vs. Ayr United, Aug 31

[partickthedog]

Why was McGinty captain yesterday? I seem to have missed the story about the change of captaincy? Is this a permanent change or a one off?

[jaf]

4 minutes ago, partickthedog said:

Why was McGinty captain yesterday? I seem to have missed the story about the change of captaincy? Is this a permanent change or a one off?

Think it’s related to the alleged bust up after the Morton game. 

[jaf]

14 minutes ago, Derby Jag said:

Both red cards for me but neither malicious as such. 

The lack of changes after going to 9 was unbelievable management.

Also not getting the Bannigan hate I've read everywhere. He was comfortably the best midfielder on the park today until, well he wasn't on the park. The only one of the three today who has any passing and positional  ability. 

Out of likes.  But agree. 

For the first 30 minutes in particular Bannigan was excellent yesterday. 

People will only understand what we are missing once he is gone. Which will probably be sooner than expected. 

Edited September 1, 2019 by jaf

[jaf]

13 minutes ago, Jaggernaut said:

Good quality, free highlights from ayrunitedfctv now on Youtube:

 

Watching that back reminds me how much worse it could have been!

Our penalty also looks pretty soft?

 

[Dick Dastardly]

From the excellent Ayr highlights, both sending off look correct (Shea you would have moaned if it was the other way and wasn't given). Doolan was onside for his goal.

[RaveOnBobbyLaw]

From the highlights Gordon’s is a booking but never a red for me. 

[Jaggernaut]

1 minute ago, RaveOnBobbyLaw said:

From the highlights Gordon’s is a booking but never a red for me. 

Same here. But Bannigan deserved a red, without question.

Zanatta was brilliant, at least from the highlights. A shame he seems to be surrounded by duds.

[Norgethistle]

8 hours ago, jagfox said:

Shut up!

Or what?

[Firhillista]

It's a wonder to me why so much weight is put on eye-witness accounts in the courts. I was convinced yesterday that Bannigan's challenge was clumsy, accidental, not worth more than a booking. Having reviewed the CCTV footage, m'lud, he's guilty as charged!

Looking at the video, the only reasonable response is, WTF?!

Bannigan isn't the player he was, but he's being asked to carry far too much weight in that midfield. Judging by the rumours circulating on Twitter, he'll be off soon anyway.

It's all a bit of a shambles, isn't it?

Having calmed down since yesterday and trying to take an objective view as possible - Thistle should not be in their current position; the responsibility for that must rest with the management team; only winning games is the measure by which their continued employment should be judged.

The only key players now are David Beattie and Gerry Brittain. Brittain has to advise the board as to whether Caldwell should be given more game time to turn things around or be removed immediately; Beattie has to decide whether the cost of bringing in a new manager, and compensating the departing one, can sit comfortably within the ongoing takeover negotiations.

I suspect that human nature being what it is, the decision will be delayed in the hope that things will work out in the next few games.

Whatever happens, I believe that Gary Caldwell is a dead man walking - his time at Thistle is almost up. He's failed to do what he was brought in for, and what he himself said we're his aims. I suspect his time in football management is almost up too. What club would want him now?

I wish I could identify a replacement who I'd be confident could turn the club around, but I can't. Feeling calmer this morning, but not any more optimistic.

[Gnome on the Bing]

Our squad is of a quality that makes our position in the league unacceptable. This team should be playing better than it is and winning more games than it is. We should be able to respond to tactical changes made by the opposition without collapsing in disarray. Being generous, yesterday's game is more difficult to draw conclusions from due to the sendings off, but even before Gordon saw red our defence looked extremely shaky. O'Ware should be starting, as should Cardle. 

[allyo]

14 hours ago, Firhillista said:

Zanatta, but apparently we're not allowed to say that because that deflects from the 'let's lynch Caldwell' campaign.

We were comfortable in that game. Until the poor pass back from Hall - which he was complaining was the result of a foul the referee missed, hard to believe, I know - Ayr had done nothing. We were in the driving seat and dominating the game.

If we'd come out in the second half with 11 men and 2-1 up, we'd have won that game.

Even defending the lead with 10 men, we were comfortable.

The team played well. But no team can deal comfortably with a two-man disadvantage against any opponent, even opponents as poor as Ayr were today.

Ayr United are currently second in the league: we are miles better than them.

I totally respect the balanced posts you're providing in this thread, a breath of fresh air from the hysteria and (frankly embarrassing among adults) name calling; but I'm struggling to agree with you.

We've lost three consecutive league games from leading positions. That to me represents a trend and a weakness and one the manager should be called out for.

The red cards were questionable but Bannigan's didn't surprise me and if a team is throwing itself into hopeless and risky tackles then the manager is not blameless.

I thought we were poor in the first half, with exception of one outstanding player. I didn't see any good shape, any good moves (except Zanatta's runs) and our defence was as shaky as ever. It didn't look clever for the goal or for their disallowed effort.

Referee was terrible but we benefitted from what I thought was a dodgy penalty decision.

And I didn't have any hope or expectation when we went a goal behind (though that's to be expected with 9.

I agree with those who say this team and these signing look as desperate as those at the start of last season. I'm just not seeing many positives. Even the County game was, I thought, poor for 80 minutes, though the exhilaration of extra time masked this.

I'm always one for patience, but if it's not completely gone then it's definitely running out.

 

[KemoAvdiu]

10 hours ago, javeajag said:

I’m not aware that any of this has been confirmed as fact ? 

I heard this too, from someone who was told by someone. 

[allyo]

46 minutes ago, Firhillista said:

It's a wonder to me why so much weight is put on eye-witness accounts in the courts. I was convinced yesterday that Bannigan's challenge was clumsy, accidental, not worth more than a booking. Having reviewed the CCTV footage, m'lud, he's guilty as charged!

Looking at the video, the only reasonable response is, WTF?!

Bannigan isn't the player he was, but he's being asked to carry far too much weight in that midfield. Judging by the rumours circulating on Twitter, he'll be off soon anyway.

It's all a bit of a shambles, isn't it?

Having calmed down since yesterday and trying to take an objective view as possible - Thistle should not be in their current position; the responsibility for that must rest with the management team; only winning games is the measure by which their continued employment should be judged.

The only key players now are David Beattie and Gerry Brittain. Brittain has to advise the board as to whether Caldwell should be given more game time to turn things around or be removed immediately; Beattie has to decide whether the cost of bringing in a new manager, and compensating the departing one, can sit comfortably within the ongoing takeover negotiations.

I suspect that human nature being what it is, the decision will be delayed in the hope that things will work out in the next few games.

Whatever happens, I believe that Gary Caldwell is a dead man walking - his time at Thistle is almost up. He's failed to do what he was brought in for, and what he himself said we're his aims. I suspect his time in football management is almost up too. What club would want him now?

I wish I could identify a replacement who I'd be confident could turn the club around, but I can't. Feeling calmer this morning, but not any more 

I actually wrote my last post before reading this one. We're of similar views I think.

Edited September 1, 2019 by allyo

[laukat]

Why is O'Ware not playing? Does it not suggest something is seriously wrong when the best right sided central defender in the league is now 3rd choice for us?

Bannigan is a shadow of the player he was largely because he's being played out of position. However yesterday and at Morton there were indications that he's not comfortable with the manager. The red card and increased numbers of yellows are symptomatic of a player who's not comfortable with what he's being asked to do. Chico was the extreme example of this.

He's just about to tur 27 so he should be someone going into the prime of his career but is going backwards.Bannigan has certainly not improved under Caldwell.

I wouldn't be surprised if both Bannigan and O'Ware left before the window shuts

1 point from 12 is poor and can't continue. A loss at Abroath and the board have to act.

 

[jlsarmy]

Think it’s time for Caldwell to come out and tell us why O’ware isn’t playing, if it’s injury related then that’s ok but O’ware before his injury was probably one of the best defenders in the league and also the highest goal scoring defender in Europe .

[javeajag]

46 minutes ago, KemoAvdiu said:

I heard this too, from someone who was told by someone. 

What a fabulous post !

[dl1971]

13 minutes ago, laukat said:

Why is O'Ware not playing? Does it not suggest something is seriously wrong when the best right sided central defender in the league is now 3rd choice for us?

Bannigan is a shadow of the player he was largely because he's being played out of position. However yesterday and at Morton there were indications that he's not comfortable with the manager. The red card and increased numbers of yellows are symptomatic of a player who's not comfortable with what he's being asked to do. Chico was the extreme example of this.

He's just about to tur 27 so he should be someone going into the prime of his career but is going backwards.Bannigan has certainly not improved under Caldwell.

I wouldn't be surprised if both Bannigan and O'Ware left before the window shuts

1 point from 12 is poor and can't continue. A loss at Abroath and the board have to act.

 

I thought bannigan was playing ok up to when he was sent off. The sending off was solely down to him and him alone. He has a history of plenty off yellow and red cards pre Caldwell. He doesnt have the pace to be an attacking midfielder so I'm not sure where the alternative is. O'ware a mystery. Should have came on when we went down to 10 imo. Final point. If it was 11 v 11 I'm not so sure we would have won. Ayr are not a bad team so various posters way off the mark with that.

Edited September 1, 2019 by dl1971
Typo

[Mad Mull Jag]

2 hours ago, jaf said:

Think it’s related to the alleged bust up after the Morton game. 

I hadnt heard of nay bust up after last week.

 

Reading between the lines and the fact that banzo ran to oware when he scored would suggest that the palyers Caldwell didn't sign he doesn't want or like ?

 

[milhouse]

40 minutes ago, jlsarmy said:

Think it’s time for Caldwell to come out and tell us why O’ware isn’t playing, if it’s injury related then that’s ok but O’ware before his injury was probably one of the best defenders in the league and also the highest goal scoring defender in Europe .

After rupturing his ACL, and some Greenock fans saying he was quite good, Tam O'Ware has mythically transformed into Thistle's greatest centre back of all time. He hasn't particularly impressed me at any point. 

[laukat]

7 minutes ago, milhouse said:

After rupturing his ACL, and some Greenock fans saying he was quite good, Tam O'Ware has mythically transformed into Thistle's greatest centre back of all time. He hasn't particularly impressed me at any point. 

We can disagree on if he is world beater or not but surely he has to be recognised as better than Saunders or Hall?

I like Saunders but he's a right back who's been converted to centreback. He's good in the air but nowhere near O'Ware's ability on the ground.

Hall hasn't played or had a club in a considerable time but he's deemed a better option than O'Ware?

Added to this that the manager's clear preference was 3 at the back and you have to figure that O'Ware isn't getting a game for non-footballing reasons.

[jlsarmy]

3 minutes ago, milhouse said:

After rupturing his ACL, and some Greenock fans saying he was quite good, Tam O'Ware has mythically transformed into Thistle's greatest centre back of all time. He hasn't particularly impressed me at any point. 

Not the case at all , but if you’ve got an experienced Centre back who has proved he can play at this level over the years and watch yesterday’s goals or the goals Saunders and Mcginty have given away the last few weeks then it’s a bit strange he’s not had a look in .

Nobody has said he’s the best player in the world but even yesterday Caldwell throwing in Ben Hall whose career in first team football is limited at best and cost us a goal into the bargain, then Caldwell’s choices seem bizarre.

[Dick Dastardly]

O’Ware is joining that list of Jags in the huge disappointment category. I had high expectations when he joined, but due to injury and whatever reason now, we have hardly seen him

[Blackpool Jags]

Another omnishambles under Caldwell. The sooner he gets punted the sooner we can start to prepare for survival.

On a pleasant note, it was nice to meet and speak to Auld Jag before kick off. A gentleman and a true Jag. First time I'd been in the north stand for a bit and seen the plaque in memory of Robert. A lovely piece of work. 

[Emsca]

17 hours ago, Big Col said:

Sorry to disappoint you but I don’t know Sandy. I supported the team throughout the whole 90 minutes today - not one negative comment or shout during the match. 

Don’t start this “real supporters” nonsense. What makes you a better supporter than me? Do you not want success for the club? Do you think Caldwell and the squad he has assembled will give us success? 

Sorry to disappoint you but I don’t know Sandy. - you should arrange to meet him , i'm sure you would get on like a house on fire.

I supported the team throughout the whole 90 minutes today - not one negative comment or shout during the match. - well done

What makes you a better supporter than me- where did i suggest i was? ( although I bet I'm better looking!!)

Do you not want success for the club-- that is not even worthy of a reply.

Do you think Caldwell and the squad he has assembled will give us success?  Actually yes I do given time..

 

 

[lady-isobel-barnett]

Don't know anything about the O'Ware situation tho' I believe he wasn't 100% fit a couple of weeks ago.

Tho' Zanatta was easily MotM I thought if Bannigan continues playing the way he was in the first half and Dario gets early subbed, then it would be a close call. Many of the balls Zanatta received were long passes from Stuart and in general he was playing very well.  

In isolation there's mitigating factors re Caldwell and these last two defeats. Yesterday it's reasonable to argue we may have got all three points if we'd have kept 11 men on the pitch. At Cappielow you could argue the manager was effectively powerless in being able to avoid the players on the pitch tossing a two goal lead away, thru lack of on-field leadership or whatever. But that's in isolation and when you bracket both games together it's beginning to look too coincidental to excuse the manager. Factor in the other two league performances and it's not much short of damning.

If as I suspect there's a severe lack of harmony between manager and some key players then I wouldn't be surprised if Caldwell's gone sooner rather than later. The only thing that may determine otherwise is the non football off field situation, whatever that actually is.

Edited September 1, 2019 by lady-isobel-barnett