partickthedog Posted September 1, 2019 Report Share Posted September 1, 2019 (edited) 23 hours ago, Barney Rubble said: As well as the valid question above, when was the last time we had two reds in a competitive game? Barney No one seems to have answered you (perhaps too busy fighting other battles). Purely off the top of my head, here are my memories of relatively recent multi-dismissals. I am sure that there are more: 1) Late 1990s-Arbroath v Partick Thistle in the Scottish Cup. Dave Kennedy, Des McKeown and Jamie McKenzie all red carded but the 8 men hold on to win 2-1. 2) 2001-Partick Thistle v Queen of South the week after we had clinched promotion at Stirling. Steven Docherty dismissed for handball in the first half and then Martin Hardie and somebody else (cannot remember who) in quick succession in the second half. Cassidy was the referee. We lost, but were not hammered (0-1 or 0-2?). 3) Mid 2000s-Airdrie v Partick Thistle. Grant Murray and Andy Wilkinson sent off within a few minutes of each other. I think Juan Ramon Escalas scored when we only had 9 men, but we ended up losing 2-4. Edited September 1, 2019 by partickthedog 8, not 10, men at Arbroath, Thank you, Pinhead! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted September 1, 2019 Report Share Posted September 1, 2019 Caldwell took out Erskine & Dools to try and stamp his authority. If rumours of a bust-up with O’Ware and Banzo are true, he’s lost the dressing room anyway. O’Ware should be playing, arguably as captain. Most of these players are better than bottom of the Championship. Yet I don’t think Caldwell is getting the most out of them. Tactics suspect, subs too late and often the wrong choices. I don’t think this manager is up to the task I’m afraid. He’s had nearly a whole year to prove his PowerPoint slides and Player Dossiers were evidence of his ability. He’s failed in all respects - and we need to let him go. Id rather have Jack Ross, Stephen Craigan or Danny Lennon right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gianlucatoni Posted September 1, 2019 Report Share Posted September 1, 2019 1 hour ago, jlsarmy said: Senior players usually have a say in a dressing room , acting as a buffer between the players and the manager to implement his ideas . If he hasn’t got the senior players on board the chances are the manager loses the dressing room and players don’t want to play for him anymore . This is exactly what goes on in dressing rooms & training up & down the country - junior players should shut the **** up and listen whilst senior players are entrusted by management to act as go between and have the latutude/trust go as far as bollocking the players on their behalf. He's gave the players out the white envelopes before summer & asked for their input - genie's out the bottle now so he can't gave it both ways - it does indeed sound like he's lost it & behaving like crap supply teacher in doling out puerile punishment to O 'Ware. Shoogly peg, maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted September 1, 2019 Report Share Posted September 1, 2019 4 minutes ago, gianlucatoni said: This is exactly what goes on in dressing rooms & training up & down the country - junior players should shut the **** up and listen whilst senior players are entrusted by management to act as go between and have the latutude/trust go as far as bollocking the players on their behalf. He's gave the players out the white envelopes before summer & asked for their input - genie's out the bottle now so he can't gave it both ways - it does indeed sound like he's lost it & behaving like crap supply teacher in doling out puerile punishment to O 'Ware. Shoogly peg, maybe. Envelope-gate was hugely embarrassing to us. Shoogly Peg time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ancipital Posted September 1, 2019 Report Share Posted September 1, 2019 16 minutes ago, partickthedog said: Barney No one seems to have answered you (perhaps too busy fighting other battles). Purely off the top of my head, here are my memories of relatively recent multi-dismissals. I am sure that there are more: 1) Late 1990s-Arbroath v Partick Thistle in the Scottish Cup. Dave Kennedy, Des McKeown and Jamie McKenzie all red carded but the 10 men hold on to win 2-1. 2) 2001-Partick Thistle v Queen of South the week after we had clinched promotion at Stirling. Steven Docherty dismissed for handball in the first half and then Martin Hardie and somebody else (cannot remember who) in quick succession in the second half. Cassidy was the referee. We lost, but were not hammered (0-1 or 0-2?). 3) Mid 2000s-Airdrie v Partick Thistle. Grant Murray and Andy Wilkinson sent off within a few minutes of each other. I think Juan Ramon Escalas scored when we only had 9 men, but we ended up losing 2-4. More recently away at Tannadice, Conrad Balatoni and ...er... Stuart Bannigan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a f kincaid Posted September 1, 2019 Report Share Posted September 1, 2019 Here's a list of all known 1st team matches with 2 or more sendings off... 1977-78 CELTIC H 0 4 McADAM HOUSTON 1983-84 GREENOCK MORTON A 2 1 McDONALD JARDINE 1983-84 CLYDE H 1 2 KAY JARDINE 1995-96 RANGERS H 1 2 McDONALD (ROD) MacDONALD (BILLY) 1996-97 FALKIRK A 0 1 EVANS TURNER 1997-98 STIRLING ALBION A 2 2 MacDONALD (BILLY) MILNE 1998-99 ARBROATH A 2 1 McKEOWN McKENZIE KENNEDY 2000-01 QUEEN OF THE SOUTH H 0 2 DOCHERTY McNALLY HARDIE 2004-05 AIRDRIE UNITED A 2 4 MURRAY (GRANT) WILKINSON 2011-12 BERWICK RANGERS H 1 3 PATON BALATONI 2013-14 DUNDEE UNITED A 1 4 BALATONI BANNIGAN 2019-20 AYR UNTED H 2 3 GORDON BANNIGAN 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Rubble Posted September 1, 2019 Report Share Posted September 1, 2019 20 minutes ago, a f kincaid said: Here's a list of all known 1st team matches with 2 or more sendings off... 1977-78 CELTIC H 0 4 McADAM HOUSTON 1983-84 GREENOCK MORTON A 2 1 McDONALD JARDINE 1983-84 CLYDE H 1 2 KAY JARDINE 1995-96 RANGERS H 1 2 McDONALD (ROD) MacDONALD (BILLY) 1996-97 FALKIRK A 0 1 EVANS TURNER 1997-98 STIRLING ALBION A 2 2 MacDONALD (BILLY) MILNE 1998-99 ARBROATH A 2 1 McKEOWN McKENZIE KENNEDY 2000-01 QUEEN OF THE SOUTH H 0 2 DOCHERTY McNALLY HARDIE 2004-05 AIRDRIE UNITED A 2 4 MURRAY (GRANT) WILKINSON 2011-12 BERWICK RANGERS H 1 3 PATON BALATONI 2013-14 DUNDEE UNITED A 1 4 BALATONI BANNIGAN 2019-20 AYR UNTED H 2 3 GORDON BANNIGAN Cheers AF - and thanks as well to PTD for his response. The Rangers one still rankles given that the referee, Alan Ferguson, pretty much admitted after the game that he had not applied the rules properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinhead Posted September 1, 2019 Report Share Posted September 1, 2019 1 hour ago, partickthedog said: Barney No one seems to have answered you (perhaps too busy fighting other battles). Purely off the top of my head, here are my memories of relatively recent multi-dismissals. I am sure that there are more: 1) Late 1990s-Arbroath v Partick Thistle in the Scottish Cup. Dave Kennedy, Des McKeown and Jamie McKenzie all red carded but the 10 men hold on to win 2-1. 2) 2001-Partick Thistle v Queen of South the week after we had clinched promotion at Stirling. Steven Docherty dismissed for handball in the first half and then Martin Hardie and somebody else (cannot remember who) in quick succession in the second half. Cassidy was the referee. We lost, but were not hammered (0-1 or 0-2?). 3) Mid 2000s-Airdrie v Partick Thistle. Grant Murray and Andy Wilkinson sent off within a few minutes of each other. I think Juan Ramon Escalas scored when we only had 9 men, but we ended up losing 2-4. No wonder they were sent off if we started with 13 players lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spandau Posted September 1, 2019 Report Share Posted September 1, 2019 1 hour ago, Barney Rubble said: Cheers AF - and thanks as well to PTD for his response. The Rangers one still rankles given that the referee, Alan Ferguson, pretty much admitted after the game that he had not applied the rules properly. Barney, my recollection was the ref was Jim McGillivray, an Edinburgh taxi driver to trade? My wife and I returned to Waverley station after a weekend in London not long after this game and we let the couple behind us in the queue take his taxi when we saw he was the driver. After the game I remember he said something along the lines of preventing a riot by not sending Paul Gascoigne off for fighting with Tom Smith. No such reluctance to send our boys off though. I think he did the decent thing and retired from reffing shortly afterwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bunny Posted September 1, 2019 Report Share Posted September 1, 2019 1 hour ago, Barney Rubble said: Cheers AF - and thanks as well to PTD for his response. The Rangers one still rankles given that the referee, Alan Ferguson, pretty much admitted after the game that he had not applied the rules properly. Aye McDonald was booked for crossing himself then got another yellow later in the game to be sent off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Rubble Posted September 1, 2019 Report Share Posted September 1, 2019 1 minute ago, Mr Bunny said: Aye McDonald was booked for crossing himself then got another yellow later in the game to be sent off. Wasn't it the other way round? I could be wrong with that though. What I am not wrong about is that Borna Barisic blessed himself twice when coming off injured against Legia the other night. Thank **** the Scottish football authorities have moved on since 1995 and now have a grip on member clubs' supporters bigoted songs and behaviour. Oh wait............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a f kincaid Posted September 1, 2019 Report Share Posted September 1, 2019 2 hours ago, a f kincaid said: Here's a list of all known 1st team matches with 2 or more sendings off... 1977-78 CELTIC H 0 4 McADAM HOUSTON 1983-84 GREENOCK MORTON A 2 1 McDONALD JARDINE 1983-84 CLYDE H 1 2 KAY JARDINE 1995-96 RANGERS H 1 2 McDONALD (ROD) MacDONALD (BILLY) 1996-97 FALKIRK A 0 1 EVANS TURNER 1997-98 STIRLING ALBION A 2 2 MacDONALD (BILLY) MILNE 1998-99 ARBROATH A 2 1 McKEOWN McKENZIE KENNEDY 2000-01 QUEEN OF THE SOUTH H 0 2 DOCHERTY McNALLY HARDIE 2004-05 AIRDRIE UNITED A 2 4 MURRAY (GRANT) WILKINSON 2011-12 BERWICK RANGERS H 1 3 PATON BALATONI 2013-14 DUNDEE UNITED A 1 4 BALATONI BANNIGAN 2019-20 AYR UNTED H 2 3 GORDON BANNIGAN I could have added that Steve Pittman was given 3 red cards for foul and abusive language towards the ref at the end of the PT v Rangers game on 3/2/1996 mentioned above. He got an 8-match ban. He wasn't even a sub for that match! McDonald was booked at h-t because Rangers fans had complained to the police that they had seen him bless himself either when he scored (35 mins) or when walking off at h-t. The police had taken no further action but the ref did and booked him. Later in the match MacDonald slid in to tackle Brown (who saw it coming). No contact was made but the ref booked him and off he went. That's why there was total confusion at the time. No-one knew he had already been booked. The press reported that the ref admitted he had not given Gascoigne a second yellow (for any number of incidents elbowing off players) because he feared it would cause crowd trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Rubble Posted September 1, 2019 Report Share Posted September 1, 2019 2 minutes ago, a f kincaid said: I could have added that Steve Pittman was given 3 red cards for foul and abusive language towards the ref at the end of the PT v Rangers game on 3/2/1996 mentioned above. He got an 8-match ban. He wasn't even a sub for that match! McDonald was booked at h-t because Rangers fans had complained to the police that they had seen him bless himself either when he scored (35 mins) or when walking off at h-t. The police had taken no further action but the ref did and booked him. Later in the match MacDonald slid in to tackle Brown (who saw it coming). No contact was made but the ref booked him and off he went. That's why there was total confusion at the time. No-one knew he had already been booked. The press reported that the ref admitted he had not given Gascoigne a second yellow (for any number of incidents elbowing off players) because he feared it would cause crowd trouble. Also remember that Ferguson refused to card Gascoigne for celebrating off the field at the City end for one of the goals. He admitted words to the effect that 'it would have been inappropriate to card a player after such an exceptional goal.' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semi Nurainen Posted September 1, 2019 Report Share Posted September 1, 2019 3 hours ago, javeajag said: The generalisation is being made that ‘ managers ‘ all do this and that .... they don’t and managers don’t let players pick the team I'll say two words: white envelopes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted September 1, 2019 Report Share Posted September 1, 2019 12 minutes ago, Semi Nurainen said: I'll say two words: white envelopes. Six words : The players didn’t pick the team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semi Nurainen Posted September 1, 2019 Report Share Posted September 1, 2019 (edited) Which made Caldwell look like the utter clown he is for asking in the first place. 'I'm asking you players to tell me who should be in the team, but in order to maintain the veneer of authority, I am going to pay absolutely no attention to your responses.' Even that was a plagiarism on someone else's equally pathetic attempt to play mind games. I'll see your six words raise you fourteen - bottom of the league with 1 point, 6 goals shipped in 2 games to mid table no hopers. Fortunately, it's only a matter of time now ... Edited September 1, 2019 by Semi Nurainen espit d'escalier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly Posted September 1, 2019 Report Share Posted September 1, 2019 5 minutes ago, Semi Nurainen said: Which made Caldwell look like the utter clown he is for asking in the first place. 'I'm asking you players to tell me who should be in the team, but in order to maintain the veneer of authority, I am going to pay absolutely no attention to your responses.' Even that was a plagiarism on someone else's equally pathetic attempt to play mind games. I'll see your six words raise you fourteen - bottom of the league with 1 point, 6 goals shipped in 2 games to mid table no hopers. Fortunately, it's only a matter of time now ... I don’t want to be pedantic, but for football managers, even Pep or Klop, it is always only a matter of time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted September 1, 2019 Report Share Posted September 1, 2019 3 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said: I don’t want to be pedantic, but for football managers, even Pep or Klop, it is always only a matter of time Pretty sure Pep and Klopp will decide themselves when they’ll leave , Caldwell won’t be given that luxury and nor should he be , he should be judged on success and improvement , he’s achieved neither . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
partickthedog Posted September 1, 2019 Report Share Posted September 1, 2019 4 hours ago, Pinhead said: No wonder they were sent off if we started with 13 players lol Good spot. I have now edited the original, but given you the credit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
partickthedog Posted September 1, 2019 Report Share Posted September 1, 2019 5 hours ago, Ancipital said: More recently away at Tannadice, Conrad Balatoni and ...er... Stuart Bannigan Indeed, I remember it well now, thank you. That was the day when I realised that Andy Robertson was some player! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
partickthedog Posted September 1, 2019 Report Share Posted September 1, 2019 4 hours ago, a f kincaid said: Here's a list of all known 1st team matches with 2 or more sendings off... 1977-78 CELTIC H 0 4 McADAM HOUSTON 1983-84 GREENOCK MORTON A 2 1 McDONALD JARDINE 1983-84 CLYDE H 1 2 KAY JARDINE 1995-96 RANGERS H 1 2 McDONALD (ROD) MacDONALD (BILLY) 1996-97 FALKIRK A 0 1 EVANS TURNER 1997-98 STIRLING ALBION A 2 2 MacDONALD (BILLY) MILNE 1998-99 ARBROATH A 2 1 McKEOWN McKENZIE KENNEDY 2000-01 QUEEN OF THE SOUTH H 0 2 DOCHERTY McNALLY HARDIE 2004-05 AIRDRIE UNITED A 2 4 MURRAY (GRANT) WILKINSON 2011-12 BERWICK RANGERS H 1 3 PATON BALATONI 2013-14 DUNDEE UNITED A 1 4 BALATONI BANNIGAN 2019-20 AYR UNTED H 2 3 GORDON BANNIGAN That's brilliant, AFK. The Dundee United game came back to mind fairly quickly, but I had completely forgotten how we totally lost the plot against Berwick Rangers, as the hero of Ibrox Damon Gray returned to haunt us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebiglemon Posted September 1, 2019 Report Share Posted September 1, 2019 5 hours ago, a f kincaid said: Here's a list of all known 1st team matches with 2 or more sendings off... 1977-78 CELTIC H 0 4 McADAM HOUSTON 1983-84 GREENOCK MORTON A 2 1 McDONALD JARDINE 1983-84 CLYDE H 1 2 KAY JARDINE 1995-96 RANGERS H 1 2 McDONALD (ROD) MacDONALD (BILLY) 1996-97 FALKIRK A 0 1 EVANS TURNER 1997-98 STIRLING ALBION A 2 2 MacDONALD (BILLY) MILNE 1998-99 ARBROATH A 2 1 McKEOWN McKENZIE KENNEDY 2000-01 QUEEN OF THE SOUTH H 0 2 DOCHERTY McNALLY HARDIE 2004-05 AIRDRIE UNITED A 2 4 MURRAY (GRANT) WILKINSON 2011-12 BERWICK RANGERS H 1 3 PATON BALATONI 2013-14 DUNDEE UNITED A 1 4 BALATONI BANNIGAN 2019-20 AYR UNTED H 2 3 GORDON BANNIGAN Wilkinson?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld Jag Posted September 1, 2019 Report Share Posted September 1, 2019 3 minutes ago, thebiglemon said: Wilkinson?? On loan from Stoke,i think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClydebankJag Posted September 1, 2019 Report Share Posted September 1, 2019 Andy Wilkinson, young defender on loan from Stoke. Went into play a few seasons in the EPL but had to give up the game after suffering a head injury Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted September 1, 2019 Report Share Posted September 1, 2019 7 hours ago, Norgethistle said: The players feared him but respected him. Ferguson could always rely on his captain and a few others to act as that buffer This is true. Javeajag is making a fair point about managers who don't listen to players just picked the wrong example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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