and a midfield of 5 with 1 up top we'll hopefully nullify their creativity, but we need to close them down as a unit, we didnt do that yesterday.

It's the first game I know, but I was expecting far more from this team and my previous prediction that we were going to win the league looks ill judged and hopefully/desperately naive.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Firhillista said:

Spot on.

My concern is that we have four midfielders who weren't playing yesterday - Palmer, Slater, Harkins and Wilson - and I don't think the inclusion of any of them would make a significant difference.

Given we've got six players (add in Bannigan and Gordon) for three positions, what's the chance of bringing in another midfielder who can transform things?

Agree but, Harkins played a few games last season in front of the centre halfs where penrice was yesterday, he has dig and range of passing for that role. I know he has no pace anymore but that role doesn't demand it. He did this to good effect, most notably the home game against hearts in the cup. As other posters have mentioned we need a bauben or osman type player and if the rumours are true and we don't have any money and will be making no other signings then we'll have to make do.

 

[Firhillista]

As disappointed as I was with yesterday's performance, on reflection I think the gap between us getting a draw and winning was paper thin. Their goal was a deflection that gave Sneddon no chance (although that it came off Saunders didn't surprise me - he's becoming my most feared Thistle defender, with McGinty coming close behind); the Alloa keeper made some brilliant saves to keep us out; we hit the bar; Miller was unlucky with a header... On another day, as they say, we might have won that.

The interesting thing is that, even if we had, the concerns expressed here would still be valid. Unlike others, I don't think the formation is the issue: it's the players inability to play it. Given that Caldwell works with them all week (and has done for months) why did so many look lost yesterday? And yet immediately after the start of the second half, we were right into them and scoring seemed only a matter of time. I find it all depressingly difficult to understand.

More concerning for me, are the rumours that we can't afford further signings and there's some kind of financial instability at the club. Next Saturday's opportunity to ask questions of the chair at the open day is going to be a must. 

[Dark Passenger]

14 hours ago, Thistle88 said:

A new centre half to partner Big Tam would be ******* ideal.  I don't  rate Saunders at all he was just an upgrade on Keown at the time.  And we all know Mcginty.

McGinty was the best of our three CHs. And his cross for Cardle's goal was sublime.

I'm concerned with the ease that O'Ware's beaten the the air. It's been apparent over the course of the League Cup games - the goal we conceded against QP being a prime example - and it continued yesterday.

[Firhillista]

Did think Alex Jones looked good when he came on. Maybe he's the one who'll score 15 goals for us this season....

[Fawlty Towers]

Watched the highlights and whilst Alloa may have played well we could easily have won the game - often it is the other way with us as we outplay the opposition but they score when they get the chance.

The interviews with the manager, Penrice and Cardle were all very honest - Penrice was very harsh on himself but they all stated that they know they can, and must, do better.

[allyo]

16 hours ago, javeajag said:

One game and the season is over .....

lets wait and see where we are in October 

I would agree. Far too early to judge.

My argument is with the suggestion that a game away to Alloa is a lesser measure of our prospects than a game against Dundee United. We finished within a point or two of Alloa last season. On that basis they are the perfect measure of our progress and to suggest otherwise seems like arrogance to me.

As for plastic pitches. We need to get over it. It's currently part of the game in Scotland, for good or bad. If you can't play on plastic you won't win much.

[westertonjagfan]

5 hours ago, Lenziejag said:

That was so disappointing. How many times did we hit the ball into an Alloa player, when trying to clear.

And how slowly did we play. In this league you need to play with a high tempo. We showed during the league cup games we can do that. Not today.

The only positive is that we only played for about 20 mins and came away with a draw.

Absolutely spot on. I get so frustrated when we work hard to clear the ball then simply gift possession to the opposing team. Football at heart is a very simple game-keep possession of the ball and it's more difficult for the opposing team to score.  Also agree about the tempo-so slow to get the ball out of our own half.  A team of part-timers should be fading towards the end of the game if we play with a fast tempo and press high up the pitch. Credit to Alloa, though-it was hard at times to tell who were the full time players.

Edited August 4, 2019 by westertonjagfan

[westertonjagfan]

12 minutes ago, Fawlty Towers said:

Watched the highlights and whilst Alloa may have played well we could easily have won the game - often it is the other way with us as we outplay the opposition but they score when they get the chance.

The interviews with the manager, Penrice and Cardle were all very honest - Penrice was very harsh on himself but they all stated that they know they can, and must, do better.

Agree with your points about the interviews-good to see the more Pravda approach being dropped and the players and GC being honest about their own performances. I thought Joe played his heart out as usual, but seemed a bit confused as to where he was being asked to play.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

35 minutes ago, Semi Nurainen said:

Agree he is improving at understanding, and articulating, what has gone wrong: slight concern is, what is he actually doing to correct the faults he sees.

Don't think we should sack him now.

This.

Altho' I'm as confused as hell re his starting formation  (would be tolerable if it wasn't so inflexible) I feel the delay in changing it was the bigger sin yesterday. Tho' I wouldn't go so far to say the narrow set up was completely redundant once Alloa took the lead, it certainly required more than just tweaking.  Effectively we played about a third of the game after Alloa scored before altering the formation. Albeit we scored prior to the change and had upped the tempo and intensity after the break. But we really needed to pin back their full backs and make more use of the widened pitch,

One of Archie's flaws was delaying substitutions, which is something I don't think we can accuse Caldwell of doing. If only GC was as quick to alter set ups we might be able to turn more draws into wins and defeats into draws. I get the impression that each player knows his role in the team and his responsibilities are drummed into him. At the same time I also get the impression for want of more accurate words  we're a bit heavy on the dogmatic and too light on the pragmatic. That might  explain how  we're maybe a tad too predictable.

On the brighter side, tho' we've obvious frailties to be addressed, I don't think we're too far off having a good season. Adding to the squad is of course a necessity but I'm far from despondent re the players we have just now. Just feel we need to play less rigid.

[westertonjagfan]

1 hour ago, OAKBANK TERRACE said:

Have to give credit to Alloa. On that performance most teams will find it hard against them. OK, we were poor in the first half especially but don't take anything away from them. They rarely wasted a ball and continually closed us down and I lost count of the times they blocked one of our clearances or passes. Nothing fancy, just very organised.

In saying that we let their players pick up the ball and run 10, 20, 30 or 40 yards unchallenged. As soon as we got it they were on us very quick and we had no space. I cant remember Sneddon having a decent save to make so give some credit to our defence. We had the doughnut shape sometimes (nothing in the middle) which allowed them to do that. O'Ware looks class and I liked the look of Jones when he came on. Needs to be on from the start as does Miller. Hopefully we'll see a difference on Friday with it being at home also. 

Big time wasting keeper can be annoying but he pulled off 2 world class saves and he looks a good keeper.

 

 

Spot on. The big number 5 had acres to space to run towards our goal. i also think Jones looks a real player.

[Barney Rubble]

3 hours ago, Firhillista said:

As disappointed as I was with yesterday's performance, on reflection I think the gap between us getting a draw and winning was paper thin. Their goal was a deflection that gave Sneddon no chance (although that it came off Saunders didn't surprise me - he's becoming my most feared Thistle defender, with McGinty coming close behind); the Alloa keeper made some brilliant saves to keep us out; we hit the bar; Miller was unlucky with a header... On another day, as they say, we might have won that.

The interesting thing is that, even if we had, the concerns expressed here would still be valid. Unlike others, I don't think the formation is the issue: it's the players inability to play it. Given that Caldwell works with them all week (and has done for months) why did so many look lost yesterday? And yet immediately after the start of the second half, we were right into them and scoring seemed only a matter of time. I find it all depressingly difficult to understand.

More concerning for me, are the rumours that we can't afford further signings and there's some kind of financial instability at the club. Next Saturday's opportunity to ask questions of the chair at the open day is going to be a must. 

If the formation isn't the issue, then GC's inability to sign players that are comfortable playing his preferred formation is clearly an issue.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

1 hour ago, Barney Rubble said:

If the formation isn't the issue, then GC's inability to sign players that are comfortable playing his preferred formation is clearly an issue.

The irony to that, Cardle, being arguably our best player so far this season, is most unsuited to the default formation. Says a lot about the player and here's hoping he stays fit.

[Jaggy Bunnet]

4 hours ago, Firhillista said:

Did think Alex Jones looked good when he came on. Maybe he's the one who'll score 15 goals for us this season....

Agree. Some nice touches. Seems to have pace, and not easily brushed off the ball. Could be worth starting him and Miller. The Alex Jones song started by the youngsters was fun!

[Firhillista]

1 hour ago, Barney Rubble said:

If the formation isn't the issue, then GC's inability to sign players that are comfortable playing his preferred formation is clearly an issue.

No, sorry, I don't buy it. Any half decent professional player can play in this formation. Don't forget there were two teams playing with three at the back yesterday - it was just that Alloa were the ones who looked like they knew what they were doing.

The issue is still with the players. We all recognise it, we've watched it for two seasons or more - that faintly distracted air, that 'oh look, there's a squirrel' thing when they incomprehensibly loose concentration at the worst possible time, those puzzled looks between players when one passes to the other and the recipient hasn't made the expected run, the slow, slow passing of the ball because, well, who knows? reasons?, the faffing about with the ball to ensure the opponent has maximum time to get a tackle in. And on, and on.

And then they switch on and it looks like they know what they're about. The ball goes zipping around the place, players make powerful runs, the opposition is on the back foot and all's right with the world.

Caldwell can be criticised for a lot - and he is - but players like Bannigan, Penrice, Saunders, McGinty - and others to be fair - need to up their game. Toot sweet.

[Barney Rubble]

16 minutes ago, Firhillista said:

No, sorry, I don't buy it. Any half decent professional player can play in this formation. Don't forget there were two teams playing with three at the back yesterday - it was just that Alloa were the ones who looked like they knew what they were doing.

The issue is still with the players. We all recognise it, we've watched it for two seasons or more - that faintly distracted air, that 'oh look, there's a squirrel' thing when they incomprehensibly loose concentration at the worst possible time, those puzzled looks between players when one passes to the other and the recipient hasn't made the expected run, the slow, slow passing of the ball because, well, who knows? reasons?, the faffing about with the ball to ensure the opponent has maximum time to get a tackle in. And on, and on.

And then they switch on and it looks like they know what they're about. The ball goes zipping around the place, players make powerful runs, the opposition is on the back foot and all's right with the world.

Caldwell can be criticised for a lot - and he is - but players like Bannigan, Penrice, Saunders, McGinty - and others to be fair - need to up their game. Toot sweet.

Not a lot to disagree with to be fair, but your opening sentence underlines my point.

Alloa knew what they were doing in a three. We did not.

Ultimately, who is responsible for that?

 

[jagfox]

First half was poor, and we kept ceding possession back to the Wasps. Still we kept them down to pot shots at goal. Sneddon had no chance with their goal but Saunders has to be culpable for that to a degree.  

Midfield was missing/ unbalanced and we are looking thin there now due to injuries. Despite that we created 5 or 6 great chances and their keeper had a MotM performance. 

I don’t think we can play much worse than we did in the first 45 minutes so that’s all I took from that apart from Gordon’s header from a fantastic deep cross from Robson. 

Second half wasn’t great but a lot better, with us probably creating better chances than we did in the last two games at Alloa. 

Disappointed in a lot of things yesterday and that we didn’t find the winner. Hopefully Miller, Palmer and Jones and De Vita are pushing for a starting place soon. 

[jlsarmy]

1 hour ago, Firhillista said:

No, sorry, I don't buy it. Any half decent professional player can play in this formation. Don't forget there were two teams playing with three at the back yesterday - it was just that Alloa were the ones who looked like they knew what they were doing.

The issue is still with the players. We all recognise it, we've watched it for two seasons or more - that faintly distracted air, that 'oh look, there's a squirrel' thing when they incomprehensibly loose concentration at the worst possible time, those puzzled looks between players when one passes to the other and the recipient hasn't made the expected run, the slow, slow passing of the ball because, well, who knows? reasons?, the faffing about with the ball to ensure the opponent has maximum time to get a tackle in. And on, and on.

And then they switch on and it looks like they know what they're about. The ball goes zipping around the place, players make powerful runs, the opposition is on the back foot and all's right with the world.

Caldwell can be criticised for a lot - and he is - but players like Bannigan, Penrice, Saunders, McGinty - and others to be fair - need to up their game. Toot sweet.

Much of what you say is right but yesterday Caldwell was trying to play players in unfamiliar positions, Cardle as a no 10 , Penrice as a defensive midfielder and Mcginty is like a fish out of water playing on the left side of a 3 with the ball getting played in behind him . 

Play systems to the players strengths and all this nonsense about how we combat Alloa is coming across as a negative.

The rhetoric was we started the season early to get the players superfit , we’re full time players, let the players express themselves and let them play on the front foot and not stifle them with containing tactics about the opposition.

It was Alloa we were playing not Barcelona 

[Barney Rubble]

9 minutes ago, jlsarmy said:

Much of what you say is right but yesterday Caldwell was trying to play players in unfamiliar positions, Cardle as a no 10 , Penrice as a defensive midfielder and Mcginty is like a fish out of water playing on the left side of a 3 with the ball getting played in behind him . 

Play systems to the players strengths and all this nonsense about how we combat Alloa is coming across as a negative.

The rhetoric was we started the season early to get the players superfit , we’re full time players, let the players express themselves and let them play on the front foot and not stifle them with containing tactics about the opposition.

It was Alloa we were playing not Barcelona 

^^^^

This.

in spades.

[Fawlty Towers]

Saturday was a disppointment but it was not the end of the world. Was looking to see how today's win for our ladies team had changed the league table and saw this:

https://www.womenspremierleague.co.uk/fixtures-results/

So just be happy you don't support Hutchison Vale's Ladies!